Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Miss M McIlveen): I welcome our witnesses. Nigel, will you please introduce yourself and the other witnesses? After an opening statement, members will follow up with questions.

Mr Nigel Frith (Drumragh Integrated College): Thank you very much. First, welcome once again to Drumragh Integrated College. We are delighted that you have gone to the trouble of coming down to see us today. I am slightly disappointed at the turnout, and we would welcome an opportunity, if possible, to follow up on another occasion. Nevertheless, we are delighted that you are here. We look forward to sharing lunch with you, and there is the offer of a tour this afternoon. We hope that as many as possible will take advantage of that.

The primary purpose of our presentation is to give the students a voice and to let you hear from young people directly. I am delighted to introduce to you to Zara Hemphill, who is already a politician and is campaigning to join the UK Youth Parliament. She may tell you more about that in a moment. Cara Monaghan is our head girl, and Caen Fahy is our head boy. I suggest that each of them speaks, starting with Caen, followed by Cara and then Zara. I will follow up at the end, if that is OK.

Mr Caen Fahy (Drumragh Integrated College): Hello, and welcome to Drumragh. I have been asked to speak about integration, which has been a major influence on my life and moulded the student and individual I am today. I feel privileged to have been at integrated schools for the entirety of my education. Throughout the years, I have had friends in Catholic and Protestant schools. This, in itself, has raised my awareness of why Drumragh is different. Today, there is still hostility between schools, which I see daily. My point is that this hostility — this judgement — does not exist in Drumragh. Even today, seven years on, I may not know the religious and political beliefs of students in my year.

President Obama shone the global spotlight on integration during the G8 summit. Along with others from Drumragh, I was lucky enough to attend his Waterfront Hall speech. Obama discussed how ending segregated schooling in Northern Ireland was essential for lasting peace. President Obama is not naive; nor am I. Supporters of integrated education know that, by itself, it cannot cure all our troubles, but it is a step forward that we need to take. The demand for integrated education is here, now more than ever before, and poll after poll tells us so. Yet so many students are not given the opportunity to attend an integrated school, which I do not think is fair. Integrated education was addressed in the Good Friday Agreement and described as key to peace in the future. I will leave Drumragh at the end of this year with something that other students may not have, namely a facet of understanding and open-mindedness.

A recent student of ours, Shauna Mulligan, spoke at the open day last month. Shauna, who had recently graduated from university in multicultural London, discussed how integration had benefited her outside school. She specifically mentioned job opportunities. When asked how she would mix with different religions and cultures, her answer was simple: integration, which meant that she had mixed every day, had prepared her more than anything else could. In my opinion, the message is clear: integrated education heals division; integrated education is fair and considerate; integrated education encourages people to achieve their ambitions. The question I ask is this: can the same be said for shared education? Can it achieve what integrated education can achieve?

Ms Cara Monaghan (Drumragh Integrated College): Good morning. I am the head girl at Drumragh and am lucky enough to have been in integrated education for my entire academic life. I describe myself as lucky because I feel that integration provides the perfect backdrop for learning, as all students are supported and allowed to prosper, regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion or ability.

I understand the concept of shared education and admire the aim of bringing people together and breaking down the potent barriers in our education system and in our day-to-day lives here in Northern Ireland. Shared education gives two schools a chance to interact in a way that they would not otherwise do. People are judged by their character, interests and hobbies rather than by the uniform that they wear. However, I see weaknesses in shared education that do not exist in integrated education. Schools are still separated by building, religion and uniform. Schools may partake in shared education one school day a week, but what about the other four days? They still experience a segregated learning environment, mixing only with their own religion. One day a week is not enough to overcome the divide between communities. In integrated education, this divide does not exist. For five days a week, everyone works and learns together, wearing the same uniform. Segregation is a word that has no place in a school like Drumragh. Every ability is catered for, from those with special needs right through to academically highly gifted students.

I believe that our community and civic leaders should be more vocal in their support for integrated education, which is, I feel, the most obvious solution to bringing our polarised communities together. When I was at primary school, the 11-plus test was compulsory, and I got an A. When this comes up in conversation, I am asked why, if I had the ability, I did not go to a grammar school instead of Drumragh. First, I am from a mixed marriage family and feel that, having experienced integrated education from the age of four, I would have found it difficult to settle in an environment made up of predominantly one religion. More importantly, I feel that the education that I have received here at Drumragh surpasses anything I could have learned in a grammar school. Drumragh has taught me to be accepting of everyone.

This is my last year at Drumragh, unfortunately, but not my last year in integrated education. For many students, university is their first experience of an educational or social environment with different religions and ethnicities. I have applied for a course in London, which has been described as the most multicultural city in the world. People from segregated schools may find it difficult to settle in such a vibrant and diverse city, having never experienced anything like it before, but I feel that my time in the integrated sector has more than prepared me for this transition.

Recently, a good friend of mine moved from a local grammar school to Drumragh to complete her A levels. I asked her what positive differences she saw between her old school and Drumragh. Immediately, she mentioned the atmosphere — how everyone was so friendly and welcoming — and how easy it was for her to settle in. She talked of how the year group mixed as a whole rather than separating into small groups, as was the case in her old school. She went on to say that the student-teacher relationship here, with mutual respect between staff and students, was a world apart from that in grammar school, where there was an "us and them" mentality. She felt that this was what made our environment so appropriate for learning.

Last week, here in our school, she experienced her first ever Ash Wednesday service. She said that it was lovely that we managed to include the whole school in a traditionally Catholic day, crediting how it was explained that those who wanted to receive ashes were welcome to do so but those who did not could use the service as a time to reflect. I do not get ashes, but I use the service as a perfect example of how the whole school comes together to respect and celebrate everybody's differences.

Integration has sculpted me into the individual I am today. One day, I hope to teach the strong values that I have been taught at Drumragh to my children. Instead of clinging to the hatred and segregation of the past, we need to look forward to a brighter and more united future. I feel that quality shared and integrated education will play a key role in how successful this future could be.

Ms Zara Hemphill (Drumragh Integrated College): I am a sixth form student. Integration has always played a major role in my life. As I was brought up in a mixed marriage family, I have always been aware of and known how to respect different cultures and beliefs.

Although I was brought up a Roman Catholic and attended a Catholic maintained primary school because there was no local integrated primary school that I had access to, it was in my primary education that I became aware of and learned about different prejudices and views towards different religions and beliefs. The fact that my primary school was located in a rural village meant that few or none of the other children had ever come into contact or mixed with people from different religions or backgrounds. Looking back, I feel that this left those primary-school children at a disadvantage because they did not know how to interact with people who were in some way different from them.

Even though we had shared education trips and activities with the local Protestant school, often the two schools did not mix or work with each other simply because most of the children did not want to mix with someone from a different religious faith. This often left me in a very awkward situation as I had family and friends in both schools. I did not know how to respond to the situation. It seemed as though, if I mixed with a Protestant primary school, there would be a slagging off from my classmates, and, if I did not mix with the other primary school, I would be annoyed at myself for not communicating with those whom I was friends with. This was an extremely confusing time for an 11-year-old. I did not understand why I could not mix with both schools without anything being said or any remarks being made.

Fortunately, here at Drumragh, you can mix with anyone, and no one passes judgement on who you are friends with and who you are not. Everyone here is so accepting, which makes the college atmosphere so calm and relaxing and the school such an enjoyable environment to learn in. As we are all constantly mixing and working with pupils and teachers from different backgrounds, you do not pay any attention to what religion they are, the colour of their skin, how they look or what type of background they come from. Instead of paying attention to the exterior of the person, you are paying attention to the person on the inside, which is what truly matters. Drumragh is like a huge family where you can fully accept everyone, no matter what. The school's motto, "Excellence for Everyone", really sums up what integration means to me. It means that the same standard is for everyone, and that standard is excellence. I love how everyone is treated so equally here. That is so welcoming and refreshing as you are assured that you can truly be yourself and still be accepted.

Being a pupil of Drumragh has truly benefited me and prepared me for life when I leave school. Receiving integrated education for the past six years has enabled me to be confident to mix with anyone from any social group and background. It does not faze me at all. The fact that I grew up in an environment where everyone is equal and treated exactly the same gives me great comfort and reassurance. I believe that integrated education is the only way forward for Northern Ireland and will bring all communities together so that we can all live in peaceful coexistence. Someone needs to take the first step forward in integrated education. Here at Drumragh, we are doing that together.

Mr Frith: There are a few points that I would like to make, but I am uncomfortably aware that I have just been completely upstaged and that there is no effective way of following what you have just heard. However, these are the points that I would like to make. My submission to you began with a quotation from Dr Martin Luther King. Students at Drumragh know that rarely a month goes by without my quoting him from this stage in an assembly. This is the one that I would like to quote for you this morning:

Whether we are talking about integrated or shared education, the starting point for me is whether our education system is teaching children to walk the earth like brothers. Yes, we need academic excellence and results matter — I can talk with pride about the academic results achieved in this school — but it has to be much more than that. The point of a school and an education system is very much the young person, not just the results that they leave the school with. I am talking about seeing the wood as well as the trees — the big picture and the vision. For me, that has to be that the school that a child goes to plays a central role in transforming their mind, heart and values and that the ripple effect of that leads to a better Northern Ireland.

The debate is whether that should be achieved through quality shared or quality integrated education. I think that either should be encouraged and facilitated. You will not hear me say that I think that shared education is a terrible thing. In fact, I do not particularly like the gap between the shared education lobby and the integrated education lobby. I want to be clear on this: integrated education and shared education are two distinct things. Last May, Judge Treacy made that very clear and reaffirmed the fact that the integrated sector is definitively that: the way that it is run, and even the way that the board of governors operates, is distinctively integrated. He said clearly that a school either is or is not an integrated school.

Shared education, where it is of quality, should also be facilitated and encouraged. In my mind, I am moving towards a continuum. Whether it is integrated or shared education, the continuum includes, at one end, the Rolls Royce impact and, at the other end, the wheelbarrow impact. Whether you are looking at a shared education project or an integrated school, the Rolls Royce end says that whatever is happening is having a transformational impact on the lives, values and attitudes of the children experiencing the project or school. Where it is of quality, it should be encouraged and facilitated.

Somewhere in all of this is my favourite academic theory, which is called the contact theory. It is my favourite because it is very simple and powerful. It simply says that the more time young people spend in contact with each other, the more likely there will be a meaningful impact. The project that Zara described to you had relatively little impact, in her opinion, because, I am guessing, there was relatively little contact. Although what happened between the children could be called shared education and thus tick a box, the limited contact involved suggests that it was perhaps down towards the wheelbarrow end. Therefore, in Zara's evaluation, it had relatively little impact on the lives of the children who took part.

Integration achieves everything that I am describing, as Cara said, by having the children in one uniform and in one school five days a week. Everything that they go through together is together. Even the Ash Wednesday service and traditionally separated events are integrated here in one way or another. We do not have separate events for different members of the community. We never send children off to another room and say, "Forgive us, but you are not part of this particular event or ceremony." We do it together so that mutual respect and understanding emerge very naturally.

One of the most integrated environments in the entire school is the football ground at lunchtime, when children naturally decide that they want a game of football and choose for themselves who they like and who they want to be friends with. There is something very natural and organic taking place there. The youngsters here are as human as anybody else, and we occasionally have the odd manning up, rolling up of sleeves and fisticuffs, but it is never over religion or background. It might be over a bad tackle in a game of football. It might be because a row on 'Facebook' the previous night about whose boyfriend is whose rolls into school the next day — welcome to the world of young people — but it is not over religious difference.

As we speak, they are sitting beside each other in class in this building and learning that those barriers do not matter. They are encouraged to have their own ethos, background and values. Nothing is watered down or swept under the carpet. Crucially, there is never an attempt to say that we are all the same — in fact, quite the opposite. What we are saying here through, for example, the Ash Wednesday service that was described for you, is "Yes, we are different, so respect it. Be who you are, and respect each other's differences actively and openly".

The integrated sector does account for approximately 7% of Northern Ireland's school population. Some people are saying, "That is not very much, is it?". Actually, it is a phenomenal achievement bearing in mind that most of that was achieved through parent power. If, traditionally and historically, over the past 30 years, there had been the kind of backing for the integrated sector that is currently being put into shared education, I think we would be looking at a phenomenally different statistic from the 7% we are looking at today.

To ensure the effectiveness and impact of shared and integrated education, I would like to explore for a moment some of the requirements that I think could make it live and real. The first is that, in my opinion, the new draft shared education Bill should sit alongside the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989, and they should be seen as being equally important. The reason is that if we are achieving this transformational impact on the lives of young people either through shared or integrated education, we should be saying, through our funding, evaluation and statutory representation at every single level, that either is to be supported, encouraged and facilitated regardless, if it is achieving the impact we are looking for.

I think that shared and integrated education should be placed on the continuum that I was describing earlier and supported, or not, depending on, first, whether they achieve the Rolls Royce impact and, secondly, whether the reasons for undertaking it are the right ones. In other words, we should not allow ourselves to be distracted by whether funding is available. If shared education funding is for four years, the big question, and the deep intake of breath, after the four years is going to be, "What now?" The hope of course will be that something lasting will roll forward. Brian and his colleague this morning were inspirational in saying that, without funding, they still believe in the vision of shared education. That was brilliant. My hope would be that we will see a lot more of that. The irony is that they deserve funding because that is their attitude and approach.

We need to know that whatever is going on is sustainable. Transformation takes time. I suggest that four years will not be enough to see anything except the smallest of buds and shoots appearing above the ground. If we are talking about something to have effect, it will take more than four years. Crucially, in the world in which we live, whatever happens has to offer value for money. Ironically, in any community, integrated education is one of the cheapest and most cost-effective ways to have the impact that I am talking about on the lives of young people.

Integrated schools should be able to receive funding in the same way that shared education projects can. The current approach bothers me a little bit; the requirement that it must be between at least two schools. I suggest that we should be able to bid for funding and receive it for achieving exactly the same goals under one roof as we would if we were co-operating with another school to that end.

It would be a step forward if schools were offered the choice of either opting into a shared education project or considering the possibility of transforming to become an integrated school. Again, if they were to be given equal weighting, and schools were to explore choice on the basis where they were presented as equally important options, equally live, equally viable and equally supported, even down to the funding available, I think we would be taking quite a dramatic step forward. Picking up on Trevor's comments earlier, I would be interested to know which option parents would actually want within their local community.

I also think that NICIE should be involved, as a vital experienced voice, which indeed should be a more statutory one, in any of these debates. It seems to me that if you are giving the balance of power in any educational debate to the education and library boards, soon to be one authority, and CCMS, you are essentially giving it to the bodies that have greased the wheels of the system that we have seen for years. I am not sure why we should expect anything particularly different if we are asking them to move forward into the future. It does seem to me that a greater bringing to the table of all the relevant bodies, including NICIE, would generate a more healthy debate and a greater chance of something changing for the better. I think that both models should be considered within area planning. Both should have clear and equal statutory voices on the new education authority. A lot more work needs to be done in each community to help parents to understand the choices available to them. I believe fundamentally that historical inertia and the status quo need to be challenged or I fear that nothing much will change.

I would like to finish with the concluding paragraph of my submission to you. It reads like this:

— to me anyway —

Thanks very much.

The Chairperson (Miss M McIlveen): Thank you very much for your presentation. Can I particularly commend your students for their words this morning? We really appreciate that and the level of passion you have brought to it. Thank you very much.

Nigel, you mentioned the gap between the lobbies for shared and integrated education. They are somewhat divided over the priorities within both, whether it be educational attainment over societal benefits and reconciliation. What is your view with regard to the integrated sector? Is it educational attainment versus community reconciliation or are they both equally important?

Mr Frith: I am going to say that they are equally important, but I would be interested to know what our student speakers think on that as well. Guys, which is more important: educational attainment or the more personal impact of integration?

Mr Fahy: I agree that they are probably equal. They are both major contributors to the school as a whole.

Ms Monaghan: I do not think that you can call yourself a success story if you come out with no qualifications, but, in coming together as one school, they are equally important.

Ms Hemphill: I believe that they are equally important too. You need both in order to succeed. One is not more important.

Mr Frith: We put as much work into educational attainment in this school as we do into the business of integration. I will give you a couple of examples. We have live tracking and monitoring systems. We have mentoring systems to help children achieve their best and we use the phrase "personal best". This is not an ethos where you either achieve an A or you have failed: this is an ethos where if you were predicted to get an E in one of your GCSE courses and you come out with a D, well, that is cause for celebration because you have exceeded your personal best. We take that very seriously.

We have abandoned the traditional concept of study leave. When our children finish on the Friday with their traditional timetable, the irony is that we are saying, "Excellent. Well done. We will see you on Monday". When they come back in on Monday morning, the majority of them are coming to a whole new timetable of revision classes. Teachers work with them until the day before or even sometimes the very day of the exam and continue to teach.

These are just small examples of ways in which we take educational attainment very seriously. Our results speak for themselves. They are significantly above the Northern Ireland average for non-selective schools. The grammar school results are in a different ballpark. Obviously, if you feed something in at one end, do not be surprised at what you get out at the other. For an all-ability ethos, our exam results are high. It is because we balance both priorities very clearly and very seriously.

The Chairperson (Miss M McIlveen): What collaboration do you have with other schools in the area?

Mr Frith: First, we are an active member of the Omagh learning community and an equal partner with eight other schools in the area. The majority are within Omagh itself. St John's Business and Enterprise College, Dromore, and Dean Maguirc College in Carrickmore are part of the community as well. At principal level, we collaborate every month. The primary goal is to ensure that students can access the courses that they need. If we cannot provide the full range of courses here, they head off to one of the other schools. At a very daily level, what that literally means is taxis pulling up at the front door, students heading off to other schools and coming back when the lesson is over.

While that seems like a very simple outcome, it actually takes quite a lot of planning to get around the practicalities, as I am sure you are aware. However, we also collaborate in other ways; the careers teachers work closely together, and the special needs coordinators have a level of collaboration.

I was telling Robin earlier that, in the autumn — in October — we had a joint careers day for the teachers from all of the member schools. As all the schools came together, that had tremendous pulling power for employers across Northern Ireland, who came down to join the conference. The point of the conference was to make sure that the careers advice that we give is relevant, up to date and reflects the modern world, because a school can become a kind of a bubble and you can be offering well-meaning advice but missing the fact that you are not aware of how the world out there is changing and shaping itself around us.

A number of the contributors were employers, including local companies and PricewaterhouseCoopers. They talked about entrance requirements and the fact that they employ English graduates, which challenged my stereotypical understanding of PwC as a company.

There is a range of levels of collaboration within the learning community. We also work with local primary schools. Our vision at the moment is to develop stronger links with three in particular. There is the integrated primary school here in Omagh, and the vision is that it is going to move in next door to us within the next three or four years, so that generates all sorts of new possibilities. There is also Gibson Primary School and Omagh County Primary School, so our primary liaison work at the moment is directed primarily towards those three, but we are open to working with other primary schools as well, and, indeed, we have students from other collaborative schools coming in here as well. It is not just our students going elsewhere.

Mrs Overend: I commend you all for your presentations this morning. I was really impressed, so thank you very much. In fact, when I indicated my question, you answered it before you finished. Some previous witnesses to Committee talked about how other schools in other sectors have changed over the years and do not have just one religion in them. Are you aware of this or do you feel that the sectors need to be recast? Furthermore, what do you feel that you do differently to, say, a controlled school that already has a mix of religions in it?

Mr Frith: It is possible that there are some schools that are so genuinely mixed that they are already three quarters of the way to being integrated, and I commend them for that.

Mrs Overend: What do you mean three quarters of the way to integrated? Surely they are integrated then, in all but name.

Mr Frith: Let me unpack that a little bit. It is a good question. Judge Treacy was interested in that question and it became one of the key points he ruled on in the end.

To go back to the experience of being in court and listening to Judge Treacy; there was a moment during the court case when the Department's barrister said, "My Lord, we are interpreting article 64 of the 1989 Order to mean the education together at school of Protestant and Catholic children. My Lord, there are many schools across the Province that are doing just that and they are outside of the integrated sector". Judge Treacy said, "Oh yeah; I know of schools all across Northern Ireland. There are schools here in Belfast that are doing that. That is great". At that moment, I thought, "OK; well, we're going to lose the case". In his final ruling, he actually wrote, "On first appearance, it would look as though shared education can fulfil article 64 of the 1989 Order. However, upon closer inspection...", and he then went on to outline his findings.

One of them was that if you are a controlled school by design you are required to have a particular ethos in the way you operate, the way you are governed and the way you run. While you may be welcoming children from another background or sector of the community into your school by design, you are not going to be as equal as one sector, which is the integrated sector. He said that the integrated sector was the only one that he could see that, by design, from the very beginning, grass-roots up, even to the way that it is governed, is set up to be completely equal to every single child and every single background.

In practice, that means that we balance our intake. There is a very healthy balance of Catholic, Protestant and those who, for whatever reason, designate themselves as other. It is not a minority of one or the other. You are walking around in a school community where the numbers are fairly well balanced and there is that sense of equality, even if you are aware of other children's backgrounds.

There is also the fact that, given the way we operate, there is a deliberate bias and emphasis on things being done with equality to all. That can extend into the religious education curriculum, and staff here are acutely aware that the delivery of the curriculum has to be in a completely balanced way because every single background and culture is represented in the classroom. It is the same with history. Brenda, our head of history, is sitting behind me, and I imagine that she wishes she could chip in at this point. History is delivered here in a very thoughtful and very strategic way, and it is deliberately designed to encourage youngsters to embrace history, learn the lessons of history and explore the questions that emerge from it, along with giving them a range of skills that will prepare them for adult life.

It is the same in our assemblies. The example of Ash Wednesday was quoted. Because of the emphasis on absolute equality and choice here, we have the whole school community in the school hall and we go through those experiences together. To choose another example; Remembrance Day is often seen as being primarily a Protestant time of year. Here, we run an education programme through form teachers on personal development in the run-up to Remembrance Day, and we establish the principle that we all surely regret that life was lost through conflict and war, but the wearing of a poppy is down to individual choice. Children here either wear a poppy or do not. It is entirely their choice. There is an overriding emphasis on delivering things with absolute equality that, I think, often makes the integrated experience different. Let me say this again: if there is a shared education experience that offers the same, it is to be applauded, encouraged and supported in exactly the same way as I believe integrated education should be.

Mrs Overend: I appreciate that. Thank you very much. There are areas where the community is not equal in numbers. In an ideal world, there will be integrated schools. If that is the ideal scenario but the population is not balanced, how would you fix that?

Mr Frith: We have that here.

Mrs Overend: There are other schools available. I know that you have equal numbers here, but, if all the schools were to be integrated, how would you fix that?

Mr Frith: I will come to that. I was really saying that the community mix of Omagh and Strabane is predominantly Catholic, and so we do deal with the challenges of getting a reasonable balance in this school. The real answer to your question is that I do not think that the key defining factor in deciding whether a school is integrated or not should be its religious balance.

Mrs Overend: You said that you start off with —

Mr Frith: You aim for it, and we do that year-on-year. Let us say that we are talking about a rural area; we could use Castlederg as an example. People there are talking about their one remaining post-primary school and deciding whether to transform it to integrated status. I do not think that what the community mix will be if they do that, or not, should define that decision for them. It should be about what the school will do once the children are through the door. That is what decides whether it calls itself integrated. It is about the way it operates and, as I described earlier, the practice in the classroom and beyond it. It is the practice that defines integration, not religious balance.

I believe, for example, that the only post-primary school in a rural area and with a heavy bias towards one side of the community could still be legitimately and effectively integrated. I would want to know what that school is doing for the children who make up its population.

Mrs Overend: Thank you; I appreciate that.

Mr Lunn: I do not need to ask you questions; every question I might have asked, you have answered, all four of you, in your presentation. I will just say this: I was quite proud of the three pupils; you did so well. I am sure you were too, Nigel.

Mr Frith: I was.

Mr Lunn: You are absolutely right in saying that you were completely upstaged.

Mr Frith: I know.

Mr Lunn: You dealt with it manfully. Honestly, I do not have any questions. Not to be political, but I think that it is more important that others on the Committee — and it is a pity that not more of them are here — ask you questions. I am a long-term convert. I will just ask you one thing about sporting activities. Do you find that there is a reasonable crossover between the two traditions in the sports that you play?

Mr Frith: Yes, there is.

Mr Lunn: Am I right in thinking that you won a schools' Gaelic championship at some level in recent years?

Mr Frith: We did.

Mr Lunn: What was it?

Mr Frith: It was the McKee Cup. It was an integrated schools split. Yes, we are proud to say that we are the winners, and I am grateful to you for bringing it up. Thank you.

Mr Lunn: I bring it up at every opportunity. It was relayed to me by a Sinn Féin Member during a debate in Stormont. I was challenged to disavow the notion that integrated schools played only football and rugby, and somebody passed me a note saying that Drumragh was the holder of that Gaelic cup. Fair play to you. I do not know if you played in it, Caen.

Mr Fahy: Yes, I did. I play a number of sports.

Mr Lunn: I have nothing but praise for you. Keep up the good work.

Mr Frith: I wonder if we could put your question to our three student speakers. What have you seen of sport and the balance of sports in the school?

Ms Monaghan: Up until fifth year, PE is a compulsory subject. You do at least two periods of PE a week. Throughout the year we took part in netball, hockey, Gaelic and gymnastics. I was part of a good few school teams. There are integrated competitions for a range of sports, and we are quite successful. I did not hear any uproar about, say, hockey being a predominantly Protestant sport, or Gaelic being a Catholic sport. Everybody participated, and there were no problems. That is probably down to the ethos of the school. Nobody has a problem with people of different religions and political views playing together.

Ms Hemphill: I agree with Cara. PE was more exciting, because you got to try different sports. I went to a Catholic primary school, so I would never have been introduced to the likes of hockey or rugby. It was through PE that I learnt how to play those different sports. It was exciting to experience sports that I would not normally have been able to experience.

Mr Lunn: Do you play rugby?

Ms Hemphill: The girls play tag-rugby.

Mr Fahy: In my year, and probably in many other years, the goal is to win. We formed the best team for every sport; Catholic or Protestant does not matter. Maybe Catholics are better at Gaelic, but then some are better at hockey, and each team had their best players. It was always about getting the best team to win whatever the sport. It is really good to play loads of different sports throughout the year, rather than playing the same one all year. You get to use different skills.

Mr Frith: That answers it. We deliberately run a wide range of sports and make sure that sports that could be construed as being linked to one community are included in the school experience. Personally, I love it when I see a little chap pottering on his way home in the afternoon. The parents ask: "What have you been doing today?". If he says, "I do Gaelic on a Tuesday and rugby on a Thursday", that is beautiful. That answers the question, I think.

Mr Newton: Like Trevor, I do not have any specific questions on integrated education, but I would like to pay tribute to the students for the presentation. I fear for our political futures if Zara is elected to the UK Youth Parliament and embraces politics as a career. I wish you every success in whatever academic route you take.

The Chairperson (Miss M McIlveen): I thank you for your presentation and echo the comments of members. You did extremely well this morning. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

Mr Frith: Thank you for the opportunity.