Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): I welcome Mr Tom Evans, the deputy director of strategy in the European and employment relations division of the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL). Thank you very much for coming back following on from last week's session. Over to you.

Mr Tom Evans (Department for Employment and Learning): The Committee asked for clarification on two regulations: regulation 12 and regulation 18. In correspondence, there was a query on regulation 13, so we have provided some clarification on that. Do you want me to go through each of them?

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): Could you go through them one at a time, Tom?

Mr Evans: Yes. Regulation 12 concerns the Paternity and Adoption Leave (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015. Those regulations provide new rights to adoption leave to local authority foster parents who are prospective adopters who have been notified that a child is to be placed with them. They provide new rights to paternity leave to the spouse, civil partner or partner of such a person. It amends the definition of "matched for adoption" and introduces a definition of "placed for adoption" in the main regulations dealing with paternity and adoption leave entitlement.

The definitions deal with situations in which an authority places a child with an approved foster parent with a view to that person potentially adopting the child. That will give foster parents who are in the process of adopting a child access to the leave and pay entitlement as soon as a child is placed with them. As I said, it will give them equal rights under the shared parental leave and pay arrangements. That means that they will not have to wait for the formal adoption process to reach a more advanced stage, giving the placement a better foundation for success and putting the interests of the child very much at the heart of it.

It has been noted that the Department is now considering the possibility of amalgamating the set of regulations in the other series, which is the Paternity and Adoption Leave (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015. When this was being taken forward in GB, that came up as an issue, so there were the amendment regulations, which we hope to amend because they have the same objective. Producing a single consolidated regulation will encourage a more efficient and consistent approach, and it will be easier to follow for employers and the people who avail themselves of those rights.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): Bronwyn, you had concerns about that regulation.

Ms McGahan: I am content.

Mr Ramsey: I have a quick question, Chair. Tom, you are very welcome again. Previously, when other legislation was coming through, Kinship Care was highlighted as an organisation that represents and reflects a large number of carers across Northern Ireland. Trying to establish legislative recognition for such carers is an issue. Is there any scope for that this time round?

Mr Evans: As I said, we have looked at that matter and talked to the Department for Social Development (DSD) about it, and, within the scope of this legislation, it is not possible. It would have to be taken forward on a joint basis with DSD. This is a about a very particular set of people who are approved adopters. It is better that I say at this stage that there is not the scope for that in this legislation.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): That was covered before.

An explanation has been provided on the SL1 for the Paternity and Adoption Leave (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015. Point 12 in annex A of your pack sets out the main impact of the regulations. The statutory rule will be subject to confirmatory resolution. Are members content with the proposal for this statutory rule?

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): The next query was to do with social security contributions and benefits.

Mr Evans: I had intended to move on to regulation 18 on surrogacy parental orders.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): Go ahead.

Mr Evans: The focus of these regulations is parental order cases. We have previously explained what parental order cases are. A parental order transfers legal rights from a birth mother to a couple in circumstances in which a surrogate has a child and one of the parents is genetically related to that child. The purpose of these regulations is to ensure that parents whose babies are born via such an arrangement can access statutory paternity pay, statutory adoption pay and statutory shared parental leave pay. Those general entitlements are set out in the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992. That is the issue that you referred to, Chair.

Part XIIZA of that Act provides for the entitlement of statutory paternity pay, Part XIIZB provides for entitlement to statutory adoption pay, and Part 12ZC, inserted by the Work and Families Act (Northern Ireland) 2015, provides for entitlement to statutory shared parental pay. Without those regulations, parents in those surrogate arrangements would not be able to access the relevant entitlements. Again, this is about providing a level playing field for people in a surrogacy situation. To clarify: these regulations also apply to provisions in regulations 9, 10, 11 and 21, which refer to it. It is a package of measures to deal in an effective and responsive way with children who are born via a surrogacy arrangement.

Ms McGahan: Will these Parts enhance the parental order?

Mr Evans: Yes. It will mean that such parents are in the same position as a couple who have a child and are availing themselves of shared parental leave and pay. It applies in exactly the same way to them so that there is no hierarchy; they are the same as people who are adopting children, people who have a child born through surrogacy or couples — a man and a woman or a same-sex couple — who are adopting or have a child. The same shared parental leave and pay arrangements apply, and that is what the regulation does.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): The SL1 is the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 (Application of Parts 12ZA, 12ZB and 12ZC to Parental Order Cases) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015. Point 18 of your pack sets out the main impact of the regulations. The statutory rule is subject to confirmatory resolution. Are members content with the proposals for this statutory rule?

Mr Evans: I want to provide further clarification on regulation 13. When we were here with you last week, there were so many regulations that we probably had one of those blank moments when a query was raised. Regulation 13 deals with rights during and after shared parental leave, whether through birth or adoption. Parental leave is already an established and separate stand-alone entitlement, distinct from the new entitlement to shared parental leave. It provides qualifying parents with the right to take unpaid time off from work to look after their child or to make arrangements for their welfare.

Currently, each parent can take up to a total of 18 weeks for each of their children up to their fifth birthday. These regulations allow that leave to be spread over time until a child is 18 years of age. It is about providing that enhanced flexibility. When the question was asked last week, it was not what we were expecting because it is a stand-alone entitlement. I thought that it was better for us to clarify that with you, even though you had not asked for it. That is what it is to do.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): I appreciate that, Tom. Do you want to cover the additional statutory rule?

Mr Evans: We flagged up in the original SL1 letter to the Committee that this was required. We are still waiting for final legal confirmation, but the Department is preparing another SR dealing with time off to attend adoption appointments, which is for prospective adopters.

The purpose of the regulations will be to extend the new statutory rights afforded to adoptive parents concerning paid and unpaid time off work to attend adoption appointments. They will also be available to parents who are fostering a child with a view to becoming adoptive parents. Again, the central point is that these people will be approved adopters who have already gone through a process. The observations on the SL1 explain the consultation process and the impact. All that has happened, and it has taken us a while to prepare the regulation. That is what its purpose is.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): When will you have clarity on that?

Mr Evans: It will be ready for commencement with all the other regulations, which will come to the Committee following the Examiner of Statutory Rules' consideration of the 23 SRs, as they will be then.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): We have now approved the Paternity and Adoption Leave (Amendment) (No.2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015, which is the first series. You had indicated that you may be considering amalgamating the two sets. Will you give us clarity on that?

Mr Evans: At this stage, we have not done it. The enabling powers are in the legislation; it is about how we present the regulations. At this stage, we have not amalgamated them. There is such a burden of work, and we wanted to get all the regulations in place so that the Minister can write to Executive colleagues alerting them to the ones that are subject to confirmatory procedure so that we can get a debate in the Assembly.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): Post amalgamation, they will still be debated in the Assembly under the confirmatory procedure?

Mr Evans: The rights will not change; it is purely a consolidation exercise.

The Chairperson (Mr Swann): There are no further questions from members. Thank you very much for your time, Tom.