Official Report: Minutes of Evidence
Committee for Communities, meeting on Thursday, 7 November 2024
Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr Colm Gildernew (Chairperson)
Mrs Ciara Ferguson (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Andy Allen MBE
Ms Kellie Armstrong
Mr Maurice Bradley
Mr Brian Kingston
Mr Maolíosa McHugh
Ms Sian Mulholland
Witnesses:
Mr Stephen Orme, NIA Bill Office
Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Bill: Committee Report
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Members, before we start to consider the report, I need to make you aware that we have been advised that the amendment that we had agreed has a minor technical defect in it. As a result, we now need to consider a newly drafted version. A copy of the redrafted amendment is in your tabled papers at page 15. Stephen Orme from the Bill Office is in attendance, and I invite him to take us through the redrafted amendment.
Mr Stephen Orme (NIA Bill Office): First of all, I apologise in advance to all the Members who got the tabled paper, I assume, at some point yesterday evening. I thank you for taking it, and I also thank the staff.
Yesterday, we realised that, as the letter stated, there was a minor technical defect in the amendment as originally approved by the Committee and as tabled. The regulations were referred to as being "under section 1" of the new Act. Strictly speaking, clause 1 of the Bill amends the Pensions (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2008, so the regulations will be made under new sections of that Act. There are a couple of changes to the amendment that reflect that better. There is no change to the policy intent. This is just a slightly better and slightly clearer rendering of the Committee's instructions. That is it, really, but I am happy to take questions.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Are there any questions for Stephen? OK, thank you, Stephen.
I will now read into the record the redrafted amendment before asking for members' agreement on it. The draft corrected amendment is:
"After clause 1, insert –
Report on the operation of powers affecting age and qualifying earnings
2.—(1) The Department for Communities must lay before the Assembly a report setting out its assessment of the effects of any changes made by regulations under sections 3(1A), 5(1C) or 13A of the Pensions (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2008;
(2) The report must be led at least 36 months, and no more than 42 months, after the coming into operation of the first regulations made under any of section 3(1A), 5(1C) or 13A of that Act."
Are members content with the corrected amendment?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Thank you.
Before I start on the report, we have been provided with a departmental reply on monitoring data on opting out following the implementation of measures in the Bill:
"The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE) will continue to form the primary route by which participation in workplace pensions [here] is monitored ... The ASHE survey ... provides data on employee participation in workplace pensions however, data on why employees choose to opt out of workplace pensions is not available."
Do Members have any comments, or are they content to note and include a copy of that response in our report?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Thank you.
Members, we have been provided, at page 12 of your tabled papers, with a ministerial response to our queries on workplace pensions for the self-employed. The Minister states:
"Automatic enrolment into pensions doesn’t apply to the self-employed and that has been the case since the introduction of automatic enrolment in 2012. Research has shown that the approach to pensions that worked for employees generally wasn’t suitable for the self-employed."
There are other ways outlined in the reply in which the self-employed can arrange their own pensions. The Minister's response outlines:
"The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) is exploring the feasibility of retirement savings solutions for the self-employed. My officials are liaising with DWP officials on this, however it should be noted that this work is long term and at an early stage."
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Are members content to note that response at this stage and to confirm they are content to include a copy of that response in our report?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Thank you, members.
Now, members, we will consider our draft report on the Bill. You have been provided with a copy of the revised draft report, taking into account the redrafted amendment that we have just discussed. That is in your tabled papers at page 16. I remind you that we are focusing on the text of the report only, as the team will then address any formatting issues once the text is agreed. I will ask for comments and agreement on each section of the report.
We will start with "Powers and Membership" at pages 18 and 19. Do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted?
Members indicated assent.
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Thank you. "Introduction" at pages 23 to 25: do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): "Context and Overview of the Bill", which is at pages 26 to 35: do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): "Consideration of the Bill" at pages 36 to 42: do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted? The changes to reflect the agreed redrafted amendment are at paragraph 45 on page 19.
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): "Committee Deliberations on the Bill" at pages 43 to 48: do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): The clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill is at pages 49 to 50. Do members have any comments, or are they content with the section as drafted? Members should note that the changes to reflect the agreed amendment are at paragraph 81 on page 80. Are members content?
Members indicated assent.
Members indicated assent.
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Are members therefore content to agree that the report is final, pending the tidying up of any formatting issues, and that, once those are done, that the report can be printed?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr Gildernew): Members, that concludes the Committee Stage of the Bill. Thank you for your in-depth scrutiny of the Bill. I thank all those who made submissions and gave oral evidence. I thank the departmental officials and Bill Office officials for their hard work in helping us work our way through the Bill. I also thank the Committee staff for their extensive work. I look forward to the debate on the Bill at Consideration Stage. Thank you, members.