Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Ms Kimmins): Members will remember that the Committee deferred the further consideration of the SL1 at its meeting on 12 September as we had requested further information about cost. A response from the Department has provided detail of cost estimates.

In attendance we have Irene Culleton, head of people, organisational development and equality, and Tim Morrison, also from the organisational, development and equality branch. Thank you for being here. If you would like to make a few, brief, opening remarks, then I can open the floor for questions.

Ms Irene Culleton (Department of Health): At the meeting on 12 September, you asked for clarity on the costings from the trusts. We engaged with trusts over the past couple of months, and they provided us with indicative costings.

We are looking at a total Health and Social Care-wide cost of about £1 million to £1·5 million per annum. Each trust provided the same figure of £200,000 to £300,000 to implement the scheme. That is based on a pragmatic approach, so we have had to work with trusts to help them to understand how they may be able to implement the scheme slightly differently from other bodies. Trusts have a massive number of premises, so we are looking at a pragmatic approach whereby trusts are, perhaps, not going to have products in every bathroom in every building but have linked buildings with products in one. We asked them to make sure that signage and access are clear. Working with trusts, we came up with those figures, which we think are reasonable and reflect a sensible approach for trusts.

The Chairperson (Ms Kimmins): Thank you, Irene. I should have apologised for the delay. I know that everyone has been waiting. Does anyone have a question?

Mrs Dodds: As you say, the figures are indicative, but there is a huge variation. Between £200,000 and £300,000 is a significant difference, as is £1 million to £1·5 million. If the costs were to rise, how would those be funded? The potential is that they will rise very significantly from those figures. I am never clear how you make decisions based on indicative figures because I do not know what they are based on, and they seem very wide to me.

Ms Culleton: There are a couple of things. As part of the legislation, the trusts have to carry out a consultation with users. That is ongoing, and that will help them to understand a bit more about what is required and, hopefully, narrow down and be more exact about how much it is going to cost. There will be a procurement process after that. They are going to use, I think, an existing contract to do that. We will probably find ourselves with a bit more clarity after the consultation, when trusts will, perhaps, be more exact in what they are talking about.

The bid from the Department as part of the budget exercise for 2025-26 will include the cost of period products for trusts. The bid will be based on those figures, unless they become clearer, in which case we will refine it. The trusts seem to be quite certain that that is the range that they are working within, based on what they know. We just take them at their word for now, and once the consultation is completed, we might have more clarity.

Mrs Dodds: I am not really sure where that takes us. We did not have any figures the last time, and now we have a set of very inexact figures. I am not sure how that helps us and whether we should not wait and see what the consultation brings: whether there will be a more precise and better idea. Unless there is a particular hurry with this. I have no idea if there is.

Ms Culleton: The Act requires us to lay the regulations within a year. We have passed that, so we are keen to get the Committee's assent to lay the regulations just in terms of moving it on and having that requirement in legislation for trusts to work within. I take your point that those are not exact costings. I am not sure at what stage we are going to get to that very precise point. This is a new scheme, so how much it is going to cost really is unknown at this stage. The trusts gave us those figures as their best estimate, based on, I suppose, their knowledge of their estates and what they think they require.

Miss McAllister: Thank you for that. Those costs are quite astounding, and, hopefully, they might be reduced once the scheme comes into effect. I would like to think that that will be the case. I understand that you have to set the bar in terms of what the project could cost, but I hope that it will be less than that.

Given that other Departments have moved on in terms of laying the regulations, and given the number of women who visit healthcare facilities for healthcare reasons, the onus is on us not to delay the regulations for the Department. It seems important that we move forward. It would look really daft if the Health Department were to not move forward while all the other Departments have done so, as it is a women's health issue. It also helps to address other issues that women face with regard to being able to afford products financially. It is important that we do move on. Thank you very much.

Mr Donnelly: It is a great scheme. Addressing period poverty is something that we should all support. I have a quick question about trends. We highlighted previously that we had had a briefing on addressing period poverty. It has been implemented in other areas in the UK. Is there any assessment of the trends in the other areas where it has been implemented? Did they go up or go down from initial estimates and from usage?

Ms Culleton: We have left it to the trusts to advise us on that. It is something that they may have looked at as part of it. My understanding is that there are a lot of variations in other schemes across the water as regards access and things like that, so I do not know that we have a complete comparator with other schemes, as such. Again, that is based on what the trusts tell us is their estimate. They may have done what you described and had a look over the water, but I cannot say that for sure.

The Chairperson (Ms Kimmins): Thank you, both, for coming again. I have no further questions.

I suppose we could keep an eye on the figures, but, as Nuala said, other Departments have already implemented it. We were keen just to get it across so that we could base our decision on something. We understand that some of it can be difficult to pin down at this stage. I appreciate your time on that as well.

Are Members content with the merits of the policy and that the Department makes the statutory rule and that we say, "subject to ongoing updates and monitoring of the costs"?

The Chairperson (Ms Kimmins): OK, thank you.

Thank you both again.