Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Caroline, thank you for staying on from the previous session. We also have Nicola Duffin, senior scientific officer at DAERA. I invite you to brief the Committee when you are comfortable.

Ms Caroline Barry (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): Thank you, Mr Chairman and Committee members, for the opportunity to talk about the UK common framework on integrated pollution prevention and control and the developing and setting of best available techniques (BAT). As I mentioned in the previous session, I am currently the acting head of chemicals and industrial pollution policy in DAERA. I am joined by my colleague Nicola Duffin, who is a senior scientific officer in my team who works on industrial pollution policy and legislation, and, like me, is involved in the operation of the framework.

The primary focus of the framework is to steer the development of new UK best available techniques, which has been and is a core concept of the EU industrial emissions directive (IED). Annex 1 of the IED defines the categories of activities to which BAT applies. Industries that fall below that specific threshold are regulated outside the BAT system via process guidance notes etc.

Large industrial installations that undertake specific types of activity are required to use best available techniques to reduce emissions to air, water and land. BAT refers to the economically and technically viable techniques that are best for preventing or minimising emissions and impacts on the environment as a whole. Regulation 11(2) of the Pollution Prevention and Control (Industrial Emissions) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013 requires that:

Prior to the EU's exit from the UK — sorry, the UK's exit from the EU; if only it were the other way around — UK officials participated in the EU BAT development process. The Sevilla process, as it was called, developed and agreed BAT measures for all member states. Due to annex 4 of the Windsor framework, Northern Ireland remains aligned with the EU IED post Brexit in respect of large combustion plants that feed into the single energy market on the island of Ireland. However, for any other industrial sectors, Northern Ireland remains aligned with the UK. While industrial emissions are a devolved policy area, it is recognised that a common approach in the UK will provide consistency for industry. The aim of the framework is to develop UK-wide arrangements to support the effective regulation of industrial emissions.

The Environment and Wildlife (Legislative Functions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 provide the legislative basis for all four Governments to adopt BAT for their nations. The 'Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control – The Developing and Setting of Best Available Techniques (BAT)' framework is one of 12 common frameworks that were published in February 2022. The main purpose of the framework is to agree an approach to post-EU-exit policy and legislation work throughout the UK in establishing a UK BAT regime to provide a transparent, collaborative, flexible and data- and evidence-led process that safeguards and builds on the high levels of environmental protection already in place in the UK.

The common framework document consists of two sections: the provisional framework outline agreement and the concordat. The concordat provides non-legislative mechanisms to set out the scope of the framework and the principles of engagement which the parties will respect and work to. That includes establishing a decision-making and dispute-resolution process, thus ensuring that the four jurisdictions can discuss and manage any potential policy divergence. It also puts in place a review and amendment mechanism for future updates to the common framework. The guiding principle for the decision-making process is that all parties will aim to reach consensus.

The common framework provides a governance structure consisting of a standards council, which provides strategic oversight; the regulators group, which supports the council and provides oversight of the sector-specific working groups; the small and medium industry subgroup; the UK BAT advisory board; the UK air quality and industrial emissions governance group; and a range of sector-specific technical working groups that provide technical expertise. I will give you a bit more information on those.

The standards council provides strategic oversight of the regime for BAT within the UK programme of industrial pollution standards creation and agreement. The council communicates decisions on BAT in the UK, making clear where differing approaches have been agreed. It aims to reach consensus, including agreement to a common approach or differing approaches to BAT in the UK.

The regulators group supports the standards council. It develops and regularly reviews the technical principles that underpin BAT in the UK. On the advice of the technical working groups, it applies those principles when reaching each sector-specific BAT advice and makes recommendations to the standards council. Policy decisions on the adoption of BAT are the responsibility of the standards council.

The small and medium industry subgroup provides a working-level forum on areas of industrial emissions that currently do not fall within the scope of BAT, such as medium combustion and Pollution Prevention and Control (Industrial Emissions) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2013 Part C activities. It makes recommendations to the standards council as part of the process for prioritising future BAT reviews. It provides a forum for sharing ideas and possible policies in relation to clean air and air quality.

The UK BAT advisory board provides advice to the council on strategic matters relating to BAT. It is made up of representatives from the devolved Governments, regulators and stakeholders with an interest in BAT, including industry, trade associations, local government, NGOs and academia.

The UK air quality and industrial emissions governors group is a high-level group comprising senior officials who provide strategic oversight on matters relating to air quality and BAT. It ensures the continued functioning of policies and legislation post EU exit but does not deal with the working and operational aspects of the BAT common framework.

The devolved Governments are represented on all of those groups, including the sector-specific technical working groups, where relevant. Last week, a meeting of the UK regulators group was held in Belfast, and Nicola and I attended.

A copy of the provisional common framework documents, like the fluorinated gas (F-gas) framework and ozone-depleting substances (ODS) framework, can be found on the gov.uk website. Once the Committee and all of the devolved Governments have finished their examination of the provisional common framework, policy officials across the UK will assess the feedback received and make any changes to the documents that are required.

In conclusion, I thank you for your attention. Nicola and I are happy to answer questions.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Thank you so much for that. I appreciate that, and I am sure that Members will have questions for you. I have two to start off with, if that is OK.

Best available techniques or "BAT" means, as far as I know, the economically and technically viable available techniques that are best for preventing or minimising emissions and the impact on the environment as a whole. Who decides? Who sets the standards for BAT and decides what the balance will be between technical effectiveness and the economic viability of it? Is there a specific group within the concordat?

Ms Nicola Duffin (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): The standards council has the overall call on that. It takes advice from the regulators group, which, in turn, takes advice from the technical working groups. Quite a lot of people working on the ground who are technical specialists are feeding in. As we said, the common framework is a way to form a consensus and a set of rules to form agreement on the best way forward, particularly in this situation with regard to best available techniques.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): In Northern Ireland, what is the scale of industrial emissions, measured against England, Scotland and Wales and the Republic? Where do we sit? Is there a league table of industrial emissions?

Ms Duffin: Annually, around this time of year — I speak as a previous regulator — all permitted sites are required to submit a report on their emissions, which are normally formed according to BAT on the permit that they will have received from their regulators. That is held in a system called the "pollution inventory", which traditionally was submitted via the UK to the EU. Since we are in a transition period at the moment, the information was submitted recently and is being held in a UK format at the moment. With regard to large combustion plants, however, that has been passed on to Europe because that is what we are required to do. Yes, there are available figures on the amount of emissions in the UK.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Do you know where Northern Ireland specifically sits in that table?

Ms Duffin: It would be hard to say where exactly where we sit because we are talking about lots of different industries. Off the top of my head, no, I could not say exactly where we sit, but the recent figures are available certainly at a UK level and throughout the whole of Europe in the recent past.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): So different groups have been set up through the framework contributing to reductions in emissions and so on and so forth. You have hinted at what happens if there is divergence. Is there any body responsible for horizon scanning for potential divergence? As far as I can see from the briefing, it is probably only in the area of power, but is there any group responsible for assessing future complications with regard to divergence and alleviating them before they arise, or is it a matter of just trying to deal with changes that happen as they come?

Ms Barry: In Northern Ireland, the Windsor framework is aligned with the EU in relation to the sites that feed into the single energy market. Currently, that relates to four sites in Northern Ireland that have been agreed with the EU. However, that number may increase over time. With regard to the common framework, within the working groups, the standards council is the main body that looks at what is coming through and considers potential impacts. If divergence was identified and there were concerns about that, any issues would be escalated, and there is a dispute resolution mechanism that we can work through. Overall, however, as Nicola said, it is by consensus that the various working groups work within the framework.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): OK. Thank you very much for that.

Mr McAleer: Obviously, the large combustion plants that feed into the all-island single energy market remain aligned with the EU. Do installations that are not of that scale have an option on whether to opt in, or is it a requirement?

Ms Duffin: Not really. The way the Windsor framework is written makes it clear that it is only the large combustion plants that feed into the single energy market. The pollution prevention and control regime in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK is still working from retained EU law — the industrial emissions directive. Effectively, North, South, east and west are feeding into the same legislation at the moment. There will be slight differences in the way that the Scottish Government have interpreted their pollution prevention and control system, the same as in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but they are basically working off the same directives at the moment. It is hard to predict what changes the future will bring.

Mr McAleer: It goes back to the divergence question. Is the framework robust enough to cope with any possible divergence on this between the UK and the EU down the line?

Ms Duffin: It is robust in that we are trying to form the best consensus that we can, as I said at the beginning. The format of any meetings that I have attended recently has been positive. It is unlikely that there will be a lot of divergence. Certainly, everybody is working as hard as they can to make sure that it is as easy a transition as possible and that the ultimate goal of reducing pollution is kept as the main aim of this — again, North, South, east and west.

Ms Barry: We are obviously working with our GB counterparts in the development of a range of new UK BAT techniques and conclusions that will be applicable across the UK for a range of sectors. Tranche 1 is almost complete, a second tranche is under way and a third tranche is planned for development on a range of sectors.

Mr Blair: Thanks for the presentation. This question is similar to the one that I asked previously on F-gases and ODS. I totally understand the logic of having the frameworks in place to ensure best practice, but I will ask the question again about how this is measured. What does success on this look like? Is it the case that a lot of industrial pollution is already being measured by other Departments, be that on climate, air quality or whatever else? I am keen to know how the effect of the framework is measured, if it is, is it assumed that industrial pollution is already captured in monitoring by other Departments and environmental agencies?

Ms Duffin: Industrial pollution monitoring is covered by the pollution inventory, for which the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) is the enforcement and monitoring body. The framework is a set of rules and procedures that we follow to format the future. I am not sure whether there is a monitoring process in place to measure the success of the common framework.

Mr Blair: In terms of industrial pollution and the effect that any common framework might have on that, I also understand that it would be easy to see how industrial pollution's effects on society, air quality or the environment are decreasing or increasing, because that information will already be held for government. Is it the case, then, that there is no need for the framework to do monitoring separately?

Ms Duffin: Yes.

Ms Barry: Yes, because there is air quality monitoring, water pollution monitoring and a range of other monitoring.

Mr Blair: It will be monitored elsewhere, basically.

Ms Barry: Yes.

Mr Blair: OK. Thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Any other questions, members, on this item? No. OK.

Thank you very much for your presentation. We may be in touch; we may bring you back.