Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): I am pleased to welcome to the meeting Alan Knox, the president of the Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce, as well as Donna Cunningham and Ryan Ward who are in the public gallery. You are very welcome, and we are pleased that you could come and speak to us. We are keen to hear how the issues affect you in Kilkeel. I invite you to make some opening remarks.

Mr Alan Knox (Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce): Thank you, all, for coming down to Kilkeel. I hope that you enjoy your visit. You brought good weather with you. In particular, thanks to Diane, who, I imagine, has been spearheading efforts to get the Committee to Kilkeel, and we thank the Clerk for organising it.

The banking hub is the first in Northern Ireland and has been a great success. My only comment is that there was a need for it. We had two local bank closures within a year. They occurred within a short space of each other. On 12 November 2021, the Allied Irish Bank (AIB) branch closed, and, on 16 September 2022, the Danske Bank branch closed. That left our rural community with no banking facilities. Our closest banking facility for AIB was then in Newry, and the same with Danske Bank.

You have all travelled down here, and we are at the end of the road. It is very much a rural setting. The two closures have negatively impacted on the town. If you walk down the street to the banking hub, you pass the two beautiful buildings on our high street. The closure has had an impact on local businesses. The banks did not just employ banking staff: those staff shopped locally, and people who travelled to the banks spent locally. The closures encouraged those people to spend elsewhere, which has impacted negatively on the town.

Heather Doran and Eamy Sloan, who run the banking hub, also run the post office. From my point of view as a business owner, they have been fantastic in filling that void. There is no doubt that bank closures leave a void. There is still stuff that people are unable to do at the banking hub, so they have to travel to Newry for that. I will give you an example. In my business, I deal with a lot of farmers. I have a farmer who is in the middle of lambing season, and he had to take time out to travel to Newry. He said that it took him the best part of two and a half hours to travel to Newry, do what he needed to do and come back. That was time that he could not afford to spend, but he had to do it — it was a necessity. I see Lisnaskea chamber's point. It faces the same situation, I imagine, and it is the same right across Northern Ireland.

The Finance Committee needs to ask hard questions about bank closures, especially in rural areas. When AIB was a big shot, the Kilkeel chamber, along with the Kilkeel Development Association and Sea Source, ran a campaign to save our bank. We are the only ones in Northern Ireland who did that. I cannot believe that other towns did not do it. The head of retail came down for a meeting, and we put forward our case. A lot of big-hitting businesses that banked with AIB were behind us. Again, there was no change. Once it had made its decision, that was it. It was always put to me that the Kilkeel branch would be one of the last to close because the town has a fishing port. AIB was very well supported among the fishing industry, so it was a shock. As I said, we put together a strong campaign. A local person, Ewan Atkinson, stood outside the bank for two weeks solid and collected signatures. I cannot remember what the total number of signatures was. He did that off his own bat. As I said, the two closures have definitely had a negative impact. If there are impending bank closures in other rural areas, I would give serious consideration to how such closures will affect those high streets too.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): Thank you, Alan. Do Ryan and Donna want to come forward and join you? No. [Laughter.]

Mr Carroll: You will get all the hard questions, Alan.

Dr Aiken: It is OK: Gerry does not bite. [Laughter.]

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): That is OK. Thank you very much, Alan. The fact is that banking and some financial services are not devolved to Northern Ireland; they are still managed centrally at Westminster. Our inquiry is trying to get to grips with the Northern Ireland-specific issues in order to gather evidence about and represent the needs here.

In a previous session, Cash Access UK said that, when it looked at the feedback from the Kilkeel banking hub compared with that from hubs on the mainland, it found that a much higher proportion of businesses bank with the Kilkeel banking hub than is the case in a whole lot of its other banking hubs. You have the banking hub, but you do not have any banks. What specific needs do people and local businesses in Kilkeel and the rural area have that can be met only by accessing their banks?

Mr Knox: There is a need for support and face-to-face transactions. You miss those when banks close. As a business owner, if I had a query, traditionally, I went to the local bank to get that dealt with there and then. Yes, you can do cash transactions and lodgements at the banking hub, but you miss those face-to-face transactions or meetings with representatives. Thankfully, AIB finally agreed to sign up for that. Maybe it was forced to sign up for it; I do not fully know. If you talk to anyone who deals with AIB or Danske Bank, they will tell you that the busiest days of the week in the banking hub are the days on which representatives from those two banks are there, because there is a need for that support.

I am speaking from a business point of view and from a private point of view as an individual who lives in the local area. The support that businesses need is probably getting that relationship with the bank manager. It is lost now because the bank managers are elsewhere. They are in Newry or, in my case, Portadown. We have to try to get them on the end of the phone to gain support for what we need there and then. Sometimes, I need information there and then, and I cannot afford to wait for an email to come back later that day or the next day. That support has been lost with the closure of the banks.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): The banking representatives are coming in next week, so we will get to speak to them directly. Here in Kilkeel, we have access to the banking hub and a bit of face-to-face access. However, it is not the banking hubs that decide that; it is down to the business decisions of the banks, so we are keen to hear from them.

Finally, you mentioned a farmer and other people. As a local, I know that people travel to Newry for their main bank. Are you getting feedback from businesses that those banks are a lot busier now? When I travel to Newry to go to that bank, there is quite a queue, so not only are people travelling for 40 or 50 minutes to get there but it is busier because the smaller branches have closed.

Mr Knox: The feedback that I get is that it is a lot busier. As I said in that example earlier, it takes three quarters of an hour to travel to Newry, but there is also a wait in the queue. That branch has to deal with a much bigger population now, so there is no doubt that it is busier.

Thankfully, with AIB or Danske Bank, you are dealing with people who used to work in Kilkeel, so you have that relationship. However, if you are dealing with a completely new bank team, years of relationships have been completely lost, and their know-how of your business has been completely lost. Every business is different.

Local banks were able to cater for your specific needs, whereas, if there is a universal approach, that is completely gone. Effectively, we negated that a bit, in that the people who were employed by the local bank have moved to Newry. In relative terms, you can say that Newry is close, but you know, Diane, that it takes a lot of time out of your day that you maybe cannot afford to lose. You have to cater for the banking hours, so you have to leave your business during business hours in order to do banking.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): You talked about the business hours. Staff at the hub mentioned that they are keeping a live review of the fact that they are open Monday to Friday, 9.00 am to 5.00 pm. Do you think that, if the hubs or banks made more moves to have evening or weekend sessions, that would make a difference?

Mr Knox: I definitely think that evening sessions would be more than welcome, maybe once a month or so.

The other thing is that it would be helpful if you could pencil in a meeting. If you go to the banking hub, you have to wait in a queue, and there is only one representative. Kilkeel has only one meeting room in the banking hub, and, if there is a queue of four or five people in front of you, you do not know how long it will take. You might have to turn on your heel and go, meaning that you have lost that opportunity for the week. It is the following week before the hub is back again.

I imagine that there is data on how many people are seen each day. There are busier days, so I believe that there is a need for a second member of staff from that bank. If the banking hubs are looking at the issue, it might be a matter of putting two meeting rooms in as a necessity.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): It was said earlier that the future model is to have two meeting rooms, and we all saw how busy the AIB representative was this morning, so I definitely think that that is a good example.

Mr Knox: It may be worthwhile asking whether it is possible for businesses to arrange meeting times, because that would make it a lot easier.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): Absolutely. Thank you, Alan.

Mr Carroll: Thanks very much, Alan. I represent urban West Belfast, so the experience is different for me and my constituents. If you have no banking services, however, a hub is essential for people. In the earlier session, I raised the concern that banks were using hubs as a way of saving money, essentially. The overheads for the nice former bank buildings in this town would be costly. My concern is that the banks are moving towards hubs as a way to protect their finances. I note that Danske Bank made a £218 million profit in the North last year. The NatWest Group made a £6·2 billion profit, and Ulster Bank is part of that. Those are not small organisations, and they are making a lot of money off the backs of customers.

Whilst your members and the people whom you work with support the banking hub service, there is a concern that it is being rolled out as a replacement following branch closures. There has been a bit of pushback against closures from the Financial Services Union, which represents bank workers, but, quite often, those closures are railroaded through. That is more of a comment than a question.

Mr Knox: I fully accept your comment, and I agree. There is no doubt that it is a cost-saving method. If this is the future, we have to deal with it. Your Committee may be able to push back on that and say, "You can't simply close a bank branch". I do not know what powers there are to do that, but I agree with you. The banks employ fewer people to run a banking hub. They are putting one member of staff in a hub for a day instead of the three members of staff who worked in the branch. I agree with your comments.

Mr Carroll: Community pressure is vital. We are not always victorious, as, unfortunately, was the case here. If you do not organise and fight, you are already snookered, so to speak.

Mr Frew: Thank you very much for coming along today, Alan. It strikes me that you can see very clearly where the banks used to be in Kilkeel. The architecture of a bank is usually different from that of a retail unit. A bank building space does not always allow for another business to go into it. You are left with two magnificent buildings in the town centre that are now derelict. What sort of effect has that had on Kilkeel? Does the Chamber of Commerce have any thoughts on how Kilkeel can rescue that situation?

Mr Knox: Banks tended to be in magnificent buildings because all the money was there. Unfortunately, this end of the street has suffered greatly from the dereliction of the two bank buildings. They are in good working order, if you can say that of a building. I understand that one bank building has planning permission for a change of use, but the planning authority has a lot of red tape that is holding that up. That needs to be addressed, but I know that that is outwith your inquiry's remit.

The Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce and the local economic partnership that was recently launched are actively looking at the question of dereliction. There will be a study of derelict buildings in Kilkeel. The Newry Chamber of Commerce and Trade did something similar recently. We will try to identify what the problems are with the derelict buildings. Are there planning applications in? How can the local economic partnership address those problems?

As you all know well, the high street retail environment has completely changed over the past 10 years. This is about thinking outside the box. It is no longer the case that high streets are about just retail. Any report that you read will say that high streets need to be a mixture of retail, hospitality and living. Living conditions come into play in that scenario because of changing use. It is not easy to change use from a retail environment to apartments, for example. That needs to be addressed in order to save our high streets. We need to prevent any further dereliction. As you well know, it is very easy to go from one or two derelict buildings to having a lot more in that state, because people will simply not invest.

Mr Frew: You have triggered my memory. In Ballymena, we lost the Bank of Ireland, which had a grand frontage, and it has been turned into apartments. That may be a case study for Kilkeel to look at. I do not know how it is being done. The bank obviously had safes and vaults etc, so there is probably a lot of change inside the building, which we have not got into, but the back has been built out and an apartment block created, which means that there is more living space in the town centre. It is not beyond hope that something like that can happen. I know that dereliction has a massive impact on town centres.

Mr Knox: Massive, yes. From the financial point of view, there is an impact on councils from the loss of rates on that building. If there is no incentive to address and solve the dereliction problem, the building will just lie there for ever or until something is forced to be done about it. If buildings such as the AIB or Danske Bank are left for a prolonged period, it will get to the stage where it would not be viable to address the problem. That needs to be looked at.

Mr Frew: Is the model of all the banks being brought into the hub and contributing by having one staff member in it for one day a week the right one? You said that it was not ideal compared with what a bank could provide. There was a conversation earlier about employing someone full-time to represent all the banks. Instead of an agent of a bank coming in and it being possible to see them one day a week, would it be better for there to be someone permanent? I do not mean counter staff, because that means a different service, but someone who would be in the interview room five days a week and who could represent all the banks. Would it be better still if there were to be an increase in employment that rolled that out to two staff members? You can see how you could crank it up into looking and feeling like a bank.

Mr Knox: I do not see how it could be viable for someone to represent all the banks. My understanding is that each bank operates in a completely different way. In theory, it would be fantastic to have one dedicated member of banking staff as opposed to counter staff, but I do not see how that would work in practice.

I will go back to my point and your comments. Two members of staff are needed, near enough. It goes back to Gerry's point that banks are looking to reduce their overheads. Banking hubs are a cost-effective way for them to scale up. Maybe it is not what we want, but, if those are the cards that we are dealt, yes, it would be beneficial to go back to having the two members of staff. I do not know whom you talked to about a permanent member of staff representing all the banks. They may have more insight into and more experience of the banking sector, but I do not see how that would work.

Mr Frew: For banks and businesses that worked with banks in the past, trust was a massive issue. You used to get to know your bank manager when you started a business, and you usually walked alongside that bank manager for his whole career and your whole business career. That is gone now, but is the fact that it could well take time to build up trust in banking hubs still an issue?

Mr Knox: It very much depends on who runs the banking hub. In Kilkeel, the trust was already there, because it is two local women who run the hub. I discovered only recently that they had to go through a lengthy interview process for that. I had thought that it would be a given that they, as the post office staff, would do it.

If a new banking hub was set up and somebody completely new to the area, whom nobody knew about, came in, they would find it very hard to gain that sort of trust or relationship. As you said, you walked along with your bank manager through your business career. In our business experience, we have changed our bank manager four times in the past five years. They have lost that complete relationship: their understanding of us as a business and how we operate. We might operate slightly old school, but our previous bank manager knew how we operated and was able to provide a service that catered for that. If there is a new bank manager allocated to a business that has been operating for so long with the same member of staff, they might try to push a service on the firm that is not needed or that might inhibit the growth of the business.

I agree with you. After bank closures and the creation of banking hubs, those relationships can be lost. Thankfully, in Kilkeel, it has not been as widely felt, because the relationship has been there, but I can see how that could be an issue.

Mr Frew: Yes. Thank you very much, Alan.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): We were talking about asking for a wee bit more information from Cash Access UK, feeding on from the point that Alan made well that the success of the Kilkeel banking hub has been largely dependent on the fact that the local postmaster was able to take it on. Cash Access UK said, earlier in the session, that that is where it tries to go first, but if that is not successful, it goes wider. I would be interested to know, in Northern Ireland and across the board, how many banking hubs were taken on by the local postmaster. We are asking for a bit more feedback.

Alan, a question came to me just as you were speaking. You are the president of Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce. Is there any means by which the Kilkeel banking hub and Cash Access UK engage with you for feedback as to how it has been going? We heard a lot today about how Cash Access UK sprang from five to 122 really quickly. It is rolling out this model, but is there a mechanism by which it is taking local feedback on how it is going or what it can improve?

Mr Knox: In relation to Cash Access UK or just to banking hubs specifically?

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): To Cash Access UK, because it is the one that is rolling it out.

Mr Knox: Kilkeel chamber and Cash Access UK had a very close relationship in the development of the banking hub when it first came about, especially when we were pushing for AIB to join. There were countless meetings, but since the hub has been set up, we have had very few dealings with Cash Access UK. I deal personally with Eamy Sloan and Heather Doran in the banking hub. I see them at least once a week and ask them how it is going. As a chamber, we have been pushing out social media posts or word of mouth to local businesses about the banking hub, because there has been a misunderstanding about how people can use it. They think, for instance, that, if it is Barclays Bank one day or Danske Bank another, they can only do Danske transactions that day, whereas over the counter, as you all well know, you can do any transaction with any bank. We are getting out that information.

The relationship with Cash Access UK probably could be improved from the chamber's point of view in order to promote the banking hub a bit more. We do it ad hoc, because we have a close relationship with the banking managers. Going forward with Cash Access UK, it might want to know how it can tie in with local business groups in order to keep on promoting the banking hub, or maybe a change of service or hours. As I said, we pick up on that through our personal relationship, rather than the business relationship.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): You make a lot of good, sensible suggestions: meetings for businesses, a separate room for businesses, and the pressures that are felt. I am concerned that if, Cash Access UK is rolling out banking hubs quickly without taking feedback, there are improvements that could be made. It is definitely something that we can look into.

Dr Aiken: Thanks very much indeed for coming to give evidence. I have just a couple of specific questions. You say that Kilkeel is at the end of the road and that you are a rural thing, but you have some really big industries here. You have Collins Aerospace, which is the second-largest manufacturer of seats anywhere, full stop. That is a major business. You have the fishing industry. There are lots of fishing boats, and there are lots of small businesses built around the industry. It is actually a vibrant economic hub that does not have banking facilities. I have been reading through the paperwork. Newcastle and Warrenpoint have gone to banking hubs. You said that you bank in Portadown.

Mr Knox: Our business bank account is in Portadown.

Dr Aiken: Yes. Even though there is such a large amount of economic activity going on in Kilkeel and the wider area, the banks do not feel that it is worth their while to get involved.

Mr Knox: It goes back to the previous comments. We were very shocked when AIB closed in the town. Some 90% of the fishing industry banked with AIB. A previous AIB bank manager had said that Kilkeel would be the last branch to close because it was so successful. You mentioned Collins Aerospace, and Kilkeel also has a fantastic SME industry. There are a lot of local companies that are third-, fourth- and fifth-generation family businesses. It was very confusing to see how it was not viable to run a bank, because there are great businesses in the area that used the bank on a daily basis.

Dr Aiken: Where do the SMEs go to get banking, investment opportunities and loans?

Mr Knox: A lot of the SMEs do not know where to go, and it is a big issue for the Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce to address. An established SME may have a relationship with another bank, but if you are trying to start a business, where to turn to and how to get support from a bank is a minefield. If the relationship has not developed with a bank, it may not say yes to an investment or loan, whereas previously it would have. The issue probably goes beyond Kilkeel into Northern Ireland in general. Do the banks support SMEs?

Dr Aiken: We know the answer to that. A lot of the fishing crews are foreign nationals who may be sending money home via money transfer. How do they do that if there are no banks?

Mr Knox: I believe that it is through the banking hub. I do not have detailed experience in that area, but I believe that it is through the banking hub, or else they go to Newry. They will have to rely on public transport to get to Newry, which can be difficult in a rural setting. Again, the gateway to facilitate those transactions has been lost with the closure of the banks.

Dr Aiken: Thanks.

Ms Dolan: Thank you for coming to the Committee today. Can you expand on the work that was done to get the hub in Kilkeel? Did you do the basic application that Cash Access UK mentioned earlier?

Mr Knox: The banking hub may have come to Kilkeel through the Finance Committee. We were surprised when Cash Access UK announced that Kilkeel had been chosen. The chamber was not aware of the banking hub or Cash Access UK, so we did not apply to become a banking hub. We thought that it came through a Committee such as yours or because the campaign to save the banks had gained traction and was on Radio Ulster. Thankfully, Kilkeel was chosen, and we gratefully accepted it. I am not too sure how it came about.

Ms Dolan: OK. Thank you.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): My understanding at the time was that Cash Access UK wanted to come to Northern Ireland for the first time. It looked at Northern Ireland, and there was a lot of press at the time about all the banks closing in Kilkeel. It was fortunate, and we are glad to be the first place in Northern Ireland with a banking hub.

Dr Aiken: For clarification, was the hub set up before or after the law changed?

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): Before. It was the first one in Northern Ireland.

Miss Hargey: Thanks very much, Alan and colleagues, for coming. It is useful, especially because we will have the banks in front of us next week as part of the inquiry. Given the reduction in service, and particularly face-to-face interaction, has there been a reduction in fees or charges from the bank for businesses?

Mr Knox: Most definitely not. [Laughter.]

They have definitely gone up. I do not think that Kilkeel is the only town in which a lot of the businesses are cash only, and there is a reason for that. It is because the charges are so high. I always find it strange that you have to pay to lodge cash and to take cash out. We lost two cash machines in the town because of the two closures. We have gone from seven down to four at the minute. Last summer, we had three cash machines, and all three were out of action. The closest cash machine was in Rostrevor. For a full weekend, there was no access to cash. That was very problematic. We have seen a slight rise in the number of people using cash in our business sector, but we have to deal with card transactions, which are through the roof. The cost of those is something that we have to factor in, but our banking fees have definitely not decreased; that is for sure.

Miss Hargey: It will be useful to probe that area with banks next week.

When legislation that looked at banking hubs as a way of trying to intervene went through Westminster, there were particular issues for rural areas. It is not even just about bank closures but access to proper broadband. You are being hit numerous times with additional barriers when you try to do business or go about your life. I am trying to get a sense of the issues that local businesses here are being affected by. As you said, SMEs are the bedrock of our local economy. We want them to continue to grow. It is critical that the Economy Department looks at local economies and the regional balance piece. I am also trying to get a sense of the issues around broadband connection. If the banks say that more people are going online, is that a challenge for areas such as Kilkeel, and, if so, how?

One of the other areas is that a reduction in banking services can lead to a reduction in productivity levels. It could take the guts of three hours if you add up the time to get into Newry, wait in the queue, and then getting back. That could be two and a half hours or three hours out of your day. Are you seeing any impact on productivity in local businesses as a result of the closures?

Mr Knox: I will address your first question about connectivity. Broadband is an issue. We are in a rural setting, so there are black spots. There is a 3G, 4G and 5G black spot at Killowen, which is between here and Warrenpoint, or down to Newcastle. If you live in a house or run a business in that area — there are businesses in both directions — you will have issues. You need a 5G connection to do a banking transaction. If you need to spend online, you have to enter a PIN on an app on a phone. From a business and societal point of view, and especially from the point of view of elderly people, who perhaps do not have an Android phone or an Apple phone, banking simply cannot be done. In today's world, you need a phone that is capable of doing that. Connectivity is an issue. A good, stable broadband connection is crucial in order to run a business. Without it, irrespective of banking facilities or how you run your business, you cannot.

Sorry, what was your second question?

Miss Hargey: It was about productivity, given the reduction in services.

Mr Knox: If you have to spend two or three hours away from your business, your productivity definitely decreases. That is even more so if you are a one-man business, as a lot of local businesses are. In that case, the business will cease to exist for those two or three hours, and that is especially the case in retail, where that business might have to close in order to facilitate doing its banking. Instead of it being a five- or 10-minute job that you can do just up the street, which would be a no-brainer, they have to actively say, "Right, I'm going to have to close for half a day here to do my banking". It hits businesses, because they have to do that.

Miss Hargey: That is particularly the case in rural areas, which is the demographic in the North.

The other issue that I wanted to cover was knowing the local bank manager. It may be that you still have that relationship in Newry, as you said, but if you were to look in 10 years' time, there would have been personnel changes and it would not be the same. Does that have an impact on access to lending? Is that more difficult now that you do not have direct face-to-face access so that the bank manager gets to know you and your business, as well as the other way around? Does the fact that you have to go to Portadown for that or to try to get them on the phone, because they are dealing with a bigger pool of businesses, have an impact? Are you picking up issues around access to lending beyond even everyday cash? Are there difficulties there? Are there delays that have a knock-on effect on businesses? Do you see any trends, or any, you know —?

Mr Knox: The trend that we see is a rise in internet-only banking as a result of the lack of banking facilities, so people who are going down the business route who deal with Starling, Monzo or Revolut and do not have an existing relationship are unable to develop a relationship because of the lack of bank managers. I know a lot of businesses locally that have left the traditional banking sector to go to the online-only banking sector, because they find it easier to use that in their business. To them, what is the difference between using a person who is local and using a person who is in a city elsewhere and who does not have a clue how their business operates? Yes, I think that you will see a trend in that there is a move away from banks that would have been traditional banks and been supportive of the sector in Northern Ireland.

Miss Hargey: Obviously, these are choices that banks make because of profit margins and all that, and that is just how they do it. As I said, however, the Financial Services and Markets Act tried to build in some protections, with banks having a social responsibility, even as private businesses. Have you thought about what additional supports could be built in, even beyond the banking hubs, if there were to be additional amendments to that legislation? Have you thought of any additional kinds of support that would work for local businesses if the banking hubs are here to stay? One key issue that we saw right away with the hub was that they are only in one day a week and you do not get to see them around the clock. Another issue is that you have to have your own tablet or phone, and so, as you said, older people who do not have those cannot get access to the service, even in the hub. What other gaps have you identified? What would you like to see? Ultimately, obviously, it would be the banks coming back, but if that does not happen, what further protections do you think could work?

Mr Knox: To go back to the earlier point, a member of staff dedicated to businesses would be crucial. To pick up on your point about needing to have your own tablet, I think that the banking hubs should be able to facilitate access through their system. The other issue — I do not know whether this was raised at the banking hub — is that there are no printing facilities.

Miss Hargey: Yes, that was raised. They are piloting it in a couple of areas, I think.

Mr Knox: Yes. They are not allowed to take documents from you. The documents have to go to Newry. If you have to submit documents, you have to hand them down to Newry. The banking hub cannot take documents. Members of staff there cannot take documents from you. If you are to submit documents, you have to go to Newry in order to do that.

Miss Hargey: You have to go to Newry anyway, then, even if [Inaudible.]

Mr Knox: Small issues such as that can be easily addressed. From a business point of view, however, I think that a dedicated business member of staff —.

Miss Hargey: Yes, who is located in the hub. That would be useful. If you think of anything else — because we are firing all these questions at you. If there is anything that you want to feed into the Committee, particularly in advance of the banks coming in next week, so that we can put it to them in a live Committee session, it would be really useful to have that lived experience out on the ground. Thank you.

Mr Knox: OK.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms Forsythe): There is no one else wanting to ask a question, so thank you very much, Alan. It has been really informative and great evidence for our inquiry. Also, thank you on a local basis — you and your colleagues at Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce — for the great work that you do. Everyone on the Committee can see how proactive and engaged you are, giving valuable feedback like that. Thank you very much for joining us today.