Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): I welcome from the Food Standards Agency (FSA) Richard Annett, food standards lead, and Sharon Gilmore, who is the head of standards and dietary health. You are very welcome. I will hand over to you for a very brief overview, and we will then ask questions.

Mr Richard Annett (Food Standards Agency NI): Thank you, Chair and members, for the opportunity to brief the Committee. I am the food standards lead for the Food Standards Agency in Northern Ireland. I am accompanied by my colleague Sharon Gilmore, head of standards and dietary health. The Food Standards Agency is an independent, non-ministerial Department, and our main objectives are to safeguard public health and protect the interests of consumers in relation to food. Our fundamental mission is "Food you can trust".

The proposed statutory rule seeks to transpose changes to the EU breakfast directives and provides enforcement for new requirements. The changes to the breakfast directives relate to the labelling, composition and marketing of honey, jams, marmalades, fruit juice and dehydrated milks, with an aim to increase transparency and inform food choices. This is achieved through introducing new requirements alongside increased flexibility and opportunity for innovation.

The Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee considered those changes in June last year and did not move to an inquiry. Since then, we have continued to engage with stakeholders and consulted on our proposed approach to transposition and enforcement. The Committee for Health will have an opportunity to scrutinise the draft rule once it is laid. Once again, thank you for this opportunity today. We are happy to take any questions that you may have.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): Thank you. I should declare at the start that I was the Chair of the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee at the time of the decision not to hold an inquiry. It was very interesting; at my age in life, it was the first time that I had fully understood the difference between marmalade and jam. [Laughter.]

You said that we will get a chance to scrutinise further in the process. From when it was in front of the WFDSC, I cannot remember what was said about the impact on businesses here. Obviously, it will have some impact on production and labelling. The FSA is saying that it will have no specific cost requirements for the Department. Will there be any cost impacts on businesses?

Mr Annett: The statutory rule will be accompanied by a regulatory impact assessment, but, to date, we have concentrated on impacts associated with familiarisation costs. Those are coming in at £1,000 for businesses and £200 for district councils. We have engaged quite thoroughly since the proposals, and, to date, there have not been any significant concerns raised or responses relating to major impacts on businesses. To our most recent consultation, we received six responses, four of which were from the honey industry, relating specifically to the honey proposals. Those raised concerns about the origin labelling of honey, and we will try to look into that further and make efforts to reach out to businesses in Northern Ireland that may be blending honeys and may be impacted on by the changes and inform them of the regulatory impact change. We did a stakeholder mapping exercise, and we know that around 109 businesses in Northern Ireland handle those commodities. Around 60 of those are honey producers, and the information that we have to date suggests that the vast majority of those businesses handle what is called single-source honey, so they are not blending honey and are not impacted on by those changes. That new information — that a few of the respondents have raised concerns about the honey origin changes — means that we are going to make efforts to identify whether we have blenders of honey in Northern Ireland and get more information.

Mrs Sharon Gilmore (Food Standards Agency NI): I will follow up on that. The £1,000 that Richard cited was calculated for the 109 businesses, not for each business.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): I understood that.

We are the Health Committee, so I will ask about the regulations' impact on the healthiness of jam, marmalade and honey.

Mr Annett: The changes take the form of new requirements on businesses and of some increased flexibilities and opportunities for innovation. The key areas include the honey changes, whereby consumers will now be able to identify, by country of origin, in order of descending weight, contributors to the blend of honey. That is more information for consumers to inform their choice. There are also changes that allow manufacturers to make a reduced-sugar fruit juice where, before, they did not have that ability. That is an alternative for a healthier choice on our shelves. The jam and marmalade changes relate to compositional changes. Jams will have more fruit and less sugar. By and large, the aims of the proposals are around informing consumer choice and making healthier choices.

Mrs Dillon: You said that you had engagement with the businesses. I assume that you had engagement with the councils as well and that they did not raise any concerns.

Mrs Gilmore: Yes. These are an extension of current criteria, so they are an amendment to current regulations.

Mrs Dillon: So, they are already doing the job.

Mrs Gilmore: They also have the same enforcement approach.

Mrs Dillon: That answers my question.

Mrs Dodds: Are these regulations not going to be adopted in GB?

Mrs Gilmore: They are being discussed across the four nations, under the common framework, but, no, they will not be adopted, as such. This is an EU directive that we are transposing, and it has to be in place by December of this year.

Mrs Dodds: What will happen if it is not transposed by December of this year? Do we stop producing honey or jam?

Mrs Gilmore: No, not as such. Do you want to say anything further, Richard?

Mr Annett: The SR is transposing — or incorporating — the rules into Northern Ireland legislation and providing enforcement for those rules. We have legislation that already adopts existing requirements here. This relates to being transposed into Northern Ireland. There are still ongoing discussions and considerations in relation to GB nations adopting similar changes. It is our understanding that we are under an obligation to transpose these in Northern Ireland by December of this year.

Mrs Dodds: I will put it into plain language: these are EU changes to an EU directive that have been made in the EU with no consultation with us, and we are simply meant to adopt our law accordingly. I will not be voting for that, because we would simply be adopting EU law. We have had no input into that EU law, and I cannot for the life of me understand why politicians in Northern Ireland do not want to make laws for their own people. That is my view. Today is a briefing, is that right?

Mr Donnelly: Obviously, there are the health benefits, which you have covered, Richard. Is it fair to say that these amendments will not impact the flow of goods from GB to Northern Ireland, and vice versa?

Mr Annett: Yes, products that are produced in Northern Ireland still have access to the UK and EU markets, and products produced in the rest of the UK will still be available on Northern Ireland shelves.

Mr Donnelly: So, there will be no impact?

Mr Annett: Not that we are aware of.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): On Diane's point, if it is not transposed into law here, producers here will not be able to export the products to the EU because they will not meet EU regulations. That would certainly be an impact.

Mr Annett: Yes, and some of the aims of the proposals, which are to increase transparency, inform consumers and provide opportunities for innovation in the industry, such as the ability to market a product as "reduced-sugar fruit juice", will not be available.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): There was consultation here and across the water, and the impact was considered to be extremely low. It is in the explanatory memorandum.

Mrs Gilmore: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): Thank you very much. Sorry, Alan wants to come in.

Mr Robinson: Of those who responded to the consultation, four expressed opposition. Were they individuals or producers?

Mr Annett: There was a mix between industry representatives and producers.

Mr Robinson: Would it be worthwhile hearing from them at some point? Can we do that, to listen to their concerns?

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): I am not saying that we can or cannot do something, but that was an issue for the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee. It went through all this and took a decision not to have an inquiry. I was the Chair at the time — I declared that interest — and we decided not to have an inquiry because we thought that the impact was extremely low and minimal. We had all the information that has been provided here, plus additional information.

Mrs Dodds: We do not, really.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): I am open to suggestions, but it is a very —. Go ahead, Linda.

Mrs Dillon: If members want to meet them, that can be done informally. We have so much on our plate. That is not to minimise anything, but this certainly is not a priority. Again, that is no disrespect to the issue, but — I am sorry — it is not a priority for the Health Committee.

The Chairperson (Mr McGuigan): From your point of view, witnesses, thank you very much for attending.