Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): This is our last meeting before the summer recess. The Committee needs to agree its consultation material and stakeholder list for the Inquiry and Redress Scheme Bill. I will ask the Clerk to speak to the suggested items for agreement. Thank you, Clerk.

The Committee Clerk: Thank you, Chair. The briefing paper on page 262 of the pack runs through what the Committee has done to date and what needs to happen before it gets to its scrutiny of the Bill. If you bear with me, I will run through a few of those things before taking us to the other items in the pack.

To remind members, the Bill formally commenced its Committee Stage on Wednesday 25 June, and the Committee agreed a couple of meetings ago, on 11 June, that the Committee Stage will be extended to 30 January 2026. That leads me on to the Committee timetable from now until then that you will find on page 265 of the pack. I do not intend to go through everything week by week, but I will highlight some areas of that.

As members have mentioned, the Committee will hold three familiarisation sessions on the Bill. The first one will be next Monday in the Long Gallery from 10.00 am until 12.00 noon. Chair, if you do not mind, I encourage members to come to that if they can. It would be helpful if we had as many members as possible there. The Committee team has already given you the agenda for that, but, very briefly, as Thomas Lough from the Assembly's Research and Information Service (RaISE) said in the previous session, it is more about giving people an understanding of what the Committee does and what it will do during its part of the Bill process. It is not really about discussing the policy of the Bill. That will come after the consultation and during the evidence sessions.

On Monday, we will spend quite a lot of time explaining to people what the Committee is, what it does, what its statutory responsibilities are in scrutinising legislation and who the Committee members are. The outreach team will then talk about the difference between the Assembly, the Committees and the Government, which, as Thomas pointed out, is very important, because a lot of people do not necessarily understand that relationship and see the Assembly as being the Government. We will talk about that. The Bill Clerk for the Bill will also come to that session and give a general overview of how a Bill works and what the different stages mean. I will then talk in a bit more detail about the Committee Stage, what the consultation will do and what the Committee seeks to do for the Bill. After that, we will perhaps have some questions and answers with those who are present.

We will show those who come that day what the Committee room looks like. Members will recall that we will have the evidence sessions not in this room but in room 21, because we feel that that room is slightly less formal and, for want of a better phrase, less intimidating. We will bring those who are present on Monday to have a look at the room. We have done a couple of videos about how they get to the Building and what happens when they get inside it. We will also show them the breakout room that will be available for people who come to give evidence. We will then go back upstairs. We will do that in two groups, because there will be quite a number of people.

By then, the consultation will be live on Citizen Space, so it will be an opportunity to show people how to get to that and how it looks so that they can start to see how to respond to the consultation. There will then be some closing remarks. Hopefully, it will give people quite a lot of detail about what the Committee is here to do. As we heard in the previous briefing, it is quite important for us as a Committee to do that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Given that, today, we are about 20 minutes behind schedule, will the breakout room be available for not just people who are feeling a wee bit overwhelmed but those who are waiting to give evidence?

The Committee Clerk: Yes. There will be a screen in the breakout room that will show the Committee proceedings, so people will be able to keep track. We will have representatives in that room and in room 21, so we will keep the communication lines open between them.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Perfect. Thank you.

The Committee Clerk: We will hold two more sessions after the summer recess. For people who perhaps did not want to come to the Building, there will be a session at the WAVE Trauma Centre in Belfast on 9 September, and for those who cannot make it physically, we will do an online session on 11 September. We will come back to members with more details on those when we are a bit further into the summer recess.

I will continue with the timetable. Our first Committee meeting when we come back will be on Wednesday 10 September. At the meeting, we will, hopefully, have analysis of some of the results from the call for evidence. The call for evidence remains open until the end of September, so there will not be a complete picture at that stage, but it may be that we can provide quite a lot of that. We will have an oral briefing from the Assembly's Research and Information Service, during which it will go through its Bill paper in a lot more detail. The Examiner of Statutory Rules will brief us on legal and delegated powers. This is not related to the Bill, but FM, DFM and the junior Ministers will also brief us at that meeting. In answer to a query from last week, I can clarify that FM, DFM and the junior Ministers are scheduled to meet us again at the end of the term, so we will have a further meeting with them in December.

If members look at page 266, they will see the second part of the timetable. We will have evidence sessions that stretch all the way to Halloween. We will, I hope, do two or three evidence sessions a week, which will allow us to get through perhaps nine or 12 sets of groups or bodies. We are looking at the possibility of doing a round-table event, which will be an ideal opportunity for more individuals to meet us. We plan to do that not in the Building but somewhere else. Again, we will have to wait until we get the consultation responses to see how many individuals responded and how we can then invite them to that event. After Halloween recess, we will have a visit, and then we will really get into the deliberation of the Bill. There will be the opportunity for a final evidence session after Halloween, if there is more that we need to do. There will, therefore, be either six or seven main evidence sessions; deliberations with members, the Bill team and the Department; informal clause-by-clause consideration; and then formal clause-by-clause consideration. That will probably get us to Christmas. After Christmas, we really need to be in the final stages. We are looking at having the draft report completed, agreed and signed off by Friday 30 January. That target does not stop us from doing it before then, but it is the absolute latest time that we can do it.

I do not know whether members have any questions about the timetable.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Hopefully, it will not take until 30 January for the Committee Stage to end, but, once we get that report signed off, how quickly will we be able to bring the Bill's Consideration Stage to the Chamber?

The Committee Clerk: That is up to the Department. It is the Department's Bill, so it is up to it when it brings forward Consideration Stage. Once our report has been published, the onus will be on the Department to move to Consideration Stage. I cannot give a definitive timeline on that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): OK. Generally, would it be a couple of weeks?

The Committee Clerk: It depends on whether the report provides lots of recommendations, but we will have a better understanding of that as we go through the process. We will liaise with the Department weekly.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): It would be preferable if the Department looked at tabling an amendment on, for example, the posthumous date. How will we formally engage with it? You said that you will speak to the Department informally, but how will we, as a Committee, engage with it throughout that two-month period of scrutiny and deliberation?

The Committee Clerk: Again, to a certain extent, it is for the Department to decide how much it wants to get involved in that, but the majority of our sessions will be open. The Departmental officials who come and listen, as they often do, will start to get a view of the evidence that comes forward. During the latter stages when we have our deliberations, the Bill Clerk will liaise very closely with the departmental team, and we will have the Bill Clerk with us as well. It will be an ongoing process. We will make sure that the Department is fully aware of where the Committee is headed.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Can we send all that to the Department so that it definitely knows?

The Committee Clerk: The timescales?

Ms Ní Chuilín: Yes.

The Committee Clerk: Absolutely.

Ms Ní Chuilín: It is important that the Department bring forward draft amendments. The Committee was quite clear about that.

On the call for evidence, has the NIO been added to that list?

The Committee Clerk: It is not on the stakeholder list, but it is for the Committee to decide that list. We can certainly add it.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I do not think that we are there yet.

The Committee Clerk: No, we will come to that in a minute.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): We will come to that in one wee minute, because I have a few suggestions as well.

The Committee Clerk: I will note it for now.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Stewart, do you have any questions about where we are so far and the timetable?

Mr Dickson: Yes, Chair. Thank you. Apologies for the poor quality of sound. My only question is about the information sessions and the evidence gathering. If there are sufficient numbers, or, indeed, even if there are small numbers, can we factor in the possibility of going out of Parliament Buildings to perhaps Derry/Londonderry, Enniskillen

, instead of adding to people's anxiety by making them travel?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): The Clerk mentioned that there will potentially be a stakeholder event somewhere else. The north-west is probably the most reasonable location on the basis of travel time.

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

Mr Kingston: Or Newry, given that Marianvale was there.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Or Newry, of course.

Mr Harvey: You mentioned moving to room 21 and the breakout room. How close is that?

The Committee Clerk: The breakout room will be in room 54, which is —.

Mr Harvey: Is it opposite room 21?

The Committee Clerk: It is round the corner and down the corridor. It is at the back end of the Senate. We picked that room because it is out of the way. This is quite a busy corridor when three Committees are running and people are sitting outside the rooms. People will be able to go from the breakout room, which is room 54, to room 21 without really coming across anybody else. We will try to make it as quiet and as sensitive as possible for people going from that room to the Committee room. That is why we picked it. Again, on Monday, we will show you, as well as everybody else, how that will work.

Mr Harvey: Great. Thank you.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Do you want to continue?

The Committee Clerk: Yes. If it is clear from the consultation responses that there is a significant number of people from a particular geographical area, there is flexibility for us to hold a session outside the Building if we need to. To be honest, it is difficult to confirm that until we get the responses.

I will move on to the engagement and communications plan on page 267. There is quite a lot in that. Needless to say, a lot of it ties in with, as Thomas told the Committee in the previous session, how the Committee will try to get out to as many people as possible to make them aware of, first, the process and the Bill and, secondly, the call for evidence and the Committee's scrutiny of the Bill.

The Assembly's community outreach team has a fairly extensive mailing list of third-sector bodies, and we will go out to all those contacts. We will also look to advertise in libraries and all GP surgeries. Hopefully, that will be another way of getting to people who would not have been reached before. The Assembly's comms team will look to advertise in the wider UK, ROI, the US, Canada and Australia. We will do paid advertising in all those countries to try to reach people outside of here who do not know about the Bill. There will be a huge amount of online content. As we talked about in a previous session, week by week during the evidence process, we will do videos and give updates on where we are, whom we have heard from and the type of evidence that we have received. Those will go online on our website. We will use the Committee website as a hub for the Bill. We will point people, via social media, to the Committee website. At the beginning of September, when we are back and visible again, a letter from the Chair and Deputy Chair will go to the editors of local and national newspapers. We will also use our YouTube channel to promote videos that have been made and will be made throughout the evidence stage.

Plenary material will be used to raise awareness of the coming inquiry. In early September when we have started our evidence sessions, we will get interviews for the Chair and, perhaps, the Deputy Chair and radio and TV coverage. There will be a big push then. We will still have a month of the consultation period to go at that stage, but we will have started our physical evidence sessions.

We will contact constituency offices and party groups and provide posters and graphics that can go up in constituency offices. If constituency offices have mailing lists, they can use those to get the information out there. There will also be liaison with the Department to see what it can do to try to drive up the number of people who know about the Bill.

I have talked about the familiarisation sessions and the familiarisation videos. There will be a guide for witnesses. We will have an Easyread written document that will give more of an understanding of what the witnesses will be there for and what the Committee will seek from them. We will also provide videos on that. During the trauma-informed training, we talked about having videos of members encouraging witnesses and offering support and guidance. We will get those ready for September, and they will be on the website. As you can see, it is a pretty detailed and informed outreach and communications plan.

Mr Harvey: Chair —.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Sorry, Harry. I have a couple of questions. There is a Committee email address for people to use if they want to get a printed copy posted out. That is good, but is it exclusionary? Should there not be a phone number?

The Committee Clerk: The press release, which we will come to, has an address, a phone number and an email address for the Committee team. That will go out in the next few days.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): The plan states:

That is clear.

So, it is not just via email that that can be requested?

The Committee Clerk: No.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I am concerned — I have raised this with you and the Assistant Committee Clerk — about the fact that the Citizen Space portal is the only show in town. As Thomas said, people may have disabilities or other difficulties. It is maybe too exclusive. Is there any way that we can move around that?

The Committee Clerk: There is the email address. Anybody, including members of the public, may decide to provide their views on the Bill via the email address. We should perhaps wait to see what happens over the course of the consultation.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): OK.

The Committee Clerk: If we find that we get a number of responses that are not coming via Citizen Space, we can come back to the Committee on that, perhaps at our first meeting in September, and look at other options. If somebody emails in, the Committee team will point them to Citizen Space, but we will not ignore the email.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): The last one is on constituency offices. I think that you said that there would be posters and stuff.

The Committee Clerk: Yes, graphics, certainly.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): When are we getting those? It would be useful to get them before the summer recess or when the call for evidence for the consultation is launched.

The Committee Clerk: At the moment, that will happen following the launch of the call for evidence. That will be in July.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Will that be next week?

The Committee Clerk: I will check the date. It will certainly be in the next while.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Do members have any other thoughts on that? Go ahead, Brian.

Mr Kingston: You might have said this, Nick, but I presume that ROI will be included in the paid-for advertising?

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I am sorry, Harry. You were going to come in earlier.

Mr Harvey: That is fine, Chair. A lot of money is being spent on advertising. Was a leaflet drop to every house considered?

The Committee Clerk: We have not considered that. We have a defined budget that we can use for the Bill. The comms and engagement team, the advice of which we take on a lot of this, felt that we could reach more people who are outside the local area if we used advertising. All our social media is free, so it can be quite targeted. I do not really understand the ins and outs of that, but that can be done. We looked at GP surgeries, libraries and other public environments where people will be, but we did not discuss a targeted leaflet drop. We can certainly take that suggestion back to the comms team. We may have an issue with budget, but we will certainly bring it back to comms.

Mr Harvey: I get that it would be a big expense and that you can do a lot more with other methods. Thank you.

Mr Gaston: I want to ask about the social media. Have we thought about asking somebody to help us push the message on social media? I am not going to use the word "ambassador"; that is not the right idea. There is TikTok and people who could do videos about it and things like that. When a message has a political narrative or comes from a government body, people just tune out. Have we given any thought to using influencers to help with some of this?

The Committee Clerk: Again, I will defer to my comms colleagues on that. We have not discussed that with them. The plan can be amended. This is more about the framework. The Assistant Clerk and I can take that back to comms and ask about it. I will be honest with you and say that, outside of Committee members, that is not something that we had looked at. We will take that back. I have to defer to the comms team a little bit on that, because it has the guys with the know-how.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): We will move on the press statement.

The Committee Clerk: Members have a copy of the draft press release that notes that the Committee is beginning its work on the scrutiny of the Bill. The press release notes the familiarisation sessions that we are holding, not just the one on Monday but the two in September. It details how people can make their submissions and includes our email address. I wonder whether it might be worth putting the —.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): That is what I was pointing to earlier.

The Committee Clerk: We can do that, and we can put a physical address on it as well.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): We need to specify that the form for the call for evidence can be emailed out. That needs to be clarified.

The Committee Clerk: That is fine. We can definitely put that in. That is not a problem. Do members have any comments on the press release? It is relatively standard, to be honest.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): It is fine.

Ms Ní Chuilín: It is standard. Thomas mentioned sign language. We could consult on having a Braille version. I cannot remember the name of the largest charity that is involved in that.

The Committee Clerk: Off the top of my head, I do not know. Again, I can speak to colleagues in the Committee for Communities, who are going through a consultation on the Sign Language Bill.

Ms Ní Chuilín: So they are.

The Committee Clerk: I can certainly speak to them to see whether there are any further routes that we could use for that. That is not a problem.

Finally, after the press release, there is the stakeholder list that has come through from RaISe to consider. Obviously, that is its suggested list of different types of stakeholders that the Committee could contact to invite them to respond to the consultation. It also provides the Committee with the start of a list of who it may wish to invite to the evidence sessions when we get to September. I want to highlight to members a couple of institutions and names that I am not sure are relevant. One is the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse, which is under the heading "Public Bodies". That is very much a historical institutional abuse (HIA) organisation. There is nothing to stop it being consulted, but I am not sure that it is necessarily relevant. I will take members' views on that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): The only thing that I would say is that, when it put the leaflet out, a lot of people came forward about non-recent child abuse.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Advice NI, which is an independent advice network, is listed as a consultee. That is fine. The reason why I asked about that is because we need to have representatives from the NIO who were there before devolution. They may be listed as an organisation. Even the PSNI report mentioned organisations that we are not familiar with.

The Committee Clerk: I actually made a note that I think that there may be omissions in the paragraph that is labelled "Religious and Charitable Bodies". Again, I ask the Committee to bear with us while we go back to see what else we can identify on that, because I think that, as you say, there are a couple of actual institutions we were not aware of.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): There are a couple more. You have Survivors and Victims of Institutional Abuse (SAVIA) and the Rosetta Trust. You do not have Survivors North West or Survivors Together, and, then, the legal representation —.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Phoenix Law.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Yes, Phoenix Law.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Phoenix Law is representing a lot of the people.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Does anybody else have any suggestions about who they think could be on that list?

Ms Ní Chuilín: There is the bureau in Washington.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Yes, for the diaspora.

The Committee Clerk: That is a very good point.

Ms Ní Chuilín: There is the bureau in Washington and the bureau in Brussels, even. There are international groups that have already been established. I would include them under the heading "International Community Support". Can we even put in the British and Irish consulates?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Yes. Those are good ideas. Does anybody else have any ideas?

The Committee Clerk: Chair, I would say to members that, if ideas arrive, they should certainly feel free to email them, and we can add them to the list. We can agree this list with those additions now, but, again, via correspondence, if there are other institutions, we can certainly agree those in the future.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I wonder whether you could go to the consultation forum and ask whether it has any other suggestions.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Definitely.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Or even the TEO directorate that is overseeing this. Maybe you have already done that. Have you?

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Sorry.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Can we compare and contrast the religious bodies that are in the Irish Government's scheme? The PSNI was able to identify ones that we were not aware of. Many of those, in fact, all of them, are all-island bodies. It would be helpful to see whether others are out there.

The Committee Clerk: OK. That is fine.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): OK. Members, thank you for all that. Is that everything?

The Committee Clerk: There is one more thing, which is, perhaps, the most important: the consultation questions. Members will find them in the tabled pack. I will give members an understanding of how the consultation process works on Citizen Space. We will provide a text box for every clause of the Bill, of which there are over 60. There will be the opportunity for anybody to respond to any Part or clause of the Bill. We will also provide what we call a free text box, which we will limit to a certain extent, because, as Thomas said in the previous session, we need to try to keep it succinct.

Ms Ní Chuilín: For the clauses?

The Committee Clerk: No. There will be free text boxes at the beginning that will say, "Outside the clauses, do you have any other thoughts?". There will be a box for each clause, and respondents can go to those. However, we have also picked out questions that we thought were relevant to particular clauses throughout the three Parts of the Bill. Most of those are in Part 1, which deals with the inquiry, and Part 2, which is about redress. The other thing that we tried to do is lighten some of the language around the clauses. In the actual questions, we have explained particular terms in slightly broader language or framed the question in a way that tries to loosen the legalese of some of the clauses.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Can I just make a point? Brian might be able to comment on this, but the terminal illness payment relates to where death is reasonably expected within six months, rather than 12 months, I think.

Ms Murphy: That is DFC legislation.

Ms Ní Chuilín: I think that it is DFC.

The Committee Clerk: I will look at that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): What clause is that?

Ms Ní Chuilín: It is clause 34.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): It says "12 months" in clause 34(2).

Ms Ní Chuilín: Aye, but I think that it is six months.

Mr Kingston: I thought that it was 12 months.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Is it 12 months?

The Committee Clerk: It is 12 months in the Bill, yes.

Ms Ní Chuilín: I know that it is 12 months in the Bill, but the DFC definition is six months.

Ms Murphy: Or DWP's.

Ms Ní Chuilín: I am nearly sure that it is six months for the terminal illness payment.

Ms Murphy: I think that you are right, because I tabled a question to Gordon a few weeks ago asking him to clarify that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I suppose the clause is really about giving priority to people who are terminally ill.

Ms Ní Chuilín: I know, but if one section of our Government says that you can receive a terminal illness payment if you are not going to live past six months, it would be a mistake not to have that in the Bill. That has not come from us; the Department brought it forward, but if we are putting it in questions and it is not right —. Sorry. It is not that it is not right.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): It is not consistent.

Ms Ní Chuilín: If it is not consistent, that is an issue for us.

The Committee Clerk: I think that we will just have to go back to the Department. At the end of the day, the Bill is as it is published.

Ms Ní Chuilín: I know.

The Committee Clerk: We have to reflect the Bill as published, but there is nothing to stop people reflecting that. We have a question on that particular clause, but we can note that issue for now and bring it back when we get to the consultancy bit.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): These are, obviously, just the questions that we are talking about, but in the survey, you will provide the wording of the clause. Is that right?

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): That is OK. It is about making it easy to read.

The Committee Clerk: Each clause will have the wording and a text box, but, for certain clauses, we will also have a question to point people to those clauses. Sorry, go ahead.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I was just clarifying that.

The Committee Clerk: Yes. Each clause will be there, and respondents can look at them. Chair, I ask that we get members' views on those questions and on whether members think that they are on the right clauses. As I said, they are not set in stone, but we need to agree them today, because the consultation has to be uploaded in the next couple of days. Can we get members' views?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I am content with them. My only question is about how we were thinking at one time that we might do two consultations — one for organisations and one for individuals, if you remember. Will there be just one?

The Committee Clerk: Yes. There will. However, the organisations will perhaps look more at the clause-by-clause version. The clauses that we have not asked specific questions on are really the more technical aspects of the Bill. They can respond to those.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Sorry, I just googled the terminal illness payment. It is 12 months, but you can get a quicker payment if a GP says that you are not expected to live longer than six months.

The Committee Clerk: We will note that.

Mr Kingston: We will keep it at 12 months, then. That brings more people into it.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Yes. We could add something to the Bill.

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

Mr Kingston: Six months is even quicker and gives it a higher priority.

Ms Ní Chuilín: There is something about quicker payments in the questions on clause 34.

Mr Kingston: On a minor point, in the list of draft questions, the question relating to clause 34 states:

The words "be given" are not needed. It should just say, "gives priority to applications".

The Committee Clerk: Good spot. Thank you.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Does anybody else have any questions or comments?

Ms Ní Chuilín: The question on clause 38 is under the heading "Right to Appeal". The explanatory and financial memorandum refers to 30 days from when the appeal is lodged.

The Committee Clerk: Clause 38(2)(a) says that it is within:

Ms Ní Chuilín: Yes, within 30 days of being notified of a decision. I am not being pedantic, but is that 30 calendar days? What way is that?

Mr Harvey: Is it 30 working days?

Ms Ní Chuilín: If it was working days, I think that it would say "working days". The clause then states that the "Service may" extend the deadline "in exceptional circumstances". Can we just put that in as well so that people know? "Exceptional circumstances" really do need to be exceptional.

The Committee Clerk: The clause will be listed with the box underneath and the question, so, yes, respondents will see that.

Mr Kingston: The last question under the heading "Right of Appeal" states:

Are any support services proposed in the Bill? That happened with HIA.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): In some ways, they already exist with, for example, WAVE, Adopt NI and the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS). Under HIA, they were recommended and then set up, but such services have already been set up.

The Committee Clerk: The advisory panel for the inquiry and the redress panel, when we get to that point, would have capacity to look at that further. There is nothing in the Bill about requiring an organisation or service to be set up, because —

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): The services are already there.

Ms Ní Chuilín: That has already been done.

The Committee Clerk: Yes.

Mr Kingston: Are those services not just for people under HIA criteria?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Remember when we came here and they said that they were setting up their own building? I think that we are going to see it in September as part of our familiarisation.

Mr Kingston: Right.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): They are already accessing it. That is not to say that it is enough. Maybe they will say that they need more as a result of this, but, at the minute, there is something there.

Mr Kingston: Would mothers who gave birth be given priority access to either counselling or support services?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): They have access to a specific service.

Mr Kingston: OK.

The Committee Clerk: Chair, if we could just seek agreement on all that.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Are members agreed on all that?