Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): The Committee will now receive evidence from departmental officials on the Administrative and Financial Provisions Bill. The evidence session will be recorded by Hansard. I welcome Giulia and Ryan from the Department. We are happy to have you here, and I hand over to you to give a short introduction to the Bill.

Ms Giulia Ní Dhulchaointigh (Department for the Economy): Good morning, Chair and members of the Committee. Thank you for the invitation to speak with you about the clauses for which DFE is responsible in the Administrative and Financial Provisions Bill and to answer any questions or provide any further information that you may require to aid your consideration of those clauses. You may recall that we provided a briefing in September 2024 on the consultation on the draft proposals. That consultation attracted a small number of responses, which were mainly positive. At the time, the Committee had no substantive comments and indicated that it was content. The proposals were finalised with no material change. As a result, what you see today is largely the same content as presented a year ago but with the drafting done.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Perfect.

Ms Ní Dhulchaointigh: We also provided a written briefing in advance of the meeting with more detail on each clause. The Department of Finance is leading on and progressing the Bill, and a number of Departments, including ours, have inputted into it. Officials have been involved in a cross-departmental working group on the Bill and have provided input to the explanatory memorandum, the finalisation of the draft Bill and other documents.

Broadly, Department has six clauses in the Bill. Clause 2 relates to DFE's power to provide financial assistance and provides the power for DFE to form limited companies. Clause 3 relates to the power to make loan funding available to the higher education sector. Clause 4 relates to updating the Employment and Training Act (Northern Ireland)1950 to bring it in line with normal departmental delegations. Clause 5 relates to the power of Tourism NI (TNI) to classify or grade tourist amenities. Clause 15 relates to the ability of TNI to charge fees and provide DFE with the power to exempt or remit certain fees in exceptional circumstances; and clause 19 relates to the requirement for separate mineral and petroleum cash accounts, the transactions of which are already included in the main DFE resource accounts. As you will see, those provisions relate to many different areas in the Department. Ryan and I have been pulling this together with the help of colleagues in a range of different areas.

The proposals were developed in response to Audit Office comments or to address historical deficits in legislation or issues where there was lack of clarity in legislation or areas where the legislation was required to comply with 'Managing Public Money NI'. We seek to ensure that DFE is equipped, via legislation, for issues that face the Department today and that are within the constraints of the Bill; that is, issues that are largely technical, financial or non-controversial and that are not complex enough or significant enough to merit their own primary legislation. We are happy to answer any questions that the Committee has on those clauses.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Thank you very much indeed, Giulia. As you have said, your introduction includes most of the issues that the Committee was briefed on a year ago. I have one question in relation to the limited companies: does the Department have a view on where it sees the creation of a limited company?

Ms Ní Dhulchaointigh: Yes. We did an exercise as we were preparing, when we knew that the Department of Finance was going to launch the Bill. We looked across the Department for issues that had arisen in the past 10 years. People who have been in the Department longer than I have highlighted that as an issue: they remembered the Department having the power but that it had lost it in the transfer of powers to Invest NI and that that delivery option was not open to the Department in some instances, such as the air route development scheme, where Invest NI was asked to set up a company. We would foresee it as being relatively seldom used, but another delivery option —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): It is better to have the power than to not have it.

Ms Ní Dhulchaointigh: Exactly.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): That makes sense. Thank you.

Ms D Armstrong: Thank you for coming along this morning. That was my point. I was going to ask about clause 2, seeking vires to manage the financial transactions capital and the grant and loan schemes. How does that compare with the remit of Invest NI, which, traditionally, would be seen as the grant-giver, the funder, for economic investment?

Ms Ní Dhulchaointigh: That clause largely relates to issues that arose during COVID. The transfer of powers between the Department and Invest NI happened at a time when no one foresaw an economic shock of the scale of that shutdown of the economy. That brought to light issues where the Audit Office highlighted that the Department did not have adequate powers to run some of the COVID schemes, so that is the origin of the clause. Invest NI needed those powers, but the Department also needed similar powers.

The need to manage areas where legislation overlaps is why we included the provision for the Department to issue a statement of its general approach. We want to ensure that there is no impact from that on the work of other Departments that might also impact on the economy or our arm's-length bodies, including Invest NI. We have consulted Invest NI on that, and it is content with it. It is largely about ensuring that the Department has adequate powers in the event of another economic shock of that nature.

Ms D Armstrong: Is it almost like an emergency power?

Ms Ní Dhulchaointigh: It is not written as an emergency power, but yes, it is about ensuring that there are adequate powers. COVID taught us that it is hard to foresee the circumstances that will arise, so it is a general power, but that is its origin: to be better prepared for future issues.

Ms D Armstrong: Thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): There are no other questions from colleagues. Members are content with the previous briefing and with how you have covered the issues. Thank you very much indeed.