Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): From Invest Northern Ireland, I am delighted to welcome Kieran Donoghue, chief executive; Anne Beggs, chief commercial officer; Kathryn Hill, chief operating officer; and from the Department for the Economy, Mark Lee, the acting head of economic policy. Thank you for your service to the Northern Ireland economy. I congratulate you all, Mark included, on your recent appointments. We are delighted to have you back. I invite Kieran to make an opening statement.

Mr Kieran Donoghue (Invest NI): Good morning, Chair and members, and thank you for inviting me and my colleagues to attend the Committee this morning. I have been asked to address three specific items: Invest NI's annual report and performance in the first year of our new strategy, entitled 'Our Future in Focus'; the recent review of investments, as requested by the Minister for the Economy, which was published on 13 October; and progress on the implementation of the recommendations in the Lyons review.

I am pleased to be joined by two of the recently appointed members of our reshaped executive committee and our colleague Mark Lee from the Department for the Economy. On my left is Anne Beggs, who became our chief commercial officer on 1 May 2025 and now leads our clients and local markets group. Anne's team manages our relationships with existing clients, local and international, and will work to ensure that those companies are reinvesting in Northern Ireland, while simultaneously seeking to attract new inward investment and connect our clients with commercial opportunities in external markets. On my right is Kathryn Hill, who joined as chief operating officer on 19 May and brings a wealth of experience from her previous role as director of the Active Communities division at the Department for Communities. Kathryn oversees our corporate services group, which includes all the functions that are necessary for the efficient and effective operation of the agency, including finance and compliance, HR, comms and marketing etc. We are also preparing to welcome Alison Currie as our chief development officer (CDO). Alison will start on 5 January, and she joins us from InterTrade Ireland, where she is director of innovation and entrepreneurship. She will lead our regional development agenda, regional business group, city and growth deals, land and property and a brand new client solutions group. The executive team is completed by two colleagues who are not present today: Paula Logue, our director of people and culture, and Peter Harbinson, director of communications and marketing. With that strengthened and restructured team in place, we are well positioned to deliver our current strategy; commence the next phase in the restructuring of Invest NI; and support the achievement of the Minister's economic vision.

That brings me to the first of the key agenda items that was requested by the Committee. In October this year, we laid our annual report before the Assembly. The report confirmed that Invest NI came in on budget and received a very satisfactory audit report. The Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland reviewed our financial statements and concluded with an unqualified audit opinion without modification and with zero priority 1 recommendations in respect of regularity and the internal control environment. I thank Kathryn and Invest NI's finance team for delivering that outcome.

We are just past the midpoint of our new, three-year strategy. As members will be aware, our strategy is centred around supporting delivery of the priorities of the Minister and the Assembly: increased productivity, good jobs, regional balance and a low carbon economy. We released a very strong set of first-year results against our business strategy. By way of example, we set a target in the first year of our strategy to win a minimum of 1,500 investments, and we delivered north of 2,000 investments; we set a target to win a minimum of 60% of all our investments outside the Belfast metropolitan area, and we achieved 59%, so, there was a slight undershoot there; we set a total investment target of £525 million and delivered £634 million; we set a target for spend by our clients in research, development and innovation of £160 million and delivered £245 million; we set a jobs-approved target of 3,000 and delivered 3,020; and we set a new inward investment target, for individual projects, and delivered 19. Those results demonstrate an organisation that is fully mobilised and engaged around delivery of the organisation's strategy and of converting investment opportunities.

On our regional balance priority, we have hired four of the five new heads of regional business. Our incoming CDO, Alison Currie, will chair the hiring board for the fifth and final post early next year. We gave a commitment to increase the headcount in our regional office network by approximately 20 roles. We have hired 15 to date, and hiring is continuing. I also recently held a series of stakeholder engagement events across our regional network. Those regular discussions with stakeholders, particularly in the regional offices, are very important because they illustrate a more open, engaged and collaborative Invest NI. We are open to and have embraced a partnership approach to the implementation of our strategy, as evidenced by our work with the universities, colleges, local councils, the Advanced Manufacturing Innovation Centre, the Artificial Intelligence Collaboration Centre and many others. We do that on the basis of shared goals, mutual respect and reciprocity.

Whilst we do not formally report at mid-year, I assure the Committee that, based on our work in progress and delivery in the current year, we are on a good trajectory to deliver against most of our year 2 targets. In that context, the recent announcement by Bank of America of a major new investment for Belfast, Seagate's announcement of a major R&D project in the north-west, EY's announcement of a new investment in the north-west, plus the acquisition of Alchemy Technology Services in the north-west by the Japanese corporate NTT DATA are all very encouraging developments. That does not mean that we are in any way complacent: we need to continue to build our pipeline of work that is in progress for this year and beyond.

After 20 months of implementing our new strategy, we remain ambitious and cautiously optimistic about the Northern Ireland economy. The source of the optimism, as ever, is the quality of the conversations that we are having with our client companies across Northern Ireland. They remain ambitious, resilient and willing to invest in the activities that are necessary for growth, whether that be leadership, capital equipment, R&D and innovation, customer-supplier relationships, supply chain optimisation, automation, AI or market development. By focusing on external sales growth and leveraging our unique dual market access, Northern Ireland is outperforming all other regions in the United Kingdom when it comes to sustained growth in goods and exports to the European Union.

Our caution relates to infrastructure and budget constraints, cost competitiveness and skills availability here at home; and tariffs and geopolitical and general market uncertainty abroad. Therefore, we need to remain alert to risks, such as the potential for a stock market correction, an AI bubble, debt sustainability, changes in international tariffs or regulations, shadow banking and recession, and to how those risks, individually and collectively, could impact on the real economy that our clients inhabit. Our job, as ever, will be to assist our clients to see and capture the opportunities for investment and growth while addressing associated challenges.

We have just completed a midterm review of our current strategy, and we are still content with the priorities and the progress that has been made to date. We therefore do not propose to make any fundamental changes to the strategy. In addition, we are preparing a high-level road map and timeline for the development of a successful strategy that we propose to have ready by the summer of 2027.

I turn briefly to the second agenda item, which is the review of investment report. Members will be aware that the Minister requested Invest NI to undertake a review of investments made since 7 October 2023 to ensure that we had not financially supported projects that manufactured arms or their components for supply to Israel. That review confirmed that we had not supported any such projects and have a transparent and robust multi-stage appraisal and approval process in place. Invest NI's interventions are focused on developing companies' capabilities and competitiveness by supporting projects in areas such as R&D and innovation, skills and market development. I appreciate that members may have further questions on that, but you will be aware of ongoing legal proceedings on the matter that, respectfully, may limit my ability to provide more detailed responses.

I am pleased to report that, as of today, 29 of 35 recommendations in the independent review have been successfully implemented. One further action will be completed by the end of the calendar year, leaving five outstanding actions as of January 2026. Of the remaining five actions, Invest NI is taking the lead on three, and my colleagues in the Department are taking the lead on two. That progress reflects significant organisational effort over the past two years. Delivery of the full suite of recommendations is scheduled to finish in 2027, in line with the independent action plan. It is, therefore, fair to say that the substantial majority of the recommendations in the Lyons review have been implemented.

Finally, in my near two years as CEO of Invest NI, I have seen a remarkable shift in attitudes towards and engagement with the agency. As you will appreciate, I spend a lot of time meeting our clients, stakeholders and others in all parts of Northern Ireland and overseas, and the feedback that I have received about Invest NI has been overwhelmingly positive. Clients and stakeholders see and feel a difference in Invest NI, which fills me with great optimism. That is not to say that there has not been occasional criticism as well, but, in general, there has been a significant swing to the positive and increased recognition and respect for what we are trying to do, which is build a stronger enterprise economy across Northern Ireland.

I end by thanking the Minister, the Committee, our chair and board, colleagues at the Department for the Economy and our clients for supporting our work over the past two years. Last but never least, I am grateful, as ever, to all the staff at Invest: without their hard work, dedication and passion for public service we would not be successfully delivering the strategy.

I am happy to take any questions that members may have.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Kieran, thank you, as always, for your work and for your presentation.

If you are content, I will start with agenda item 2. I know that, given the current legal action, you cannot go into huge detail. When talking about the review of investments that you undertook, you used diplomatic language. You said that the Minister "requested" that you do a review. Was it requested or instructed?

Mr Donoghue: My understanding is that it was a request. I did not receive any instruction, in the strict sense of the word, to do the review of investments. It was a request conveyed to us by colleagues in the Department.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): When it comes to your overview of the conclusions that you came to, there was one that you did not include. You talked about it only briefly. Paragraph 3 of the foreword to your useful report talks about the importance of the aerospace, defence and security sector to the Northern Ireland economy. Will you detail some of that to the Committee today?

Mr Donoghue: The aerospace, defence and security sector comprises 120 client companies that employ 9,000 people across Northern Ireland. That sector has been responsible for aggregate turnover of north of £2 billion. The sector also employs about 500 apprentices, and some very high-profile, both domestic and international, companies work in the sector. We see it as an area of further opportunity for the Northern Ireland economy, and, in the review of investments, we included a number of paragraphs that drew readers' attention to that. We remain committed to the development of the sector in line with current policies and regulations.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Do you see further opportunities in that sector? Last week, I had the privilege of visiting Collins Aerospace in Kilkeel in south Down, which informed me that, as a result of its partnership with Thompson Aero Seating, Northern Ireland is now producing one in two of the aeroplane seats that are used in the entire world. That is, obviously, a massive story for Northern Ireland. It is part of that wider RTX Corporation, which is one of the biggest companies in the entire world. What further work do you think that Invest Northern Ireland can do to ensure that that industry is supported and continues to grow?

Mr Donoghue: First, I do see further opportunity. That sector is a very broad church. You have aerospace, both civilian and military; you have defence, both pure-play defence and defence-related activities; and you have space. We see opportunities across that broad spectrum. The recent strategic defence review that was concluded by the Government and the decision to develop a cybersecurity hub in Northern Ireland are evidence of a commitment to that sector by the UK Government, and that is an opportunity for us to build upon. To further develop that sector, it is about preparing an up-to-date target list of international companies that we want to engage with to encourage them to invest in Northern Ireland while continuing to talk to existing clients that are already here to make sure that we are aligned with their development plans and potential. We are already doing that.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I just want to see what changed for Invest Northern Ireland, if anything. I assume that the review that you undertook was a pretty substantial piece of work. After receiving the instruction/request to carry that out, you reached conclusions about the importance of the sector to the Northern Ireland economy but also concluded that there was no issue or case to answer. Is that correct?

Mr Donoghue: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): The written ministerial statement that was published states that the Department:

Have you been given that new framework?

Mr Donoghue: No. The review of investments report was published, as you know. It is there for everybody to read, and I think that people broadly welcomed its conclusions. The Minister made a statement in the Assembly to accompany the publication of the report, in which she referred —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Unfortunately, she did not. She issued a written ministerial statement, which —

Mr Donoghue: Oh, was it a written ministerial statement? Forgive me.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): — was not subject to scrutiny.

Mr Donoghue: OK. Forgive me. The Minister then made a statement — that is my understanding — in which she said that she was instructing officials to begin work to develop an ethical investment framework. Our colleagues in the Department are working on that ethical investment framework, and we look forward to seeing and reading it in due course.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): The second conclusion from the Minister's written ministerial statement was that the Department:

Do you have any idea who will define what genocide is or is not?

Mr Donoghue: My understanding is that the Department now has to develop a policy to give effect to the Minister's statement to the Assembly. That policy will combine the ethical investment framework, and it will provide the necessary guidance to us in Invest NI so that we can consider how best to operationalise the Minister's intentions. That policy and the ethical investment framework are works in progress.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): The statement also says that the Department:

I assume that Invest NI would never have any role in UK Government trade negotiations or discussions?

Mr Donoghue: My understanding is that trade is not a devolved responsibility, so UK Government officials will pursue those trade talks as normal. Invest NI is not directly involved in those.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): It took a 16-page document and months of work to conclude that there was no case to answer, and no changes have been implemented or asked of Invest Northern Ireland at this stage. You await a policy direction from the Minister, which she said, in a statement that she published to the Assembly two months ago, she would do, but we have received no update on that.

Mark, are you responsible for trying to develop that policy?

Mr Mark Lee (Department for the Economy): Yes, I will draw a distinction. There is the ethical investment framework that the Minister has talked about. Work is ongoing on that, and we have had a few conversations with some people with expertise in that area on how take that forward. It will take a while for us to develop that framework. In the second bullet point in her written ministerial statement, the Minister talks about ensuring:

There is probably a slightly shorter-term piece of work there, which will involve discussing with Invest NI how we operationalise that.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Who will define genocide?

Mr Lee: That is to be confirmed. The Minister will express a view on that.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Will she decide who is committing genocide and who is not?

Mr Lee: I imagine that we will draw on some international standards, including whether a UN committee has confirmed that genocide is being committed.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): In that case, the UN will be the ultimate arbiter of economic policy.

Mr Lee: The Minister has not made a final decision, but, obviously, that is one option.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): It seems strange, Mark, that the statement was made two months ago, and we have seen no progress. Some may conclude that it was a political move rather than an economic one.

I just want to check something. You were at the meeting on 20 October 2025 with the special adviser, Ian Snowden and Richard Rodgers, when the issue was discussed with the Minister. Is that correct?

Mr Lee: A meeting with the Committee?

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): It was a meeting in Parliament Buildings, and it was a weekly update with the permanent secretary and the Minister.

Mr Lee: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): A document with the contents of that meeting has just been released in response to a freedom of information request, although most of them, unfortunately, have been blacked out. The final point was:

Would you have been providing that briefing on trade with Israel?

Mr Lee: Yes, we had previously provided those details to the Minister. The numbers were in advice that had previously been provided to her, so she would have been familiar with them.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Could you talk to the Committee today about Northern Ireland's current trade with Israel?

Mr Lee: Yes, I will just need to find the numbers to make sure that I do not misspeak on them. Off the top of my head, I think that there is around £45 million of exports. It is either our —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): If you do not have the detail there, that is fine. You can come back to the Committee on that. Were you involved in the drafting of the written ministerial statement that was published on the review of investments?

Mr Lee: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): OK, no problem. I have a few questions about that. The opening paragraph concludes by saying that we have a moral duty:

Will you outline the work that the Minister is undertaking to move along that aim?

Mr Lee: I think that the Minister was making a broad statement there about our requirements under international law. Again, that is set in the context of what she said about developing an ethical investment framework, the position on trade talks and getting the assurance that we need around grant support for companies.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): OK. She concludes with:

What is the Minister's view on the borders of Palestine as defined in her statement?

Mr Lee: You would need to ask the Minister that.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Did you not help to draft that statement?

Mr Lee: I did help to draft the statement, yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Did you write that line?

Mr Lee: No.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Who wrote that line?

Mr Lee: I do not know. What I would say is that, obviously, the final version of that is signed off by the Minister, so it reflects her views and her decision.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): No problem, that is fine.

Kieran, I want to touch base on some of the really good success stories that have come recently. You touched on some of those in the north-west and with Bank of America. As Chair of this Committee and as economic spokesperson for the party, I warmly welcome — because the Minister has not — the investment by Bank of America. I thank you all for your hard work and dedication in securing that, not just for Belfast but for Northern Ireland plc.

I read with interest last night, Kieran, an article in 'The Irish Times' yesterday about the chief executive of Manufacturing Northern Ireland. You will recall that I asked you, last time you were here, to outline some of the foreign direct investment that had been secured as a result of dual market access. At that stage, it was your view, though — you can correct me if I am misquoting you — that you had not been able to identify any major international investment as a result of that. In 'The Irish Times' interview, Manufacturing NI said that it accepted that few foreign companies had set up in Northern Ireland since the Windsor framework to try to exploit dual market access. Have you an update for the Committee on additional FDI that has been secured? Obviously, Bank of America and others that you outlined are under the services sector, which is not constrained by the parameters of the Windsor framework and the protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland. Do you have an update for the Committee on those?

Mr Donoghue: Anne, would you like to provide the Committee with an update on that?

Ms Anne Beggs (Invest NI): I can, yes. From the FDI perspective specifically, I think that it has been discussed at Committee before that FDI decision-making is genuinely made on the basis of a range of factors. It is either not appropriate or not possible to appropriate foreign direct investment exclusively to dual market access, and that is a challenge that we have regarding our investments. I am certainly seeing, and we see across the senior executive team, proposals being brought forward from existing manufacturers. The advantage of dual market access is being considered as a factor, certainly in the expansion plans that we are seeing coming through, but net new FDI exclusively on the back of dual market access is quite difficult to identify, given the decision-making process that investors go through.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I understand that it is difficult. Do you maybe have three examples for the Committee?

Ms Beggs: We have some in the pipeline, which are probably at an early stage.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): The Windsor framework has been in place now for just over four years. I do not expect you to give me 10, 20 or 30 examples of FDI that have been secured as a result of dual market access, but if you could maybe give us just three.

Ms Beggs: We have a number in the pipeline.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Sure.

Ms Beggs: Unfortunately, I cannot reveal them because of commercial sensitivity.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I understand, and I do not want you to go into commercial sensitivity, but if you could just give me three examples of FDI companies that set up in the past four years as a result of dual market access in Northern Ireland, and how many jobs that has created.

Ms Beggs: We cannot attribute dual market access exclusively to the establishment of any FDI in the past four years.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Sorry, will you say that again?

Ms Beggs: We cannot attribute any manufacturing FDI in the past four years exclusively to the factor of dual market access because there are a range of —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): What about even just one example?

Ms Beggs: No, I think that it would probably be more on the expansion side.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): OK. Zero examples of that. It is important to state that we had the chief executive of Manufacturing Northern Ireland saying that in 'The Irish Times' yesterday. Kieran, as chief executive of Invest NI, said that two years ago. Conor Murphy, the Minister for the Economy, was unable to give us an example, and you are not able to give us an example at this stage. I understand that totally, and thank you for that.

Mr Delargy: On the position that you set out there, Chair, I want to clarify the position on ethical procurement. It is not just the UN that has said that. I will give you a list of some of the organisations. We have the UN's independent commission of inquiry. We also have the International Court of Justice. We have the UN General Assembly, the UN special rapporteur, a panel of independent UN experts, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Médecins Sans Frontières and numerous other humanitarian organisations. So, for anybody who is confused on the position, it has been set out very clearly that the ethical procurement strategy has been put in place to prevent genocide. That has been the overall objective, and that is listening to those organisations. It is not a political issue. It is a humanitarian issue, and it is about upholding international law. There should be absolutely no ambiguity around that position. That is all that I am going to say on this today. I do not think that we should make a political issue out of it. It is one of international law, upholding international law and human rights.

To move back to the main presentation —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Pádraig, before you do —

Mr Delargy: Chair I —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): — I am not going to —.

Mr Delargy: Sorry, Chair, I did not interrupt —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): No, Pádraig, I am the Chair of the Committee — [Inaudible.]

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): — so I get to speak, and then I will bring you back in. I am not going to interrupt your question.

Mr Delargy: Finish my point.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): You said that you wanted to clarify an issue of ambiguity, but you have stated a fact that is incorrect. You said that an ethical framework has been put in place. Both Invest Northern Ireland and your Minister's adviser here have stated that it has not been put in place at this stage, but that it is being developed. If we are going to avoid ambiguity, we need to be factual in what we say. Continue with your questions.

Mr Delargy: I did not interrupt you, so please do not interrupt me. I am going to ask my questions.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Please get on with it.

Mr Delargy: Sorry?

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Please get on with asking your questions, then, Pádraig. There are others who want to ask questions

Mr Delargy: I do not think that that is an appropriate way to speak to a member of this Committee, Chair. You should withdraw that remark.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Pádraig, if you want to ask questions, go ahead. You cannot state inaccurate remarks in the Committee, as you started off by doing. I will always, as Chair of the Committee, facilitate debate and discussion, but I will not allow things to be read into the record of the Committee that are factually incorrect. You stated that the Minister has put in place an ethical framework. I am not sure whether you listened to what Invest Northern Ireland and Mr Lee said. They clearly stated that that is not in place at this stage. If you have questions to ask, I will facilitate your asking them, as I always do.

Mr Delargy: Chair, I would appreciate it if you spoke to members of the Committee with more respect than you have just done. I will now ask my questions.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Please go ahead.

Mr Delargy: Thank you to Invest for coming in today, and thank you for your presentation. The figures speak clearly to the fact that consistent and ongoing work has been done to enhance the economy across the North. I want to raise two questions, one of which is around your regional balance strategy. Will you update the Committee, first and foremost, on what you are doing regarding the office in Derry? I know that there has been good work there with regard to strengthening our approach in the north-west and Invest's capacity in the north-west. I just want an update on what is happening there and on how the good work that you have been doing there is being built upon.

Mr Donoghue: I thank the member. As the Committee will be aware, Invest Northern Ireland has had an office in the north-west, in Derry/Londonderry — on Timber Quay — for more than 20 years. That property has been purchased by Ulster University, which is going to use it for educational purposes. For that reason, and for other reasons, we believe that that location is no longer suitable for our needs as Northern Ireland's economic development agency. Therefore, for quite some time now, we have been looking at alternative property options in the north-west. We have reduced our search to two options, and we are finalising our review of those options. We expect to submit a business case to the Department for the Economy and, in turn, the Department of Finance any day now. Once that business case is approved, it will lead to our establishing a brand new office in the north-west. That office will be aligned with the strategy of the organisation and the image that we want to project to local and international investors. It will also future-proof our presence in the north-west, because it will allow for organic expansion in the number of executives on the ground doing business on regional development work. I hope to be in a position to confirm our selection and, hopefully, the approval of the business case with the Committee as soon as possible.

Mr Delargy: Great; that is encouraging. Thank you for that update. I appreciate the work. The team, locally, has been excellent, and there is so much capacity there to continue to develop in the north-west.

My second question is around research and development — you know that it is an issue that I am very interested in. You mentioned the statistics, particularly around the companies in the north-west that have been enhancing that R&D offering. Are there any new companies that you are working with? As a second part to that question, what engagement is there with local education institutions — for example, universities and further education colleges — to try to create links and relationships between colleges, universities and industries?

Mr Donoghue: On the first point, Pádraig, as you know, we have a very large portfolio of 3,500 clients, and, relative to the size of the portfolio, not enough of those clients are doing research and development and innovation. So we have it as a priority in our strategy to get more of our existing clients to do R&D and innovation, and I am glad to report that the number doing R&D and innovation is now higher as a consequence of what we delivered in the first year of our strategy. Over the past 20 months, our research and development and innovation team have run a series of clinics around Northern Ireland, using each of our regional offices as an anchor, to promote the importance of R&D and innovation to our client base. The message about the importance of that and the range of supports available to encourage clients to undertake R&D now is much higher than it ever was. Specifically in the north-west, the largest R&D investment in the history of the organisation was announced in recent months: north of £110 million, undertaken by Seagate. That is a fabulous achievement both for the company and for the north-west. We are engaged all the time with our clients right across Northern Ireland, including the north-west. We sit down with them and say, "Work with us to undertake R&D". That is actually happening.

On the second point, your question is about that triple helix: the very important relationship between government, academia and clients around promoting the research and development and innovation agenda. We are doing that all the time. We are talking to the colleges, to Ulster University, to Queen's University and to the research centres embedded in those third-level institutions, and connecting our clients into the capability in the universities. We are supporting collaborative research and development projects between our clients and the universities all the time, and we are leveraging off the very good investments in city and growth deals. Our new chief development officer, Alison Currie, who is going to lead our regional agenda, will also have responsibility for the R&D and innovation team. Joining all those elements that you have alluded to together, that will now be more effective because, structurally, in the organisation, you will have a very senior member of the executive leadership team, and all the people who report to her, working on the agenda that you have alluded to.

Mr Delargy: That is really encouraging, and I know that there is a huge collaborative piece of work that Invest is critical to. I am looking forward to seeing that develop, and I thank the team for the fantastic work that has been done on that to date. Thanks very much for your presentation.

Mr Donoghue: Thank you. Members of our board — our chair and the head of our audit and risk assurance committee, Dawn McLaughlin — have been working and contributing as part of the Magee task force in the north-west. The work that we are doing on the regional agenda is not confined to the executive leadership within Invest NI; it also embraces members of our board. Thank you for your question.

Ms McLaughlin: Good morning, everyone, and thank you for being here today. Congratulations on the new posts and appointments, and I look forward to Alison's joining the team so that we have a real focus on regional balance. Nobody will be surprised that I want to focus my attention on some of the facts and figures that you have presented in your papers, Kieran. Your briefing indicates that you have:

There are also a number of companies there. Is that a sample of the new investors?

Mr Donoghue: Yes, Sinéad. That is just a sample, because not all the new investors have made formal public announcements. Unless the client gives us —.

Ms McLaughlin: Right, OK. Can I take you through those? I am wondering where they are located. Where is Napier AI located?

Mr Donoghue: Napier AI is located in Belfast.

Ms McLaughlin: Where is Ergo located?

Mr Donoghue: I believe that it is in the Belfast area.

Ms Beggs: Yes, it is.

Ms McLaughlin: Where is SpiderRock located?

Ms Beggs: It is in Belfast.

Ms McLaughlin: Where is Symphony located?

Ms Beggs: In Belfast.

Ms McLaughlin: Where is Spark located?

Ms Beggs: Spark is in Belfast.

Ms McLaughlin: Where is Ctrl Alt located?

Ms Beggs: Was that Ctrl Alt or ControlSoft?

Mr Donoghue: Sinéad, if the point of the question is to say that the bulk —.

Ms McLaughlin: I just want to go through them, Kieran. 9fin is also in Belfast, as is Paget-Brown. Every single one of those examples of new investors is in Belfast. What is the target? I will try to get on to the supported businesses as well, because you have indicated that 59% of them are in the regions and subregions. I would like a breakdown of the current location of all 19 new investors, because every one of them that is listed in your papers is located in Belfast. There has been millions and millions of pounds of investment in the ones that we can see here, and roughly about 250 jobs in the greater Belfast area. What is the target for new investors outside of Belfast? Can you give me a breakdown of that target?

Ms Beggs: Sinéad, we will obviously follow up on the information requests that you have made. A number of those 19 investors who have not formally announced are either outside the Belfast area or are operating on a remote basis across Northern Ireland. I just want to clarify that.

Ms McLaughlin: It is all about data for me. Can I get a full profile of the regional breakdown of new inward investors? I want to know the company name, the council area, the project location, the value of the investment, the Invest NI support and the total investment leveraged. Only when we have that data will we be able to truly understand whether regional balance is happening when it comes to investment coming into Northern Ireland.

Mr Donoghue: We do not have that information to hand today, but we are more than happy to provide it to you.

Ms McLaughlin: OK. From the information in the papers, it is quite clear that all those announcements were for Belfast.

Under the heading "Promoting people and places" in your paper, you state that "59% of supported investments" are:

What is the precise definition of "supported investments"? Is that the number of projects, or is that percentage a value of investment? I just want to be clear about exactly what that figure means.

Mr Donoghue: The 59% refers to investments, not investment value.

Ms McLaughlin: Can I have a breakdown of the value of those investments outside the Belfast metropolitan area? The value, not the number, is probably the most important aspect. They could be small projects, so I need to know the value of them, again broken down in the same manner as I have requested for the inward investment. That is really important.

The diagram includes the heading "59% Outside BMA", under which you have listed four companies. You have also listed four under the heading "41% Inside BMA". Is that just a sample?

Mr Donoghue: That is just a sample to illustrate the point. On both sides of that graphic, you have examples of some of the investments that occurred within and without the Belfast metropolitan area. Those are just examples; they are not the complete list.

Ms McLaughlin: Can you give me the numbers behind the percentages?

Mr Donoghue: We absolutely can. Your point about distinguishing between the number of investments and the value of the investments is well made. On occasion, that point applies in relation to the north-west.

By value, the largest and most valuable R&D investment that we have won in the past 12 months went into the north-west, not into the Belfast metropolitan area.

Ms McLaughlin: Yes. That investment in the north-west was made by the company Seagate, and I really value it. Seagate has been in Derry for 33 years and is an integral part of the economic outputs of the region. Its £100 million investment in R&D at that site maintains the site and gives it a future, so it is of critical value, and we welcome it entirely. We welcome the investment that Invest NI has made on top of that. However, that is just one business, and Derry now needs new investors — businesses of a similar advanced-innovation type — to come into the north-west —

Mr Donoghue: You will appreciate —.

Ms McLaughlin: — and also —.

Mr Donoghue: You will appreciate that it was the partnership between Invest NI and Seagate that led to that investment, with both teams working together.

Ms McLaughlin: One hundred percent. I know exactly what is going on. I am close to the ground there, regarding Seagate, and I value the work that you have done to support it in the region. Seagate is critical to the north-west, and we value it completely; you are to be congratulated on that work, and, absolutely, that is to be supported. The Alchemy acquisition is also good news, and I have visited the offices of Ernst and Young, or EY, which are very nice.

Regional balance is critical, obviously, and we need to see the actual outputs of that, so I need more data: your papers do not tell me what I really need to know.

What are the main policies outside the purview of the Department for the Economy that impact on the ability to attract investment to Northern Ireland and, specifically, its regions? Is it about health profile, economic inactivity or connectivity? In your experience, what issues do not make the regions attractive to investors?

Mr Donoghue: The challenges that every investment promotion agency (IPA), not just Invest NI, needs to manage in order to attract investors into the regions include the availability of sufficient infrastructure to accommodate a company's operations. If the company is a manufacturing investor, the issues will be connectivity to the grid; water and waste water capacity; the availability of land to build on or to expand a premises; and the availability of people, particularly those with specific skills.

Investors now do very sophisticated due diligence on all the locations that they might be encouraged to locate in by Invest NI and other IPAs, so making sure that we have all the information about the strengths of particular regions is really important. Over the past 12 months, we have reviewed, updated and developed our value proposition for each of the five operating regions that we now have in Invest NI that cover all of Northern Ireland. When Alison Currie joins the team in January, she will, in partnership with Anne Beggs and her team, oversee the articulation of those value propositions to even more foreign investors.

I should say that, after Belfast, the region that has received the bulk of site visits by international investors in recent years is the north-west.

Ms McLaughlin: How many of those visitors have you transformed into new investors in the north-west?

Mr Donoghue: We will get that data for you, but EY, for example —.

Ms McLaughlin: You do not know whether it was one, two or several? How many do you think that it was?

Mr Donoghue: I do not have that information to hand, but the main thing is that we have succeeded in convincing international investors, who have choices about where they go, to visit the north-west physically to look at the locations, meet other clients and leave with a favourable impression of the region. The discussions are ongoing. The fact that EY has decided to set up an office in the north-west reflects years of ongoing dialogue and interaction between Invest NI and EY's operation in Belfast. We intend to continue discussions with companies that already have a presence here whom we could encourage to establish a second site not just in the north-west but in all the other regions outside Belfast.

Ms McLaughlin: I want to labour the point slightly. Of the 19 new investors, are there any in the north-west?

Mr Donoghue: We will have to check that for you, Sinéad. I do not believe so, but there might be. Anne, do you have the information there?

Ms Beggs: There are, although that has not necessarily been publicly announced, Sinéad. Certainly, one investor has entered the area via acquisition, and —

Ms McLaughlin: That is probably the Alchemy acquisition.

Ms Beggs: No — forgive me — it is not the Alchemy one. That relates to this year's figures, but we are talking about the 2024-25 numbers, so it is a different one. A number of employers that have set up here offer remote working roles across Northern Ireland. They will employ folk —

Ms McLaughlin: Do you list acquisitions as new investors?

Ms Beggs: We may do so where a growth plan is attached to the acquisition and where we engage with the company, but, typically, we do not. We are talking about new foreign direct investors.

Ms McLaughlin: never was.

Ms Beggs: No.

Ms McLaughlin: Something of great concern is that —

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Just one more question.

Ms McLaughlin: Sorry, Chair — two seconds — I will go back to the data. Do you have a figure or target for new investors outside the BMA, or are you just targeting supported investments and looking at the number of projects rather than their value? What is the target in your strategy?

Mr Donoghue: The headline target is for 65% of all investments to be outside the BMA at the end of the strategy period. We have set a target that we ramp up each year. In year 1 of the strategy, it was 60%. This year, it will be 62%, and we will work up to the 65% target. We will provide a breakdown of those numbers to you offline.

Ms McLaughlin: Does that mean all investments, including new investors?

Mr Donoghue: Yes. It is combined. The target is 65% of all investments, whether they come from domestic companies that already operate in Northern Ireland or are new inward investments. The target for inward investments over the life of the strategy is 60. We set a target in year 1 of 15, and we delivered 19. The target this year is 20. We are trying to put more resources into the inward investment side of our business for the very reason that those investments are more mobile. We have more discretion to bring them to different parts of Northern Ireland, because they are not already here. We now design itineraries to say, "Come and take a look at these regions, because they have capabilities, infrastructure and skill sets that align with your business plan". As we increase the target and get more pull-through when it comes to site visits, more investors will go to various parts of Northern Ireland, including the north-west. We are in the ramp-up phase. We want more foreign investment, not less.

Ms McLaughlin: So does the city of Derry. OK. Thank you very much. Good job and well done on the journey of organisational transformation; clearly, a lot more has to be done on regional balance.

Mr Donoghue: I have been to the city of Derry/Londonderry quite a lot in the past 20 months, so I can confirm that.

Ms McLaughlin: You are always welcome. Thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I am sure that Sinéad will have you down many more times before the end of this. Sinéad, we will capture your requests for data at the end of the session and make sure that we follow up on those.

Mr Buckley: Thank you very much, Kieran and team. I have always been a strong supporter of Invest NI. It is a genuine Northern Ireland success story. Whilst nobody gets everything right, there is no doubt that Invest NI has been a power for good in the Northern Ireland economy over many years, and I re-emphasise my thanks to your colleagues, previous and present, for their continued work to promote Northern Ireland as a place in which to do business.

Having said that, I would be misleading you if I were not to say that I had concerns about how the current Sinn Féin Economy Minister and her predecessor have tried to position bodies such as Invest NI. Adopting hard-left ideological positions has inevitable consequences for business. It jars with economic growth, business confidence, jobs and investment. All that I can ask of Invest NI is that it deal with the Committee truthfully, so that the Committee can, hopefully, hold those with political and, indeed, administrative responsibility accountable. When former Minister Murphy appeared before our Committee on 11 December 2024, I asked:

He replied:

Therefore, the four posts were no longer in existence. People were offered the opportunity to apply for the new posts that were created, and it seems as though a number of people took the opportunity to leave the organisation. I asked:

I refer you to the third paragraph from the bottom of page 23 of your annual report, where it states:

yet, on page 76, it describes one redundancy as being "compulsory", at a cost of between £50,000 and £100,000, and states that the "Number of other departures agreed" was three, at a cost of between £200,000 and £250,000. That appears to directly contradict the Minister's statement in front of the Committee on 11 December 2024. Can you explain why that contradiction exists?

Mr Donoghue: I cannot explain the difference between that and what the Minister said to the Committee. I have not seen his evidence to the Committee. I would need to look at the detail of that, Jonathan, before I could comment further.

I can give you more colour on the restructuring. When I joined as chief executive officer, obviously, I read the Lyons report in its entirety and discussed it with the board and senior leadership team and with the Department for the Economy. Once I was familiar with the business and was beginning the process of developing a new strategy for Invest NI, as CEO, I decided that I needed to fundamentally restructure the business in order to make it fit for purpose for the foreseeable future. I restructured the senior leadership team, took the decision to reduce the number of grade 3s from four to three and decided that I needed to create brand-new positions to drive the strategy of the organisation so that we could deliver even more for the people of Northern Ireland. The roles of chief commercial officer, chief operating officer and chief development officer did not exist, so those brand-new positions were created.

As a consequence, the positions that were held at that time by the incumbents — the members of the executive leadership team — no longer existed. In a spirit of fairness, I said to those people, "Here is the job spec of the new roles. I encourage you to look at them. If you are interested in those roles, please apply for them". Understandably, however, when you have served an organisation loyally for 25 years and, suddenly, a new CEO is responsible for the organisation and the organisation is developing a new strategy, you will reflect on whether you want to remain part of the organisation and work with that CEO to deliver on the new strategy or to leave the organisation and pursue new opportunities. In this case, four people decided that they wanted to do exactly that. We then followed our own guidelines and policies and Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) procedures on their exiting the organisation. They received only what they were entitled to under NICS policies and regulations.

Mr Buckley: Do you accept that £0·8 million is a huge amount to spend to exit a number of people from an organisation? I think that anybody would accept that. When I asked at the previous Committee meeting whether there was something that we did not understand, the Committee was starting to become aware of a huge payout. Given the figures, the only thing that we can conclude is that those directors were, in some way, pushed out with offers of significant financial incentives. Is that the case?

Mr Donoghue: No. They were not pushed out. I was happy for the directors in question to apply for the new roles, given their seniority and experience. I sat down and had very frank discussions with them. They were treated with courtesy and respect.

I encouraged them to look at the job spec and then come back to me and indicate their wishes, which they did. They decided to pursue other opportunities. Some of them have joined the boards of important organisations in Northern Ireland; one has become the CEO of another organisation in Northern Ireland. It was their personal decision, which I had to respect, to leave the organisation. It is important to say that I would describe what they got not as pay-offs or payouts but as their statutory entitlements on leaving the organisation. Invest Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland's principal economic development agency: the future of that organisation is worth £800,000 of investment.

Mr Buckley: Who approved and authorised the payments? Was it you?

Mr Donoghue: Myself and the board, in consultation with the Department.

Mr Buckley: I want to talk about the regional property portfolio. You have talked about the infrastructural constraints that affect some of the businesses in that portfolio. You previously stressed that, "If we have the sites, they will come" — that is exactly what was said at a previous Committee meeting — yet your annual report warns that reduced budgets are putting targets at risk, specifically noting that the lack of funding for the land and property strategy will hinder both site provision and regional balance. Will you have to reset or downgrade your targets due to budget constraints?

Mr Donoghue: We have had to make provision in our targets and statements for the investment that may not happen as a consequence of the constraints, some of which relate to property. We have indicated that we might win 150 fewer investments and several hundred fewer jobs as a consequence of some of the constraints. We have set aside a budget for our land and property strategy: between resource and capital funding, it is circa £3 million. We recognise the realities of budgetary constraints in Northern Ireland and the fact that the Department has to look after a range of bodies, not just Invest NI. Therefore, we have creatively used city and growth deal money to develop a site solution in Mid Ulster at Desertcreat, and we are working to develop a land solution at Mandeville in Craigavon. We are trying to be creative while continuing to make the case for incremental funding for our regional property portfolio.

Mr Buckley: You are not looking at downgrading your targets due to the financial constraints?

Mr Donoghue: No. We remain committed to our targets. The organisation works every day to deliver its targets, but, for transparency, we needed to draw to the attention of the Committee and the Department what might happen as a consequence of some of the budgetary constraints.

Mr Buckley: In my constituency, a manufacturer waited for four years to complete a major factory on industrial land due to a lack of adequate waste water capacity. How many other projects in Northern Ireland are you aware of that are being delayed due to gaps in critical infrastructure? What are we doing to address that?

Mr Donoghue: I do not have a specific number for the precise number of projects that are moving slowly or not moving at all as a consequence of constraints in the water and waste water infrastructure system. What I can say is that clients say to us, "We need more water and waste water capacity. If you can help to provide that in partnership with NI Water, we will reinvest". A number of projects are impacted on by that lack of capacity, but we have sat down at a senior level with NI Water, which has been helpful and constructive, and it has briefed us on where there are constraints and where there might be surplus capacity in the network. We have overlaid that information on our land and property holdings so that we know where we have spare capacity and can direct investments to those sites.

Mr Buckley: The Chair went over in detail the policy that the Department has adopted on Israel, and you clarified whether you received a request or an instruction on that; you indicated that it was a request rather than an instruction. What are the practical implications of that position for Northern Ireland's businesses, particularly exporters and service providers with existing markets in Israel? Is there any consequence?

Mr Donoghue: There is no immediate consequence, because the policy to give effect to the Minister's statement in the House is a work in progress.

Mr Buckley: Are you talking about the ethical procurement framework?

Mr Donoghue: Yes.

Mr Buckley: How far does that go? Many countries — I can name Morocco, UAE, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Germany and others — are actively partnering with Israel on defence, aerospace, cybersecurity and advanced technology. Will the ethical procurement framework take into account how we interact with those countries on investment? The UK Government have committed to increase, including in the devolved regions, spending on defence, which is an industry that Invest NI itself has touted as a major success in the Northern Ireland economy and that has produced £2 billion in turnover and 10,000 jobs. What is Invest NI going to do to actively pursue that growing marketplace that has the potential to offer well-paid jobs in Northern Ireland and that should not be sacrificed on the altar of the far-left ideological pursuits of the Minister?

I will start with you, Kieran: what are you doing to actively promote that specific sector?

Mr Donoghue: As I said, Jonathan, there is a specific reference in the review of investments to the importance of the aerospace, defence and security sector. We have a pre-existing relationship with the clients that are active in that sector, and we are in active dialogue with them about reinvesting. We will continue to do that. We will look at trends and developments in the broad aerospace, defence and security sector globally, with a view to identifying opportunities for Northern Ireland. We will have appropriate conversations with those companies and with existing clients.

Mr Buckley: Mark, will the ethical procurement framework include those countries when it comes to the supply chain?

Mr Lee: It is too early to say, because we are still undertaking the work on that. As part of that work, we will look to understand the impacts of any policies and to ensure that the Minister is sighted on the policy choices and their impacts.

Mr Buckley: Time is running on, so my final question is about dual market access. It would be wrong of me not to bring that up, because the interaction earlier was really telling. Invest NI continues to promote dual market access as an economic advantage, yet businesses — in this Committee and in meetings in person — repeatedly talk about and report on the increasing unrecoverable costs of customs procedures, duties, parcel charges since May and, now, import control system 2 requirements. As Northern Ireland's leading trade body, do you accept that dual market access does not constitute equal market access? Do you accept that principle?

Ms Beggs: I will come back on that one. We talked earlier about the foreign direct investment dimension and the dual market access element of that. The discussion was about our not being able to exclusively attribute our investments or expansions to the advantage of dual market access specifically. I did not get the opportunity to say — it was not the nature of the question — what impact dual market access has had on our exporting businesses. There has been a marked increase in exports from Northern Ireland to the EU and GB. In fact, in the past three years, we have been the only part of the UK to increase our goods exports to the EU.

That said, I take your point that levering that market access advantage does not diminish the challenges that businesses here are facing, particularly in GB to NI movements. That is why the £16 million that was allocated in the Chancellor's statement last week to advance GB to NI and NI to GB trade flows was very welcome, as were Lord Murphy's recommendations on a one-stop shop for information and on advancing the work of Intertrade UK. Those were all welcome developments.

Mr Buckley: That is a good answer, Anne, but it is not the answer to the question that I asked. Do you accept that dual market access, as marketed, does not and will never equate to equal market access? If we compare GB importers to Northern Ireland with EU importers to Northern Ireland, we see that there are significant customs requirements for GB businesses entering Northern Ireland. There is therefore friction, there are costs, and it is therefore not an equal playing field. Do you accept that?

Ms Beggs: Yes, there is a difference between GB to NI movements and EU to NI movements, if that is the question of equality.

Mr Buckley: Look at the figures. Again, we are trying to justify dual market access as a net benefit, when the market and business feedback suggests that there are escalating costs, not gains.

Northern Ireland imports goods worth £16 billion from GB, all of it requiring custom processes, and £7 billion from the EU, while exports to continental Europe remain below 2018 levels compared with £17·9 billion to GB. Therefore, the data does not suggest that dual market access is having the impact that some would like to suggest. Is that not factual?

Ms Beggs: From an exporter point of view, their ability to access the EU 27 countries and GB on a more competitive basis than other suppliers into those markets is there. I guess what you are saying is about the supply chain movements into Northern Ireland —

Mr Buckley: So —

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Sorry, but you said "last question" five questions ago.

Mr Buckley: I did.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I do not want to be accused of showing favouritism towards anyone, so I will move on to Gary.

Mr Middleton: Thanks to all the team for coming in. I want to put on record my thanks to Invest NI over the years, particularly the north-west team and Des Gartland. He has been working for many years in a very hostile political environment, in my opinion, particularly with elected representatives on the council. The team needs to be commended for working through that and trying to bring investment to the north-west.

Kieran, you will recall that a BBC headline stated that one of the north-west's best-known business figures resigned from the board, alleging discrimination by Invest NI against the north-west. That is not something that I witness. I see Invest NI continuing to try to develop and bring jobs in the face of a difficult political environment. What is your assessment of that? Obviously, you do not agree with the assessment that Invest is actively discriminating against the north-west.

Mr Donoghue: No, I do not. What I see in the organisation is a genuine attempt to deliver more business right across Northern Ireland to every region, including the north-west. I do not agree with the characterisation that we are discriminating against the north-west at all.

My earlier response to Pádraig's question about our intention to establish a new office in the north-west and scale up our team there and put more resources on the ground, in combination with the recent announcements that I referred to by Seagate, NTT, Alchemy, EY and others is evidence to the contrary that, if anything, we are discriminating in favour of the north-west not against it.

Mr Middleton: I welcome that, and I knew that your response would be to push back. It is very important that, as political representatives, we talk this place up. I am proud of Londonderry, and I am proud of the north-west, and I see the positive work. If you were to listen to some elected representatives, you would think that we were literally a basket case and not worth investing in. That is not what I recognise.

The £2·2 billion aerospace defence sector is so important, and we need to ensure that we maximise that investment and see it go further. However, I sense a reluctance, particularly among some people in the north-west, to almost want to be seen to be pushing that particular sector. Do you sense any reluctance, for any particular reason, in the north-west to push that sector?

Mr Donoghue: No. Personally, I have not experienced any reluctance or pushback from the north-west in relation to that sector, but I accept that there will be a diversity of views across society around sectors such as aerospace, defence and security. We must respect those diverse views, but there is an economic opportunity for Northern Ireland embedded in that sector that we, as Northern Ireland's economic development agency, are duty-bound to pursue.

Mr Middleton: Absolutely. We respect people's views, but that cannot allow the denial of other people to have the opportunity to apply for those jobs. Therefore, I urge you to continue doing the work that you are doing in pushing that very important sector.

In the interests of time, I will jump across very briefly to the report. With regard to developing and achieving sustainability, I am looking at some of the targets versus the actual achievements. On the development of sustainability plans with companies, the target was 40, but 24 were achieved. The value of investment is significantly lower than the target and the actual investment achieved. What is the reason for that? Sustainability is so important for our businesses going forward. Why are we falling so short on those targets?

Mr Donoghue: That is a fair question. That is one of the areas in our strategy in which we have been underperforming. There are a number of reasons to explain that. The vast majority of our clients are small and medium-sized enterprises. When we sit down with them and have a conversation about developing a sustainability plan, they have to look at that in the context of the range of priorities, demands and pressures on their time, their staff and their resources. It depends on when we have that conversation with them. Many view it as discretionary spend and as a tier 2 priority. They say to us, "Look, we would like to work with you to develop a sustainability plan, because we see the obvious benefits of it to our business, wider society and the environment, but it is not something that we can devote time and resources to at this time". That is the reason for the undershoot. You should not interpret it as our standing back from that priority. We will continue to have those conversations with clients, and we are confident that, over time, more of them will develop sustainability plans. At the moment, however, it is an area of weakness.

Mr Middleton: Right. Effectively, businesses have so much else to get on with that, ultimately, sustainability plans and that type of thing are secondary.

Mr Donoghue: They say to me, "Kieran, we have to make choices. Do you want us to invest in plant and equipment? Do you want us to automate our processes and boost our productivity or develop a sustainability plan? We cannot do both at the same time". They will obviously opt for a project that will have an immediate, positive impact on their business and treat the sustainability agenda as a tier 2 priority. We will, however, return to that conversation with them. It is a timing issue, not a fundamental objection.

Mr Middleton: OK. Thank you.

Mr Honeyford: Thank you for coming in. We started off so positively, and your presentation was so positive. I want to look at some of the things that you have raised. Honestly, it is disappointing to hear some of the language used in questions to you that talk us down and do not look at the opportunities that we have and the difference that dual market access gives us compared with the rest of the UK and the South.

Following on from Jonny, I could name multiple companies in Lagan Valley that have expanded because of dual market access. It is not the only reason, but it is a key and critical part of that. Is that happening across Northern Ireland as a whole? Are exports growing due to the fact that we have access to two markets?

Ms Beggs: Yes. There are two things. There are companies that are consciously taking advantage of dual market access and are leveraging it very strongly, and they are more likely to want to go on record as saying that they support dual market access. Then, there are those that, when they analyse their business and see that they are perhaps increasing their market share in the EU versus their GB competitors, they do not automatically make the connection, but that is the product of dual market access, because it is so much more difficult for their competitors in GB to target those markets.

We still have a lot more work to do on awareness raising among our businesses here, but it is certainly a factor that is being cited by many. It is about when it becomes a decision-making factor for investors or a benefit for exporters. Given that it is the subject of debate, as it has been here this morning, there are few companies that want to put their head above the parapet and explicitly say that they are benefiting from it.

Mr Donoghue: Just to build on that observation, if I may, it is important not to see our promotional work exclusively through the lens of dual market access. We have a large portfolio of clients that want to export to as many markets as possible and capture commercial opportunities in as many markets as possible. We do not confine our promotional work to just the EU, GB and the rest of the UK. We look for market opportunities for our clients on a global basis, leveraging our global office network to do that.

Mr Honeyford: We are creating jobs, more skills opportunities and exports through dual market access. However, as you said, we have companies that are scared to put their head above the parapet, because this has been politicised, and rather than delivering jobs and everything else, they are staying below the radar and just getting on with it?

Ms Beggs: Yes.

Mr Honeyford: Thank you. May I look at R&D? Your figures on R&D are pretty impressive. You said that you had a target of £160 million but delivered £245 million. That is about 50% up on the target. Has a particular business caused that? What is the reason for the drive behind it?

Mr Donoghue: The drive behind that was the fact that, as I said, our research and development and innovation team went out to our regional office network and held a series of clinics to raise awareness across our portfolio of our service offering and the range of programmes and supports available to businesses to embrace R&D and innovation. That was the principal drive behind the work in progress, but Seagate's investment had an outsized impact on the value of the R&D investments that we delivered in the first year of our strategy.

Mr Honeyford: For me, R&D is about exporting into the future. New products are developed and intellectual property is owned here, which brings wealth and prosperity to people. Will that continue to grow at the rate that we have seen?

Mr Donoghue: That is the intention. We want more companies doing and investing more in R&D. We had a great year because of the significance of the Seagate investment, so we want to build on that. Right now, when we look in the pipeline, we see some further high-value R&D investments from a broader range of clients.

Ms Beggs: At the other end of the spectrum, we have an internal target for first-time investors in R&D to continue to feed that pipeline.

Mr Honeyford: What support is there to enable that to continue to grow?

Ms Beggs: There is a range of solutions, David, from innovation vouchers and grants for R&D through to access to national and even EU funding sources.

Mr Honeyford: Talking of markets, a memorandum of understanding (MOU) was signed recently between the Minister and the South. What benefit do you see for Invest NI in that? Trade to the South is export but also a stepping stone into the other markets around the world that you mentioned. What are the key things that Invest can do now to start to push that?

Mr Donoghue: We have set up what we call a new hub office in Dublin. The team in Dublin is looking for export opportunities in ROI for our clients here, and there have been increased expressions of interest by companies headquartered in ROI about establishing a presence in Northern Ireland. We now have the infrastructure and resources on the ground in the Republic to build on that memorandum of understanding to attract more investment into Northern Ireland from the Republic.

Mr Honeyford: Is there a connection with Enterprise Ireland and the Industrial Development Agency (IDA)? Have relationships been built? Does the MOU help in any way to build them?

Mr Donoghue: The relationships are very positive. For example, we partner with Enterprise Ireland on the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Year programme. I am pleased to say that three of our clients — companies from Northern Ireland — made it into the final this year. That is great, because it raises the profile of the quality of the companies and of the talent that we have here. We also partner with Enterprise Ireland on a leadership for growth programme that it runs every year. We send the leadership teams from some of our clients here to participate in that programme, where they gain exposure to their peers in the Republic, share experiences and establish interpersonal relationships that can often be the basis of commercial opportunities for both sides. That is what we are doing. We have a good, positive relationship with IDA Ireland as well.

Mr Honeyford: Very good.

I have one last question, which I cannot pass by, but with no land in Lagan Valley, when Jonny talked about connection problems for new business sites, are we being strategic with the plug-and-play parks that you talked about, I think, when you were here previously? You mentioned one in Craigavon. Are we being strategic about where they are going?

Mr Donoghue: Yes, we are. Once we have the budget, we have to buy land in an area where connections to the utilities can be delivered in a reasonable time frame. The last thing that we want to do is buy land where the infrastructure will not arrive for five years or even longer, because we then have a stranded asset that we cannot really utilise to attract investment or accommodate the needs of existing clients. We are very careful about which property solutions we prioritise.

Mr Honeyford: Thank you so much for everything that you do for us all.

Mr Donoghue: Thank you for your questions.

Ms Nicholl: I need to start by saying that I have been very outspoken on Palestine. That is not because I harbour any far-left ideology but because it is a humanitarian issue to me, and I think that we should be cognisant of how we are potentially complicit in genocide. To me, it is very clear that we need an ethical procurement framework. Actually, I think that we need an international relations strategy. That would mean that we could take some of the party politicking out of this and focus on growing the economy, supporting businesses and creating opportunities for the next generation, which is what we all want on this Committee.

What engagement, if any, have you had on the development of an international relations strategy with the Executive Office, which, I understand, is developing that at the moment?

Mr Donoghue: I have not had any.

Mr Lee: Personally, none. I have engaged with that team, and we talked about a number of broad things that are going on. There may be members of my team who have been involved at a more detailed level, but I personally have not been involved.

Mr Donoghue: Have you, Anne?

Ms Beggs: Yes, our trade and investment group has had early stage engagement with the international relations team in the Executive Office to align our priority sectors and markets and make sure that those align with the direction of the international relations plan.

Ms Nicholl: It strikes me that that is massively important, especially when you are talking about the network of global offices and how we reach those global markets. Having that strategy is so important for so many reasons. I agree with what David said about R&D and how impressive it is. We have covered that, so I would like to ask a bit more about skills. The skills action plan was published in recent months, and I am curious, from your engagement with businesses, what you see as the key skills gaps and barriers that businesses are facing at the moment.

Ms Beggs: Across the piece, it is probably more at the experienced-hire end of the market, where conversion programmes and upskilling programmes are quite important. Across industries, without going into the weeds of any particular one, it would be at that experienced level to lead and see new teams of school-leavers, graduates etc.

Ms Nicholl: OK. Thank you. I have just set up the all-party group on artificial intelligence, and I really believe that we can be a world leader in that space, much like we are on cybersecurity. Can you speak about what you are seeing in the AI landscape, including what changes are being made and how an AI strategy could help?

Mr Donoghue: First, our view is that artificial intelligence is being adopted at pace by many clients in many sectors. That is positive. It will lead to more job creation and more job displacement. It will create jobs but also destroy jobs. The net effect will depend on the specifics of the company and the sector.

We see potential job growth in cybersecurity as a consequence of artificial intelligence, because artificial intelligence is increasing the volume, frequency and pace at which cyberthreats are being created. Those threats are being created by actual artificial intelligence itself, and, therefore, cybersecurity providers and the cybersecurity industry need to adopt AI to combat those AI-originating threats. In the last three to five years, brand-new roles have been created in the cybersecurity industry to combat AI-originating threats. You have AI threat hunters, and AI cyber-risk and cybercompliance roles are now being created. Globally, there is a shortage, with three million to four million unfilled job vacancies in the cybersecurity industry.

Northern Ireland continues to have a fabulous reputation in that space, so we are confident that we can lean into this opportunity and see more sophisticated jobs being created in Northern Ireland as a consequence of AI. Some current roles will be commoditised, like log triage and tier 1 security operations centre analysts. In the AI industry, those roles will disappear and will be replaced by those higher-value roles. David Crozier and our colleagues in the Artificial Intelligence Collaboration Centre are doing fabulous work. David and his team attended our recent staff conference to highlight what they are doing, and we are building connections between his work and the work of our clients so that we have a more joined-up ecosystem of artificial intelligence and cybersecurity operations in Northern Ireland. We are optimistic about future job growth.

Ms Nicholl: Thank you so much. That is an important point, and it is why I am so interested in this. It is not that I am not aware of the risks. There are massive risks, and we need to be fully aware of both the potential and the risks and make sure that we are fully informed. I agree that David and the team are doing excellent work. That is all from me, Chair; thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Kate is our in-house expert in AI. The work that she is doing with the all-party group is important. It would be useful if anyone from the organisation could feed into or tap from that knowledge.

Ms D Armstrong: Good morning and welcome to the Committee meeting and thank you for the presentation. We are seeing a lot of good stuff and improvements. I commend Invest NI. A lot of what I was going to raise has been covered. As a Committee, we are looking at other legislation, particularly the 'good jobs' Bill. Have you fed into the consultation or conducted an impact assessment on the 'good jobs' Bill? In GB, we are seeing that the Labour Party has changed what it said in its manifesto about day-one dismissal rights. The Government are now going to roll them back to six months. Have you an opinion? Have you fed into the consultation?

Mr Donoghue: I am not aware if we have.

Ms Beggs: Mark might have some perspective on that.

Mr Lee: I am not aware of Invest feeding in directly, but there are mechanisms and engagement forums with business, more generally, that the team is taking forward. It is utilising the policy development around 'good jobs' to ensure that it is engaging with and hearing from businesses.

Ms D Armstrong: The Committee expressed a concern that the consultation was conducted during a time when there was low awareness. We did not feel that a sufficient number of stakeholders had engaged. We are concerned that such a consultation should have had wider reach.

Mr Donoghue: I am not aware that we have done an impact assessment, but I will check those points and come back to you.

Ms D Armstrong: Is it something that you would look at, Kieran?

Mr Donoghue: Absolutely. I think that it really important to look at it.

Ms D Armstrong: Yes. Thank you. Everything that I wanted to say has been covered, for the large part. More locally, I am looking at the peripherality of the region that I represent, Fermanagh and South Tyrone. Kieran, we have met before and had good conversations. There is nothing happening with FDI. How do we grow and support manufacturing in the region, particularly in Fermanagh? There is potential for growth. Can you tell us anything about your intentions for support going forward?

Mr Donoghue: As you know, we have a great team in that area, led by my colleague Ethna McNamee. We plan to expand Ethna's team and the capabilities of that team so that they can drive the regional development agenda in Fermanagh. When our new chief development officer, Alison Currie, comes in, she will amplify all that work.

As I said, we are looking at our value propositions to attract industry into all of the regions in Northern Ireland, including your constituency, and trying to identify which companies would be best aligned with the strengths of that region. We are also going to update our lists of companies that we are going to be targeting internationally to strengthen our FDI pipeline, and we will be matching those companies with particular regional strengths in Northern Ireland. Those are some of the steps that we are taking to raise the profile of the region. We are also bringing in more site visits so that investors can go to Fermanagh — in your constituency — to see what it has to offer. That is something else that we are trying to do.

Ms D Armstrong: You can understand some of the major drawbacks for investors will be the location, peripherality, connectivity, digital connectivity and, as we have mentioned, waste water and the challenges there. It is about keeping the focus on the need to speak to other agencies and Departments about strengthening the availability of that infrastructure, because there will not be growth if that is not readily available.

Mr Donoghue: As you know, the CEO of BT was in town recently, and Invest NI and BT jointly announced a new innovation centre. In the discussions that we had with Alison and her senior team, it became very clear that BT has invested a lot in broadband infrastructure and broadband services in Northern Ireland. We have one of the strongest offerings in connectivity, and we always draw international investors' attention to that. That has served us very well. As a consequence of the investments that have been made by BT, we do not want for connectivity.

Ms D Armstrong: You talked about relocating your regional office in Londonderry. Have you considered relocating from Omagh to Enniskillen? From looking at the map and considering where the regional offices are located, is there any benefit in moving more centrally in Fermanagh to really address border businesses?

Mr Donoghue: You are the first person who has raised the possibility of relocating from Omagh to Enniskillen. No one has raised that with me to date, including members of the team. If that would serve our agenda in the region, we are open to considering it.

Ms D Armstrong: I think that I spoke to you about it before, looking at the Workhouse and the work that is being done in Enniskillen, Kieran.

Mr Donoghue: As you know, we have regularly used the Workhouse for events, and it is a very impressive piece of infrastructure.

Ms D Armstrong: I have another question, looking more at global volatility and other external factors. There is a company that has experience of international competitors that do not produce or manufacture to the same standards as it, and that global volatility is quite a threat. I think that it is coming through that experience now. It has had to lay off, but it will be recruiting. What can you do when you are working to different standards for those manufacturers?

Mr Donoghue: We can help companies to invest in meeting global standards. In fact, there is a project that we are currently considering from one client to invest in its systems to allow it to meet regulatory product standards on a global basis. If the company in question wants to —.

Ms D Armstrong: I am not suggesting that that company is not. It is, but maybe the other international competitors, in that sense, are not.

Mr Donoghue: Oh, you mean exploiting the fact that the competitors do not meet global standards. There are limits to what we can do in such a situation. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the company that sees that delta between its compliance with global standards and a weakness on the part of its competitors to draw the customers or would-be customers to the higher standards that it is maintaining compared with its competition. That is an operational matter for the clients.

Ms Beggs: Yes, it is, but it also involves targeting work from our overseas offices. A couple of weeks ago, we had an inward mission of buyers from Southeast Asia for materials-handling solutions from Northern Ireland, and it was very clear that they were here to access the quality and the standard of our product versus a cheaper product that they could have perhaps got closer to home in China. A lot of that has to do with the quality USP and how our overseas teams do the successful matching of the objectives and needs of buyers in overseas markets to a higher quality product.

Ms D Armstrong: Finally, one long-term issue on the horizon is inheritance tax and the impact on the agri-food sector. Are you lobbying on behalf of agri-food business to support the farming industry and the agriculture sector in this country?

Mr Donoghue: I am not aware that we are actively involved in that, Diana.

Ms D Armstrong: Do you think that there is a place for Invest NI input to add its voice to that?

Mr Donoghue: I would need to look at the details before I could offer you a considered view on that.

Ms D Armstrong: Thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Jemma, do you have any questions?

Miss Dolan: No, thank you, Chair.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Thank you very much indeed, Jemma.

I have some quick final questions. Mark, one of the Minister's key pillars of her economic vision is regional balance, and one of the best ways that Invest can achieve that is through its regional property fund. What is the current budget for the regional property fund?

Mr Lee: I do not have the information to hand for the current year. I do not know whether Invest colleagues do.

Ms Kathryn Hill (Invest NI): It is in the region of £3 million. We have put in bids to the future-year exercise, and we are awaiting the outcome of that.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): You are saying that it is £3 million in the current year.

Ms Hill: Yes, that is resource and capital.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): What is it for next year?

Ms Hill: We have put in a bid for £3 million of capital, and that ramps up over the next number of years.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Perfect.

Anne, David raised a point, and I do not want to misquote you. You said that businesses were refusing to put their head above the parapet because the issue of dual market access had been politicised. Is that what you said?

Ms Beggs: They are less inclined to put their head above the parapet.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Is that your personal view or the view of Invest Northern Ireland?

Ms Beggs: From an anecdotal perspective, when we go out to our client base seeking case studies and so on, there is a reluctance to come forward with case studies. That would bring a lot of the proposition to life, so that is why we are doing that. There would be a natural reluctance, yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Is there a reluctance on the other side of the equation in that those businesses that are currently being impacted on by the implications of the Irish Sea border would also not want to put their head above the parapet?

Ms Beggs: No, I would say that there is perhaps a stronger voice, because of the concerns that Jonathan and others have legitimately raised. I do not think that that is the case there.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): You do not?

Ms Beggs: No. I think actually —.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Did you read the report by the Federation of Small Businesses that was published on the impact of the Windsor framework?

Ms Beggs: Yes, but, as I said, from a representational point of view, on the challenges and concerns of the operation of the Windsor framework, there are a number of different lobbying organisations, voices etc. When we went to establish a stakeholder forum regarding dual market access, there was a genuine appetite to have a voice that would give effect to surfacing the benefits as well. They are two sides of the same coin.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Did you get people to come forward to sit on your stakeholder forum?

Ms Beggs: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Is that a part of Invest Northern Ireland as well?

Ms Beggs: It is a collaborative forum that we have established with the Department. It has on it Manufacturing NI, ADS Northern Ireland, industry representatives, trade bodies etc.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): That is good. Maybe others in the room have heard about it, but that is the first that I have heard of it. That is what is important: we need to find a solution that works for all businesses and all people in Northern Ireland. Often we get a scenario where the Windsor framework is perfect in some people's views and unworkable in the views of others. We need to get to a dedicated position where we recognise the benefits and failings of all. If we want to truly deliver dual market access, it means unfettered access to our largest market in GB and to the European Union. That would be dual market access that, I believe, everyone in the Committee could sign up to.

On behalf of the Committee, I thank you very much for your work. Committee members may have different political opinions, but we are all committed to advancing the cause of economic opportunities and development here in Northern Ireland for all the people whom we are honoured to represent. You have a vital role to play in that, so thank you very much for doing that.

Mr Donoghue: Thank you, Chair and members.