Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): I welcome Kerry Curran, the director of the Northern Ireland Bureau, China; Aodhán Connolly, the director of the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels; and Richard Cushnie, the director of the Northern Ireland Bureau, North America. They all join us online. Welcome back; it is good to see you. I invite you all to make some opening remarks.

Mr Aodhán Connolly (The Executive Office): I will start, if that is OK with you, Chair. I am delighted to be back with you. A lot has happened since we were last here.

Since there are some new members of the Committee, I will quickly run through a bit of what we do. The Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels supports all the Departments in their engagement with the EU. In fact, we have colleagues in the team who are posted from DAERA and the Department of Justice, working alongside TEO officials, which shows the importance that those Departments place on our work.

The engagement includes directly supporting businesses and

, and senior officials can meet their counterparts in Brussels on their policy priorities or hold events to showcase areas of innovation from Northern Ireland. We also work to build relationships with EU contacts, outside the formal structures. That is, perhaps, some of the most important work that we do, because it provides an opportunity to gather information that can support formal engagement, as well as keeping Ministers and Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) colleagues aware of any issues that have, or may have, an impact on Northern Ireland. That is particularly important to Windsor framework issues, as the early identification of issues provides more scope for management and mitigation.

We issued the most recent edition of the Brussels report a few days ago — I know that you were all avidly waiting for it. It covers the activities of the office between October and December 2025. Committee members have also received an overview of our work in the written brief that was submitted in advance of today. I will highlight a little of our work that has happened since our previous appearance. On the cultural and networking side, we have been promoting Northern Ireland. That is a key role of our office. Our Brussels platform, which we fund jointly with the Arts Council and which offers local artists and performers an opportunity to perform and promote their work in Brussels, happened in September. We also had a culture night event in September, at which we hosted Belfast comedian Jane McKeever and launched an exhibition of winners and finalists from the Bradley Art Prize for young artists. On the economic side, we are, as the Committee knows, co-located with Invest NI, and we work closely with it. We have also done a lot of work, over the term, with our universities and with other bodies that are interested in Horizon Europe funding opportunities.

That is just a flavour of the work that we do. I want to leave ample time for your questions, so I will pass to Richard.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Aodhán. Go ahead, Richard, please.

Ms Kerry Curran (The Executive Office): Apologies, Chair: we agreed behind the scenes that we would travel east first. Hello to you all from Beijing. It is very nice to be back with the Committee. It is a very busy time for us at the bureau, given that, as I am sure that you will be aware, the Prime Minister is visiting our offices, here in Beijing, at the moment.

I will give you a flavour of what we have been doing since we were previously with the Committee and of our purpose out here. The role of the bureau is to support the delivery of Northern Ireland's economic vision, enhance its reputation and build strategic partnerships. We work with our diaspora to amplify Northern Ireland's voice and impact. We work on building and developing our relationships with all levels of government here in China — centrally, which is mostly here from Beijing; provincially; and with municipal governments at city level — with the aim of identifying and furthering opportunities in the economic, education and tourism sectors. The bureau works closely with partners across government and other organisations, such as Invest NI, to maximise our impact and deliver good value for money.

The bureau's work has focused on a number of areas since my previous appearance at the Committee, specifically on improving cultural understanding with Chinese representatives, university and regional college partnership developments and sectoral export growth opportunities. One of the key events in the months since we were previously before the Committee took place in December, when the Minister for the Economy, Dr Caoimhe Archibald, visited China to undertake a comprehensive engagement programme across several cities — I think that it was four cities in total. Those engagements highlighted and promoted Northern Ireland's trade and our education and tourism opportunities. They included an event that was delivered in partnership with the Northern Ireland film industry to provide Northern Ireland film screening and creative industry sector opportunities. Specifically, it showcased Studio Ulster, Ulster University and Northern Ireland Screen.

As well as supporting and facilitating visits from Ministers — those do not happen as often as I would like — senior officials and business representatives, the bureau plays a key role in representing Northern Ireland's position in UK government structures. I represent Northern Ireland at China board of management meetings and at weekly UK ambassador and Deputy Head of Mission meetings. That engagement plays an important role in making sure that we connect to upcoming events, initiatives and opportunities, and that we can avail ourselves of those initiatives and opportunities in order to showcase Northern Ireland's offering in front of relevant organisations and individuals in China, such as at the Prime Minister's visit that is taking place at the moment.

The bureau also engages regularly with other partners across government, such as the Department for Business and Trade, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO), the British Council and UK Research and Innovation. As we look ahead to another busy year in 2026, we are planning round-table discussions and a diaspora event at the bureau offices, which will form part of a wider programme focused on the St Patrick's Day celebrations. We are also working to secure Northern Ireland universities' participation in the UK-China education summit, which we had hoped would be held alongside the Prime Minister's visit but which is likely to be held in late March or early April this year. We will support Queen's University and Ulster University through that process. Thank you for your time.

Mr Richard Cushnie (The Executive Office): It is great to be back at the Committee. Since our appearance at the Committee in May, we have continued to develop and improve how we deliver for Northern Ireland in our most important external market. We have strengthened our engagement with the Departments, local councils, universities and organisations such as Invest NI and Tourism Ireland. We have continued to open doors, creating opportunities and converting those opportunities to impact. While some outcomes can happen quickly, others take time and need a longer-term approach. The bureau builds trust and invests in relationships that deliver sustainable benefits over time.

We have expanded Northern Ireland's networks in the US and Canada, strengthening our bipartisan relationships with Republican and Democratic members of Congress, the Department of State, key stakeholders in Canada, universities, chambers of commerce, locations outside DC and, importantly, next-generation leaders who will shape future policy and partnerships in North America. We also help our North American stakeholders, who sometimes think of Northern Ireland only through the prism of the peace process, or who do not think of us at all, to consider the opportunities that Northern Ireland has to offer as a place to live, work, study and invest.

At the previous evidence session, the Committee was particularly interested in communications. Since June, we have increased our engagement by 60% on LinkedIn, by 30% on Instagram and by 10% on X. We are monitoring that growth to understand what is working well so that we can tailor content to expand awareness of the opportunities that Northern Ireland has to offer.

Looking ahead, I want to foreground three initiatives. We are working with the National Committee on American Foreign Policy (NCAFP) to bring its Northern Ireland emerging leaders program to Washington DC to explore the policy initiatives that those next-generation leaders will develop across topics that will be aligned to the Programme for Government. We are planning a Northern Ireland tech and innovation conference in DC to highlight Northern Ireland's strengths in AI, fintech and cybersecurity. Most significantly, we are deeply involved in preparing for St Patrick's Day, St Patrick's week and the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence to celebrate our shared history. That can be used as a platform for future opportunities. It is a unique opportunity to have two such grand events coming together to tell the story of Northern Ireland's range of contributions to the United States, from all sectors of society and across a long period of time.

The Committee will be aware, as we all are, that the corporate environment in the US is changing, but the bureau remains committed to ensuring that we work through that to maximise every opportunity for Northern Ireland.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Richard. Thank you all for your succinct opening remarks, which gives us more time for questions. My first question is for all three of you, and it is about recent media coverage of the hospitality spend across all the bureaux, although, admittedly, Washington may be the highest spender. What sort of cost-benefit analysis do you conduct when you organise such events? More importantly, have any conversations taken place with departmental officials in recent weeks about the budget, going forward? Will there be a new policy in place or guidance and restrictions on how money is spent on hospitality events?

Mr Connolly: The hospitality expenditure by our bureau over the past five years has been a strategic investment in access, influence and relationship building that directly supports and delivers on the objectives of the Programme for Government.

The spend that was reported covers three bureaux in three different international environments over five years. When it is annualised, it is modest and tightly targeted. It completely surprises me, having been in the private sector for so long, what colleagues here, and our colleagues in Brussels, do by begging, borrowing and stealing to ensure value for money. That value is based on the way in which it allows Northern Ireland to convene decision makers efficiently. You get a lot of the right people in the one room at the right time. That is how influence is built and used; that is how trusted networks are maintained. That is what we need, especially for long-term economic and political benefit.

All the spending follows strict public-sector controls, approvals and transparency requirements. Of course, we have ongoing conversations about budgets each and every year. However, where small jurisdictions such as ours differ is that we cannot keep up with the Joneses. We do not spend comparatively with other regions and other countries. What we do have is something that is not nice to have when entertaining; "just meals", as someone called it. It a tool of access, convening power and relationship maintenance in places where decisions are shaped. When used properly, it buys you time with the right people in the right format and at the right moment. I heard someone describe our work as "simply providing meals", which understates what we do. To describe it as "just hospitality" or "just meals" is akin to describing the Assembly's work as "just voting". In both cases, it overlooks the preparation, relationships and influence that make outcomes possible. Just as the Committees and Assembly Members make a difference through preparation and hard work, we do the same through the work that we do through hospitality.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Aodhán. Richard or Kerry, do you want to add to that to give me a wee bit of context on engagement with the Department on that matter?

Mr Cushnie: I agree with Aodhán. Each of the three environments is a bit different. Washington DC and North America is a uniquely competitive environment. There are higher costs and more frequent high-level engagement to ensure that level of access. I also want to stress, as Aodhán did, that all our spend is compliant with NICS rules and processes. It is approved and purposeful. We are fully transparent about what we do with it. It is designed to deliver access, engagement and profile for Northern Ireland. Every time we get a invitation to sponsor, host or engage, we assess it rigorously against how it delivers for Northern Ireland, what opportunity it provides for us and what access it gives. We maintain close contact with Belfast all the time to ensure that those processes are in place and working.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you. Kerry, have you anything to add?

Ms Curran: Yes, thank you, Chair. Aodhán and Richard have covered most of it with regard to our processes. To note your point, Chair, on the engagement with TEO specifically, each of us will engage with our home Department on our planning for the year ahead, the outcomes that we hope to achieve and the budget that we will require to do that. We also go through the appropriate budgetary processes to ensure that we are clear about delivery and value for money for all our spend, not just hospitality spend, which will be a proportion of our budgets.

From a China bureau perspective, the reason why our hospitality elements are so important is that China is a very relationship-led environment. Often, you will hear the term "people-to-people engagement" in the news. The hospitality aspect of engagement with Chinese officials, our partner universities and those who we hope will buy more goods from Northern Ireland to support our export growth is, culturally, a very important aspect of activity here. There is a strong expectation of professional reciprocity when we host events versus when we attend events. In China, hospitality demonstrates a seriousness, a respect and a long-term intent. Again, you will probably hear that coming through in the people-to-people discussions that the Prime Minister will have over the next couple of days.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you all for putting that on the record. I want to stay with you, Kerry, and ask you about your previous two appearances before the Committee. At one of them, you had just come into post. I want to ask about comms. I think that you assured us at your last evidence session that you were working on it and that it would be far more reflective of your work. Yet, the Executive Office's web page in relation to the Beijing office still has a 2017 press statement as its cover, with Robinson and McGuinness. What is happening? When I read your report, I thought, "Gosh, for a small team of three people, they are doing a lot of work." However, we are just not hearing about it. What are you going to do about comms?

Ms Curran: Thank you very much, Chair. That is not an unanticipated question. I had hoped that we would be in a much louder communications space than we are. I assure you that there is a very strong programme of communications for this year, not just with the China bureau, but with all the bureaux. Significant work is going on to refresh the bureau's pages on the Executive Office website, which, as you say, are very out of date. We are doing that in collaboration with our colleagues in Belfast. We have provided relevant material to update those to the Ministers. Formal publication of updates to the web pages, as I am sure you will appreciate, requires ministerial approval, and the updates are actively being considered at the moment. We are also cognisant of the understandable pressures on our Ministers in TEO over the past few months.

It is not just about websites; it is about our social media content. One of the big challenges, which I have mentioned previously and which I had not anticipated when I took up the role, and difficulties with the bureaucracy is having access to our social media in the UK, specifically our LinkedIn account. We have made some great progress with that since we last met. We think that we have broken through what was a technical barrier to be able to post on LinkedIn. It has been a very long and bureaucratic process, for which I apologise, but it has been out of my hands. With the great support of my colleagues in Belfast, we have busted that one. I will not be as red-faced in front of you again on the matter.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Kerry. I am being sincere when I say that, since you have taken up the post, a lot of work has been done. As a Committee, we will always welcome an update paper from you, very similar to the one that Aodhán gave us at the start of the year. Such communication would be greatly welcomed.

I have one last question for Richard before I hand over to other members. It is about the bipartisan relationships that he referred to. In Northern Ireland, we are all watching, with deep despair, what is happening in Washington, Minnesota and other parts of the US. Can you comment on any difficulties that you face with keeping the Northern Ireland message alive and keeping people engaged and interested in investing and collaborating with us?

Mr Cushnie: There is a lot going on in that space, Chair. We work steadily to build and maintain relationships. I know, from going to Capitol Hill and engaging with members of Congress about Northern Ireland, that the interest is still there. People feel a sense of curiosity about Northern Ireland because of the historical links with the peace process or because of the US250 connection, and we will talk up our strong connections with the Declaration of Independence. You just have to work a little bit harder to make sure that people understand the importance of what we have on offer here.

Interest remains undimmed, particularly outside DC. A lot of the headline, federal news comes from DC, which, of course, affects other places as well — you mentioned Minnesota. However, we also get out to engage in Atlanta. We did some good work with the Department of Justice in Chicago; it was very interested in learning from the lessons of our Police Service and vice versa. We continue to find points of interest, such as technology and artificial intelligence. Everybody is interested in those. It is about finding opportunities to tell the Northern Ireland story. That is what we do, and that is where all those relationships, and the engagement that we do to build them, come to the fore.

Kerry mentioned ministerial visits. We will be blessed this year in St Patrick's week to have a number of Ministers coming over as part of our programme. That is a further opportunity to build relationships and engage on what makes Northern Ireland matter. We keep our attention on what makes Northern Ireland special and use those relationships to sell that, whilst trying to find the points of interest that work in the United States.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Richard.

Mr Dickson: Folks, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon, and in Kerry's case, very late at night. You are all very welcome.

To follow on from the issue of social media and websites. I have been scanning through your three places. The China one is difficult to find at all. They are not exactly exciting. They tend to be underwhelming when it comes to how you are presenting Northern Ireland in those three places that are so important for us. I appreciate that the Northern Ireland Civil Service tends to be dull and grey. However, when I compare you with Scotland and Wales, your social media images and pictures, in the case of China, are shockingly out of date. There are some people who I definitely would not want in those photographs. Given your role, there is a serious issue and an urgent need for those to be refreshed. You say that you cannot do that at your end, and we understand that. However, it is a serious question for the Executive Office to address on how it supports you in delivering communications.

I have a couple of questions for each of you. I will start with Aodhán. I appreciate your closeness to home, in a sense, in what you do. People here probably watch more about what goes on in Europe with the Windsor framework and all that, and there is a lot of scrutiny. On young people and freedom of travel and movement in the EU, there is a method for that through the Irish Republic, and, hopefully, the UK Government are making some changes to move in that direction. What sort of queries do you get and what moves have you made? Young people from Northern Ireland have, in the past, been tremendous in their want and desire to move within European member states.

My second question is this: what connections do you have with local government in Northern Ireland?

Mr Connolly: As far as youth movement is concerned, our Ministers have lines to take, and it is something in which we take a particular interest. We engage with the Commission and with the UK Mission to the European Union, which negotiates not only for Whitehall but for the devolved regions of the UK. We work with the Permanent Representation of Ireland to the EU, and we have lots of conversations with member states not only to make sure that our point of view and concerns are understood but to get as much information as possible so that we can ensure that, when our Ministers have meetings on the issue, they have the latest information to hand.

I thought that you might bring up the negotiations. I am assured that things are moving. It would be remiss of me not to mention the fact that the UK Mission to the EU is regularly in contact, as it was yesterday, to ask for opinions. Other than being told that it is moving forward and that discussions are deep and ongoing, that is all that I can tell you.

Through our international relations team in Belfast, we have a local government group that has all our councils on it. We meet the group and give updates on what we are doing in the three bureaux. We also give our Belfast colleagues updates on visits to Northern Ireland so that the group can meet and make the most of those visits. For example, Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council, the area where I grew up, is pushing its agri-food offer at the moment, so if there are people who are interested in that, that is where they will go. We facilitate local government visits to Brussels, whether for the European Week of Regions and Cities, an exploratory meeting, or for cross-border stuff such as for the east border region, which takes in everywhere from north Down to the Irish Midlands.

I am happy to say that we feed through a lot. More importantly, though, we provide platforms and opportunities.

Mr Dickson: On the business of the UK Mission to the EU communicating with you and keeping you up to date with its negotiations with the EU — from a personal perspective, it is good to see the UK Government inching that bit closer back into Europe — are you genuinely consulted on the complex issues relating to Northern Ireland and our relationship with the EU or are you just being told? Are you asked to contribute meaningfully to the discussions that take place between the UK Government and Brussels?

Mr Connolly: We are asked how things affect them. Our office here is only one touch point. We have colleagues in Belfast in the international relations and EU strategy team, and we have the individual Departments. We facilitate under the structures and substructures of the withdrawal agreement and the Windsor framework. If there is something of particular interest to Northern Ireland, we are asked to make sure that the right people are in the room. That dual approach ensures that we have representation in Brussels and a direct line to the Departments in Belfast.

It is not just about the EU-UK relationship. It is about our relationship with Whitehall, whether it is DEFRA, which is constantly in contact, especially on the sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) arrangements, the Department for Business and Trade or the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. I am a firm believer that you can never have too much information. However, things are much better than they used to be, and we continue to build lines of communication.

Mr Dickson: Kerry, you said that you recently had the Economy Minister in China. I am on record as having been critical of that visit essentially because of China's human rights record and inconsistency in the Minister's approach to a range of international issues. Notwithstanding that, did she — or was she even capable of doing so — raise human rights issues with any of the people whom she met, regardless of any pushback from Chinese officials in those areas?

I will come to the Prime Minister's visit shortly.

Ms Curran: Human rights were discussed when we attended the Committee previously. Since then, I have been raising the issue of human rights with the UK Government here in China. Devolved Governments have responsibility for the implementation of human rights obligations within their jurisdictions. When it falls to another country, however, human rights issues are in the field of international relations, which is not a devolved matter. Therefore, the mechanism through which officials or Ministers can raise human rights issues outside Northern Ireland is the UK Government.

When the Minister for the Economy was here, that was the key component of one of her discussions with the deputy head of mission for the UK to China. They had a lengthy discussion on that matter. The Deputy Head of Mission assured the Minister that human rights issues and concerns were regularly voiced with Chinese officials where appropriate to do so. It would not have been for the Minister to do that. She needs to do that through the UK Government, because that is the system that we sit within.

Mr Dickson: Or the answer to that question is, "All we did was go there and talk to ourselves". We certainly did not push that message out into the Chinese community.

Many people will be queasy about the Prime Minister's going to China, although there is, of course, a business dimension to it. He has taken with him 60 leading UK business people and organisations. Having scanned the list, I see that not a single organisation from Northern Ireland is represented. Do you know why Northern Ireland is not represented on the list of people who accompanied the Prime Minister to China?

Ms Curran: I do. An invitation was sent to a selection of key businesses and cultural organisations in each of the devolved areas — Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The invitations for Northern Ireland were not taken up, so they were extended. After the initial invitations had been turned down, they were offered to other businesses, which also did not accept the opportunity. It was not any disrespect to us in Northern Ireland: the invitations were issued. We have to understand the timing. The businesses and cultural organisations were given very little time to plan for a visit. All the businesses that have attended will have received only about a week's notice, so timeliness was an issue.

There is also the expense of travelling to the other side of the world. The invitations were sent in sincerity, but, you are right: unfortunately, we do not have Northern Ireland businesses attending in person. However, the Invest NI director in China and I, at the bureau, have identified other ways in which we can promote Northern Ireland businesses to the audiences that will be in front of the Prime Minister over the coming days.

Our whiskies — Bushmills and McConnell's — will be actively promoted at the Prime Minister's reception tomorrow evening. Furthermore, through the efforts of Invest NI, four of our products will be promoted at the "House of the UK" event in Shanghai. Products across our food and pottery businesses are being promoted. We have done what we can to represent the businesses that were not able to travel at such short notice.

Mr Dickson: I appreciate the cost to businesses of travelling to such events and the difficulties of short notice. However, it was not short notice to you: you and the bureau will have been aware that the Prime Minister was coming. You might not have known the date, but officials in London will have known. What engagement will you be having? Will you be at any of the events, in person, at which the UK Prime Minister will be participating over the next couple of days?

Ms Curran: Yes, I will be representing the bureau at the Prime Minister's reception tomorrow, which is the welcome reception to Beijing. All the business and cultural delegates and key stakeholders from the UK embassy will be at the ambassador's residence tomorrow evening. Alongside Invest NI, I will be representing Northern Ireland at the UK business forum on Friday morning. That will be an opportunity for me and Invest NI to promote Northern Ireland and its interests in discussions there.

Moreover, we have been given the opportunity to extend an invitation to that forum to Northern Ireland's key stakeholders in China. Therefore it will not be just me and Invest NI. On behalf of Northern Ireland, we have been able to invite our key sister city and provincial stakeholders to the business forum in China. It has been very helpful to us in extending and developing those key stakeholder relationships We will have a good few days’ discussions.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): We will move on. Stewart, I may bring you back in at the end, if we have time, because more members want to ask questions.

Mr Gaston: Good afternoon. I will start with Brussels. Aodhán, does the Brussels office have seats on any of the EU-UK Specialised Committees? If so, which ones? I want to understand your role.

Mr Connolly: There is only one Specialised Committee, but there are Specialised Committee subgroups. We sit on some that look at the Windsor framework governance structures. Specialised Committee officials are asked to appear as part of the UK delegation. The UK is the interlocutor for Northern Ireland in that process, and we are asked to make some opening remarks. There are other structured subgroups as part of the Specialised Committee. For example, there are ones on SPS arrangements, state aid and non-food goods. It is not just us and TEO that are represented on them but other home Departments. Even the Food Standards Agency is represented when it comes to discussing SPS considerations for food and drink.

Mr Gaston: Is it fair to say that your office does more than simply observe and report on EU developments. It makes representations to EU institutions as well.

Mr Connolly: That is part of its role. We represent our Ministers' views. It is the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive, not just of the Executive Office. Where there are ministerial lines, those are exactly what we use if there are concerns. We work at the service and direction of our Ministers, and that is where the line is drawn.

Mr Gaston: What representations have you made about AI and cyber-resilience acts?

Mr Connolly: We talk regularly about those areas. There is the joint —.

Mr Gaston: What position has your office taken on them?

Mr Connolly: Our office does not take a position. If Ministers have a position, we will take that position. If they do not have a position on something, we will be there to report what is coming forward or what the EU functions are. I have to be very clear: we act at the direction of our Ministers. If they have lines, we can use those lines. Outside of that, we do not have a remit to push anything.

Mr Gaston: You will therefore act and argue for Northern Ireland to be subject to those acts only if you get a clear direction from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister?

Mr Connolly: I do not think that I can answer in any other way than to say that we work under the direction of our Ministers.

Mr Gaston: Who are your Ministers?

Mr Connolly: Our Ministers are the First Minister and the deputy First Minister.

Mr Gaston: Yes, so you will argue for Northern Ireland to be subject to those acts only if you get a clear direction from the joint office of the First Minister and the deputy First Minister?

Mr Connolly: We do not argue for our being subject to acts. That is not our job. Our job is to make representations, as we are allowed to do and directed to do, about impacts on Northern Ireland. EU legislation is EU legislation, and we are very clear that officials from Northern Ireland do not legislate at EU level. We do not change the laws in that way. Through our membership of those groups and through our relationships, however, we provide an understanding of the potential challenges at an early stage so that we can help mitigate their impact by informing the UK Government and others. We feed them Northern Ireland-specific data, evidence and operational insight into the discussions with the Commission, member states and other stakeholders throughout that process. It is not our job to push for, or against, anything. Rather, it is our job to provide Northern Ireland-specific evidence and data.

Mr Gaston: I will move to a more live issue, which is today's developments regarding the EU vehicle type approval regulations: regulation (EU) 2025/14. Did you make any representations, or were representations made, to say that that regulation should be added to the Windsor framework? What do you make of the UK Government's bypassing the applicability motion procedure and the Assembly by introducing that regulation today?

Mr Connolly: My taking a position on what the Government have done would be in the sphere of politics, and you know as well as I do that that is something into which I cannot be drawn. Unfortunately, I —

Mr Gaston: Was the office involved?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Let him finish.

Mr Connolly: — have not seen what went through today. I am more than happy to follow up with you on that question. I spent all day trying to get ready for the Committee meeting, but that was not something on which I concentrated. The brief for today was the office's wider work. I apologise, but I will get back to you.

Mr Gaston: It is clear that it is essentially news to you. It is therefore not something has been discussed or worked on in the Brussels office.

Mr Connolly: That is not what I said, but I do not want to give you a bum steer. I do not want to provide you with evidence or data that is not correct, but I will certainly check and find out for you, just as I do for everyone else. We have made representations and had meetings, but I need to check with departmental officials here and in Belfast to see exactly what has occurred. Rest assured that I will provide you with an answer.

Mr Gaston: I move on to Kerry in Beijing. It was interesting that you said that international relations is not a devolved matter. I see, however, that the China bureau has:

What "diplomatic" means to me is being involved in the management of international relations. You pointed out that international relations is an excepted matter under the 1998 agreement, so why would you describe your bureau in such as way?

Ms Curran: We are a diplomatic office in the sense that, under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, in order for Northern Ireland to have a presence in China, it has to be through the UK Government's ability to have an embassy here. I am therefore here as part of the UK mission to China, representing Northern Ireland's interests. Human rights, however, remains a reserved matter, so, when Northern Ireland wishes to make representations on human rights matters, the legal process is for us to do that through the UK Government representatives here in Beijing.

Mr Gaston: Did TEO ever approve the description of the bureau as "diplomatic"? Based on what you said, because you come under its mission, do you report to the UK as well?

Ms Curran: First, it is the UK Government who describe us as diplomatic and representative. The nature of our being here under the Vienna Convention is through the UK Government. It is therefore a UK Government description.

Apologies, what was the second part of your question?

Mr Gaston: It was my trying to tease out the basis on which you are using the term "diplomatic" when there is no international standing in Northern Ireland for using it. You are saying, however, that the UK set that title, which has allowed you to use the term so that the bureau appears to have international standing.

Ms Curran: To clarify, we represent Northern Ireland in China as part of the UK Government's mission and its ability, under the Vienna Convention, to have an embassy there. We do not do that independently of the UK Government, hence their description of it as a diplomatic posting. A lot of that has to do with the protections that allow UK staff, including those from Northern Ireland, to operate safely and securely in China. It enables me to have a diplomatic ID card and for members of my family to have one when they are out in China. It is therefore just part of how all the partners across government are described under the UK mission. It is a procedural process, but it does not alter the nature of areas in which I can discuss and push on. As I said, human rights remains a reserved matter. My mechanism for engaging on human rights, which is also that of our Ministers and officials who travel to China, is still the international relations portfolio of the UK Government. Those are just the rules.

Mr Gaston: Do you meet the Chinese state, or parties linked to it?

Ms Curran: We do at times. We meet Ministries.

Mr Gaston: Can you name them? Can you give us a flavour of which you meet?

Ms Curran: Absolutely. We do not do so independently. When the Minister for the Economy visited us last month, we met the Chinese Ministry of Commerce and the Ministry of Education. Our ability to do that partly depended on our taking along an FCDO representative, owing to international relations not being devolved. We therefore had a UK Government representative in the room on each occasion.

Mr Gaston: When, say, the Economy Minister is not out in China, do you meet Ministries on your own?

Ms Curran: That is a good question. There are occasions on which I am in the room with the UK Government representatives who are hosting such meetings, but I do not independently set them up at a central government level. We meet at a municipal level, of course, as part of our sister city relationships, but such meetings are just part of ongoing local government relations, which are not considered to be diplomatic in that context, hence we are able to do so.

Mr Gaston: The UK's position on China is that it poses a systemic threat, including from espionage and interference. How does that affect your work in China?

Ms Curran: You are absolutely right that that is part of the security services in the UK's analysis, but UK Foreign Office policy on engaging with China is that it seeks a stable, long-term relationship in which it is able to challenge it on issues on which China and the UK Government do not agree, such as human rights issues, and it does that. It also seeks to collaborate with China in areas in which doing so is good for long-term economic growth and to compete with it where there is opportunity for UK-wide organisations, universities and industries to come in ahead of Chinese organisations in those spaces. That is often talked about as the "three Cs" of overall Foreign Office policy, under which we can cooperate, compete and challenge.

Mr Gaston: Last week, I attended an event at Stormont hosted by Open Doors. It had just produced its 'World Watch List 2026', which lists the top-50 countries in which Christians are persecuted. Are you aware of where China sits on the list?

Ms Curran: I have not seen the report, no.

Mr Gaston: China sits at number 17 on that list. I raised that issue with you previously, and it concerns me. When you go to any of your meetings, is there any talk of restricting what you can say about China's human rights violations and about the concerns that we have back home about its persecution of Christians?

Ms Curran: If I am meeting a Chinese Government official, and I am the UK representative in the room, that is not an area that I am technically able to discuss. Given the types of meeting that we have, we do not meet individuals in that space. The Northern Ireland Bureau out here gives a lot of consideration to human rights — it is pretty integral to how we operate — so it is unlikely that we will hold a meeting or engage with people about whom that was a concern. If, in arranging a meeting, that were a concern, the meeting would not go ahead. Where human rights is an outstanding concern, we do not pursue meetings with individuals to progress engagement.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): OK. Thanks.

Mr Gaston: May I just ask one about —?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Very quickly.

Mr Gaston: Richard, I want to raise with you the revelations about Cantor Fitzgerald pulling 300 jobs because of concerns about Sinn Féin's geopolitical stance being anti-Israel and anti-Trump. Did you have any discussions with Cantor Fitzgerald? Were you aware that the company had pulled 300 jobs because of the views held by the Minister?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Let him answer, because we need to move on.

Mr Cushnie: I was not involved in that. The matter has not been raised with me here. It is a commercial decision, so I was not involved in it. I do not know the background.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): We will move on.

Mrs Cameron: Thank you for your attendance at the Committee today. At the outset, I thank you for the work that you are doing in different parts of the world. It is very important that Northern Ireland be able to make its tiny mark on what is a huge map. I know that you all do very important work. In my previous role, I had the pleasure of visiting Aodhán in Brussels and to avail myself of his spectacular hospitality. I know that an awful lot of good work is going on out there.

I have a couple of questions: one is for Kerry, while one is for Aodhán. I will put a question to Kerry first. We can see a theme emerging already today. No matter where you are and whomever you are talking to when you mention China, the next three words that are spoken are "human rights abuses". That is something about which everybody is clearly very concerned. How does the bureau in China ensure that there is a balance struck between promoting inward investment and recognising the huge concerns about the extensive ethical and human rights abuses by the Chinese Government?

Ms Curran: Thank you very much for the opportunity to answer that question. It is an important issue, and it is right that we talk about it here. The lessons that the bureau has learnt are as a result of the challenges that many other countries across the world's missions in China have faced over these past years. The UK Government's position of challenging where we need to and where policies are not in line with UK policies — for example, on human rights — is a fair one. I have seen evidence that they perform that challenge function quite well. Part of the ability to have that challenge function, however, is to have a stable relationship, whereby you can have those conversations. Again, the UK Government are developing that relationship very well, through, first, the Prime Minister's visit and, previously, the Foreign Minister's visit and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's visit. All of them have now been out here in the past 12 months. They have a good relationship with China, so they can have those difficult conversations.

Our role is similar. It is not a devolved matter for us, so I am able to have those conversations through the networks that I have, through the China board of management and the weekly meetings I have with the deputy head of mission, at which such challenges come up. We are able to discuss them openly and candidly because we have a presence here in order to make sure that Northern Ireland's voice is heard, and that really helps.

We also make decisions on what it is that we do China. We do not pursue opportunities where that human rights challenge exists. We are working with sister cities on collaborations with schools, further education institutions and universities on growing our economy. We are not working with cities or regions where the UK Government, for example, have identified that there are specific challenges. We do not do that. There is a balance to be struck between being a good friend and a good voice inside the networks, where we are able to, which is primarily through the UK mission. We also have to ensure that the relationships that we have focus on positive outcomes for everybody, rather than on areas in which there are challenges.

Mrs Cameron: Thank you. That is very helpful. I will go to Aodhán next. It would be remiss of me not to congratulate you on your status as a new daddy. I am very pleased for you, but not envious. [Laughter.]

Mr Connolly: It is a hell of a lot harder at 49 than it was at 29. [Laughter.]

Mrs Cameron: You and your team do a vast amount of work in Brussels. Irrespective of the level of engagement that the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels has with EU agencies, do you agree that it cannot overcome the vast democratic deficit that has been created by the protocol? Can you tell us how the office's role has changed, and has had to change, since Brexit?

Mr Connolly: OK. I will say first, however, that, although I am looking forward to the new junior Minister's coming to the Ulster fry event this year, you will be very much missed.

On the democratic deficit, although you can ask me to agree, I cannot comment on a political statement. The most important thing that our office does is to represent Northern Ireland's concerns, find opportunities and showcase innovation. That underpins everything that we do. How our role has changed substantially is that, as the only part of the UK that continues to have EU law in place, we have to make sure that we engage early on anything that we hear, even if it is not yet a proposal. There is an old saying in Brussels, which is, "If it is written down, it is too late". Before a proposal gets to the European Parliament and is written down, all the bureaux hold hospitality events in order to have face-to-face and eye-to-eye conversations. The three of us do that. Even in the past two weeks, globally, we have been able to work together to provide our Ministers with information on what US tariffs will mean for Northern Ireland, the knock-on effects for China and the response from the EU.

We have also had to widen not only our monitoring of and our engagement with Departments so that they can service the Assembly's Committees, especially the new Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee. Our work has grown exponentially, and part of the reason for that is that we need to be across everything that may or may not affect Northern Ireland. We have to be clear that our role covers not only direct but indirect issues that could affect our supply chains and with whom we work.

We have also had to look at how we engage on individual issues. The previous time that I was in front of the Committee, I talked about the results that we had achieved on tariff rate quotas and dental amalgam, and we continue to get results. Over the past few weeks, you will have heard that the physical checks on goods travelling from GB to NI have reduced from 10% to 8%. We have been able to support DAERA's good work and that of our retailers and suppliers by engaging with member states and the Commission to show that Northern Ireland takes its responsibilities seriously and to tell them about the effect that reducing checks from 10% to 8% has on goodwill and faith in Northern Ireland and what that means for movement towards doing checks on 5% of goods. We did a lot of work before we came before the Committee in May, and that reduction then happened before Christmas.

We therefore continue to get results, but, for every big-ticket result, there are approximately 30 or 40 issues on which we can provide information and clarity, by saying, "Whoa, hold on there, folks. Have you though about this?". We attend the Committee, speak to member states, build coalitions with other people who are affected by Brexit and work closely with our Whitehall colleagues. We also work with the Permanent Representation of Ireland to the EU and the UK Mission to the EU. All that means that our work has mushroomed. Our contacts and our location, however, mean that we can make tangible differences to people, businesses and communities across Northern Ireland.

Mrs Cameron: Thank you for that, Aodhán. I will give Richard a chance to say something with my next question; I do not know whether the rest of you will want to comment on it. You clearly have very small teams. How does that work day-to-day, and are your teams sufficient?

Mr Cushnie: Civil servants always ask for more resources, but we are very mindful of the challenging climate everywhere. We work hard to deliver. We have a team of four in DC, which covers the US and Canada. I am immensely proud of our work to deliver across the range of stakeholders with which we work. The partnerships that we deliver here through our work with universities and others are a key part of that, but we also have partnerships with those at home. Aodhán referred to our colleagues in Belfast and the international relations team. Certainly, for a big event, such as St Patrick's Day, we will work flexibly to deploy resources and make sure that we can use staff from those teams.

One could always do more, but, at the moment, we are focusing on rebuilding those networks, strengthening social media connections, expanding how we get the message out there and delivering our St Patrick's Day and America250 events, which will be our biggest this year. We will be able to do it. It is very exciting, and we appreciate the resources that we get from home to deliver those big events.

Mrs Cameron: Thank you.

Ms McLaughlin: Thank you to everyone for your answers and the work that you all do on behalf of Northern Ireland in America, Canada, China and Brussels.

When it comes to the international outlook, the old world order has gone, and, as Mark Carney said last week in Davos, it "is not coming back". That tilts your strategic way of working, because you are in a completely different geopolitical context. How has the fact that the old world order of international rules and engagement has been blown up by Donald Trump impacted on the work in China, America and Brussels? In each bureau, a lot of activity is under way, but the Executive need to give you a strategic direction on how to deal with those templates, the changing world views and what is happening. We have seen a big trade agreement between India and the EU. International leaders are going to China to talk about the economy. As mentioned, Keir Starmer is there today. Things are changing, and the dominance of some Western regions, or the respect that existed for them, is no longer there. How do you deal with that in each of your areas?

Mr Connolly: I will start, as far as Brussels is concerned. There has been more change in trade in the past 12 months than in the 25 years that I have been engaged in such matters. The current US Administration are not particularly fond of multi-nationalism and multilateral treaties. Things have changed. As the old saying goes, strange times make for strange bedfellows. We see coalitions now that would not have happened five or 10 years ago.

The strength of what we do comes into play due to where we are based. Were the EU to make reciprocal tariffs against the US, China or anybody else, those could have knock-on effects. The EU has a particular concern about Chinese dumping, and anti-dumping measures could mean something for Northern Ireland, as could the disruption, shall we say, that has started in America.

The fact that we have a global presence — we are in three areas that make the most difference economically — means that we have an ability to provide information to our Ministers in a way that otherwise would not be possible. About this time last year, when the tariff stuff started, there were emails going at 2.00 am between Kerry, Richard and I and the Belfast team to make sure that the 7.00 am update for our Ministers on exactly what had happened with tariffs was there. We have to make sure that we are a constant voice. It is not just about the information but about reminding people about Northern Ireland and telling the good story of how we are an area of innovative and collaborative partnerships, It is also about making sure that, no matter where the flex or pressure points are, we have the relationships and networks in place to get the information that we need, exert soft diplomacy and influence and make sure that, basically, we are not forgotten about.

Kerry, you have looked at that.

Ms Curran: Thank you, Aodhán. For many of us following geopolitics, these are certainly more interesting times. I speak from the perspective of being out in China and working with our key stakeholders on the ground in China and back at home, including the education sector, the tourism sector, local authorities, business representative groups and Departments.

What has actually changed for us regarding the opportunities in China, which is what we are thinking about, is Chinese policy itself. We are at the start of a new five-year plan for China. Looking at China's plans for the world, specifically its GDP growth plans, it understands that, because of political pressure outside of China on Chinese trade imbalances, it needs to increase its own consumption. There is only so much that it can produce for the market, so China is trying to increase consumer consumption among its — it states — 400 million middle-class people. Those people have a lot of savings, and the Government want them to spend more because they are not investing it in the property market. The Government therefore want more imports from outside of China. When the Minister for the Economy was here, the consistent message that she was receiving at engagements was, "We want to buy more things from outside of China". That is something on which the whole of the UK is looking to capitalise, not just through goods exports but through education and tourism as a service. At the moment, the UK's overall exports to China are worth £30·8 billion a year. The UK is framing what is happening by saying that there is the opportunity for a £1 billion increase in exports to China per annum. We may see some opportunities arising as a result of the PM's visit.

For us at the Northern Ireland Bureau, China, with our NI hats on, and for Invest NI and Tourism Ireland, we still have the same plan to a great extent because we have our same capabilities. What do we excel at in Northern Ireland and where do we innovate? What is our capacity for our businesses to export those goods or services? Where is the market opportunity in China? While there has been a lot of noise in the geopolitical space, the fundamentals for us have not shifted hugely because we only have a certain capability, capacity and opportunity. While opportunity is the area that is growing, there is the need to increase our capability and capacity back home to take advantage of that. So, while big things have changed, many things remain the same.

Ms McLaughlin: Thank you very much. Richard?

Mr Cushnie: I echo what Kerry said about the fundamentals, because the US remains our second largest export market at £1·7 billion. Canada, our third-largest market, is not far behind. It is about having those economic relationships. It is also about having those relationships through tourism. A high number of US tourists — 190,000 — visit Northern Ireland as do 51,000 Canadian tourists. Therefore, tourism remains a big one for us, and we are working jointly with Invest NI and Tourism Ireland.

The universities are a really strong sector. Queen's University and Ulster University punch way about their weight not just in attracting students, which we support them with, but in respect of research partnerships with the great university sector here.

There has been a bit of a shift, which is partly to do with Northern Ireland's trajectory anyway. The peace process, which put us on the map in Washington DC, is more historical now. That has opened up opportunities for us to focus on state relationships. I was in Atlanta, building those relationships. There are huge economic parts of the US, in which you can form connections for people at home, that we may not have looked at before. LA is another one. Screen is such an important part of our industry, as is gaming, through Studio Ulster. It is about building relationships there, with more engagement at state level, and working with Invest NI, taking account of the "American First" model and looking at where Northern Irish businesses can set up here in the US if they want to. It is about supporting and enabling that and making sure that people at home understand the market and the opportunities that exist here. Therefore, it is no longer just about attracting large amounts of US investment into Northern Ireland; it is about balancing that out. That is good for everybody.

Therefore, the fundamentals remain the same, but there are things that we can do around that to build stronger relationships.

Ms McLaughlin: The earlier conversations were about value for money, for want of a better expression. If Northern Ireland wants an international presence, we have to pay for it. We cannot afford to pay big bucks, but we have to understand that we have to pay for it. A budget is required for that, and I support that being provided because there is a lot to be gained from building relationships and making connections.

The really important part is the way in which you communicate how you have got value for money and how you identify what your presence has meant and what doors you were able to open. It is about how you demonstrate that success. That success may not always be monetary success. It could be a relationship with Ulster University that leads to an organisation or company from Northern Ireland being able to make that connection. In that case, you are not making the money, but it is happening because of you.

Communication is a key component of that. Honestly, it only invites controversy if you do not have the proper communication that demonstrates success and value. From your papers, we can see your activity, and you are going into a critical time because all your resources will be fixated on St Patrick's Day and developing relationships and those door-opening exercises. However, it is critical that we see a communications plan and a joint effort. I talked about international relationships and the change in things, and we have to see that the bureaus are working jointly under key strategic themes and that it is having an impact.

The next time that we come together, it would be beneficial for members and our constituents if you could demonstrate that joint working and the joint outcomes, as we would know then that your work is value for money. That is not a question; it is an observation from sitting around listening to all the conversations today.

Mr Brett: Colleagues, thank you very much for your presentations. Thank you for the work that you have done and will continue to do. I am a huge champion of promoting Northern Ireland across the world, and the role that you play in that is vital. That is within the context of you acting under the direction and control of Ministers on devolved issues.

Ultimately, on reserved matters, you make your representations through the proper channel — the sovereign UK Government.

Richard, I will start with you. I congratulate you again on your post. You have brought much-needed professionalism and stability back to the Northern Ireland Bureau in Washington. You opened your remarks by saying that Ministers have confirmed that they are going over for St Patrick's Day and America250. Which Ministers have confirmed that they are attending Washington this year?

Mr Cushnie: The Communities Minister has confirmed. We are discussing it with other Ministers, including the Education Minister and our Ministers. The Speaker of the Assembly is considering a visit as well. We offer support and advice on what those visits could look like.

Mr Brett: Has there been no confirmation from the Executive Office yet?

Mr Cushnie: We do not have formal invitations for the main events, so we are waiting to see the schedule. The Speaker's lunch and the White House reception have not been confirmed yet. Some of the global instability that we referred to applies as well. There are not yet invitations for them to respond to.

Mr Brett: Have you issued invitations to the Northern Ireland Bureau event?

Mr Cushnie: We have not issued those yet. We are in the process of planning that event.

Mr Brett: OK. Do you expect the Economy Minister to be in Washington?

Mr Cushnie: We are aware that she is making her plans at the minute. There is talk of a west coast visit being under consideration, but we are not clear yet on whether she will come to DC. The issue is always getting the invitations so that there is clarity and people know what they can commit to and how long they will have to set aside in their diaries in order to come. Until we get that clarity, it is just not possible to pin down all the events. America250 is the exception, because the Communities Minister is planning to co-host an event with the America250 commission, and, therefore, he has more control over that.

Mr Brett: When other Ministers visit the United States, does the bureau attend those meetings?

Mr Cushnie: Subject to resources, we do. When we had the Communities Minister out in October, I think that I attended all or most of his engagements. As I said, we are a small team, so it is not always possible to spread ourselves so thinly. I should have mentioned that the Health Minister is considering a visit as well. We are looking at offering advice at this stage.

As I said, we are keen to broaden beyond DC. We are offering advice and engagement for Ministers on other places that they can go to in order to build up those relationships. Nashville is particularly strong on med tech and health innovation, so we are talking to our Health Minister about that. For the Communities Minister, we are looking at something in Atlanta, following up on the relationships that we have there. Given that geographical spread, we cannot always attend the visits, but we provide support and advice to make sure that they run smoothly.

Mr Brett: Was anyone from the Northern Ireland Bureau in DC at the meeting between the Minister for the Economy and Cantor Fitzgerald on 11 March 2025, after which 300 jobs were lost to Northern Ireland?

Mr Cushnie: We were not at that meeting.

Mr Brett: Did you provide advice for that meeting?

Mr Cushnie: No.

Mr Brett: Why not, given that you said that you provide advice?

Mr Cushnie: Again, we are a small team. We work in very close partnership with our colleagues. That was an Invest NI-driven engagement, I assume, so it would have provided the advice.

Mr Brett: No problem. I appreciate that, Richard. Thank you.

Aodhán, Pam stole my line of congratulations, so I will just add mine.

Mr Connolly: Thanks, Phillip.

Mr Brett: Congratulations to you. Thank you for the work that you do out there.

Aodhán, on the economy, you are in a unique position in that, thankfully, the Northern Ireland services sector is not covered by the auspices of the Northern Ireland protocol. That gives an advantage to Northern Ireland. If there are EU countries or firms that are looking to access services in the UK market but are continuing to trade with their European neighbours, Northern Ireland is a prime place for investment. Are you guys able to promote the services sector in Northern Ireland, given its unfettered access to the UK services sector?

Mr Connolly: To put our raison d'être very bluntly, if it is about Northern Ireland and it is worth selling, we will sell it. That is how we look at things. One of the biggest problems that we have is that a lot of people do not know Northern Ireland. There are 300-plus representations here in Brussels. It is a very crowded marketplace, which, again, is why we have the events, but we have carved a really good niche for ourselves. That niche has changed, and I have to pay tribute to the work of Richard and Kerry, because, through a pincer movement globally, we have been able to prove that Northern Ireland is not the past and not the Northern Ireland of 25 years ago. Northern Ireland is an innovative and collaborative partner that does really well. In the public sector, for example, we regularly have the Department of Justice out. We had an event in this office before Christmas at which we had some of the biggest practitioners in justice to talk about trafficking. People turned up, not just to discuss that but to listen to what Northern Ireland was doing.

On the economic side, an Invest NI team is based in our offices, and we work very closely with them. They support us with events and have regular engagement with our economy liaison officer, making sure that there is a constant exchange of policy and commercial insights. We have provided Invest NI with commercial leads, and it is not just about goods; it is about servicesl. It has been able to feed that into its new business pipeline, and if those businesses were not clients of Invest, they now are or they are in touch with the relevant Invest NI stakeholders.

We are also not just looking at countries when it comes to services. We have provided links to the Flemish trading and investment agency, and we had a notable engagement this year when we, along with Invest NI, were invited to a presentation in Ostend on the blue economy. Again, a lot of that is about services. Attendance at that engagement opened the door to meeting several important stakeholders. We look at the economy as a whole. There are different priorities that will be set by our Ministers, but when there is an opportunity, we do not throw and miss the wall, as my dad would say.

Mr Brett: Thank you, Aodhán.

Kerry, thank you for your work and for continuing to raise the human rights abuses and issues with the UK Government in China. It is important that Northern Ireland plays its role in highlighting those. I want to talk about the focus on inward tourism from China to Northern Ireland and on the screen industry, which you spoke about regarding the Economy Minister's recent visit. Will you give us some details on that and any trends that you have seen with regard to Chinese visitors to Northern Ireland?

Ms Curran: Thank you very much. The tourism and screen industries are two of my favourite topics, so thank you. I will start on the tourism side. We often think that we do not have that many Chinese tourists coming to Northern Ireland because it is a very long way to come, but, actually, Tourism Ireland has been doing a wonderful job at selling Northern Ireland in China through high-value tour groups. That is what it is focused on. The Minister for the Economy, when she visited us in December, went to a Tourism Ireland event, alongside the chair of Tourism Ireland, to promote Northern Ireland to those tour operators who are, essentially, taking the elite of China to places across the world that are slightly unique and, let us face it, Instagrammable. The tourism and screen industries are actually intrinsically linked in that aspect. We found in the Chinese market that there is a new trend called "set-jetting" — not jet-setting but set-jetting. In China, there is a lot of interest in visiting famous sets from movies around the world. Tourism Ireland has been doing a wonderful job at promoting Northern Ireland's film set industry, the new facilities at NI Screen and Studio Ulster and the work that we do together in those spaces.

There might be some new products being developed as a result of that big interest. At the moment, it is bringing in about £20 million per year from China to Northern Ireland. That is not a small amount, but it is an amount that has huge potential to grow. I believe that, for the whole of the UK, Chinese tourism is worth £475 million, on 2024 figures, so there is huge potential for us to grow that £20 million further, and no better people to do it with than Tourism Ireland, which is doing a great job on the ground.

Stepping over that link to the screen industry and screen tourism — as I say, it is huge; 'Game of Thrones' probably has a lot to do with that — the screen industry itself, and the opportunities to sell our screen industry as a service into China, is really growing. We have had exciting developments on that in recent months. I spoke at an event at the Jackie Chan film school. My colleagues Aodhán and Richard will be sick of me telling this story. At that event, I had the opportunity to sell the collaboration between our government, education system and industry in promoting the development of the Northern Ireland film industry. We have some wonderful examples of that, with Studio Ulster being the prime example as one of the top production facilities in the world, which is a great accolade for us to be able to push out and market here in China.

Mr Brett: And in North Belfast. [Laughter.]

Ms Curran: Yes. For such a small place, we are literally world-leading. That is not something that we have put on as a tagline. We can evidence that. This is the best in the world, and it is very exciting. The bureau has had film school events in Huaibei, and also the Northern Ireland film industry event, which was hosted alongside Ulster University, representing Studio Ulster developments at the ambassador's residence in Beijing, with 60 guests from the film industry who wanted to know more about how to engage with the film industry in NI. Professor Frank Lyons, senior responsible officer at Ulster University for Studio Ulster, did a wonderful job in selling how amazing Studio Ulster is. An hour had passed at the event, and he had run out of Chinese business cards, such was the extent of the interest and engagement, and that has been ongoing since. We have been in contact since that film industry event in December. That is maybe going to be one of the areas where we are going to see a shift in NI selling into China in that industry, which is just great. We have put the investment in, the opportunity and market is here, and we have the capability and capacity. It all matches up, so it is a very exciting time.

Mr Brett: Thank you for that. That is great. Before I ask Richard my final question, Kerry, can you get a photo of the Prime Minister tonight with some McConnell's whisky, which is distilled in North Belfast? [Laughter.]

Ms Curran: I will try my best.

Mr Brett: Richard, can you outline the tech conference that you are organising?

Mr Cushnie: It is still at the planning stage.

Mr Brett: OK.

Mr Cushnie: There is such interest here in cyber. DC is surrounded by lots of cyber industry and federal Government work as well, and artificial intelligence. As Kerry said, it is another one of our great assets. There is the work of David Crozier and co, and universities are doing this. It is a strong suit for us. We are looking at a partnership, probably around June, based on the Big Data model, which runs a series of conferences, and with other partners. It ran one in New York last year and has done others. We will get St Patrick's and the main America250 event out of the way, but that is what we will be looking to some time around June.

Mr Brett: Perfect.

Mr Cushnie: We are looking at a partnership model to highlight something that Northern Ireland does really well, which, as Aodhán said, challenges some of the older stereotypes of what people might have in their minds about what Northern Ireland stands for.

Ms Murphy: Folks, I am not going to bore you with a long preamble. Again, thanks for joining us. It has been a few months since we last had you in. I thank you for all the work that you are doing in your respective areas in different political circumstances and environments as well, which can be difficult given the political climate that we are in.

Aodhán, I want to start with you. It may have been Stewart who mentioned the Agriculture Department's remit and input in Brussels. DAERA has two staff members there at the moment. Before I continue, I declare an interest, as I sit on the AERA Committee. In relation to those two staff members, the recent Windsor framework report recommended that additional Civil Service staff should be seconded to Brussels by DAERA. What input does DAERA actually have over there, along with DEFRA and yourselves?

Mr Connolly: We work very closely with the Departments, and DAERA, DOJ and DFE are probably the ones that we work most closely with. DAERA always had one person here, but that has been upgraded to two. They work on things such as SPS and some of the environmental stuff. We have very strongly delineated areas for the DAERA staff to work on, and they are complemented by our TEO policy staff. They sit as part of the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive family. They are part of our policy team. We make sure that anything that we hear is passed on to them and vice versa. I am absolutely delighted that we have two DAERA staff members now. That shows the commitment of the perm sec and the Minister to making things smoother and more understood and to get more information. To be honest, that is where the real value here has been. We have always tried to get the most information possible. Information is currency; it is the most important thing when it comes to our Departments and our Ministers making informed decisions. Having two people from DAERA here means that they are knocking more doors, having more meetings and attending more events, and they are able to provide that information. Also, they are able to make representations based on what their constituents in the farming community and the environmental community are telling them.

The recent Murphy report outlined, as did the House of Lords report, that the vast majority of people who gave evidence to those two reports said that the office here does a great job — we are very thankful for that recognition — but that they would like to see more. Again, I will use the line that Richard used earlier, which is that, first, we have to provide value for money for the public purse, and we have to cut our cloth to what we have. Sometimes we have to clinically prioritise the issues that we are able to do a deep dive on. That being said, we are in regular contact with the Cabinet Office in order to look at how we may be able to get funding. What that looks like, and how that will make a difference numbers-wise or delivery-wise, we cannot answer, but negotiations and conversations are ongoing.

Ms Murphy: OK. Thank you for that, Aodhán. Your last point about Cabinet Office funding is very interesting and is, perhaps, one for us to keep an eye on, given your remit and the important work that you have to do over there. In relation to engagement and input with the Irish embassy and Irish MEPs — where is that at? I am thinking about that at a strategic level and strategic cross-border projects. How does that come about, and what is the current level of engagement?

Mr Connolly: We have a huge level of engagement with the Permanent Representation of Ireland to the EU and the UK Mission to the EU. Obviously, Ireland takes a particular interest in Northern Ireland. To quote my da, "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander". The representation will obviously be interested in anything that affects supply chains North/South etc. We also have someone seconded into the Irish perm rep — that is a long-standing arrangement — just as we have someone seconded into the UK Mission to the EU. To be honest, we are really lucky to have them not only seconded in but put in areas that allow them to work with us on the Windsor framework, trade and other issues.

Irish MEPs will, of course, take a definite interest. We have regular conversations with MEPs from Ireland, but, as well as that, we will look at what strategically benefits Northern Ireland most. For example, the international trade committee, the environment committee and the agriculture committee are areas where our Departments, businesses and communities across Northern Ireland really take an interest in things that affect them. We will very much lean into that prioritised strategic view on whom we engage with. We did a joint session with MEPs and with Scotland and Wales before Christmas, and that allowed us to talk to 60 or 70 MEPs, a lot of whom had heard of Northern Ireland but had never actually engaged with us. You have to remember that there was about a 60% changeover in MEPs at the last election.

To answer your question, relations with Permanent Representation of Ireland to the EU are very good. We are very lucky to have that strong relationship with them, and similarly with the Irish MEPs, but we engage strategically with a wide range of MEPs.

Ms Murphy: Thank you, Aodhán. That was a very detailed breakdown and a quick run-through of a few different aspects.

Richard, I will move on to you. When we last spoke, we discussed the fact that the US Government have still not appointed a special envoy since Joe Kennedy's departure in 2023 or 2024. I had Joe in my constituency on two or three occasions during his tenure, and he was absolutely brilliant, specifically in nailing down a lot of the economic regeneration arguments. He got a lot of it. Unlike some special envoys and, no doubt, some other global politicians, he got the North and its people. In terms of what a special envoy would mean to the bureau in having that extra influence over there with stakeholders, can you expand on how that would help the bureau, Richard?

Mr Cushnie: To add to your support, I will say that Joe Kennedy III did an amazing job. He was absolutely fantastic, and that level of engagement at home across all parties and the amount of support that he had was astonishing. He was a fantastic envoy, as indeed many of the other envoys have been. The US ambassador to the UK, Warren Stephens, has also been a fantastic support. Even before he was appointed last St Patrick’s Day, he played a key role in making introductions for the deputy First Minister to connect with people when she was in DC. We also have, of course, the US consul general in Belfast, James Applegate, who has also been a fantastic supporter. I was talking to him just yesterday. He also gets Northern Ireland. The State Department keeps a close eye on things as well.

It is always great to have another voice supporting Northern Ireland, particularly somebody of Joe's stature, but working with the existing systems and the really strong voices that we have in the US system can deliver the same results. I am very keen that we make as much as possible of the US ambassador's interest, engagement, knowledge and connections to provide exactly the same kind of service. Of course, you are competing with the rest of the UK in that sense, so you do not have the same special person, but you have a direct line into the very highest levels of the Administration through the ambassador. For a small place like us, being able to focus on a key contact like that, and through the consulate, can deliver the same kind of outcomes. Joe certainly did an amazing job, and all support is always welcome, but the people who we have in place are also really effective.

Ms Murphy: Thank you, Richard. I will move on quickly. Earlier in your briefing, you made the point about the constrained financial position that every Department and every bureau is in and about having to take calculated long-term decisions on exactly what you put your money into. Given the huge area that your bureau has to cover throughout the US and Canada, can you talk me through exactly how you prioritise some of that funding depending on where you are going, from city to city? You mentioned LA and its relevance to the screen and film industry. I think that San Diego is Invest NI's hub, possibly. I could be wrong on that. Can you just talk me through the protocols there?

Mr Cushnie: Again, it is really about trying to find where the strongest points of connection are for Northern Ireland. Sometimes it is driven by Departments as well. I think that Aodhán referred to the engagement with the Department of Justice, which has been a really strong partner for us. It was interested in Chicago, because it felt that it could learn most there. We supported that visit. As you mentioned, the screen industry and gaming means that LA is strong in that regard, so we want to focus there. Atlanta and the south-east is a huge economic driver in the US that is sometimes overlooked. Historically, it is very strong on the Scots-Irish and Ulster-Scots piece, which is why we are keen to do more there around the 250th anniversary. I mentioned Nashville as well. It has particular strengths around med tech and health innovation. We use the information that we gather to prioritise and look at where we will get the best impact for Northern Ireland. We have talked a bit about our plans for a cyber conference; that is because cyber is so strong here in DC. We have to find a mixture of the place and the theme or subject matter and put those two together.

Canada is also something. Earlier, we talked about resources. In the longer term, I would love us to do more in Canada. It is a huge market for us. The Invest NI team there is excellent. With regard to tourism and investment, there is a lot more that we could do there. Again, that is where our resources start to get a bit stretched. I think that, earlier, somebody referred to Prime Minister Carney's statement. Canada is certainly playing an important role in the reshaping of the world order. It will be interesting to see. There are opportunities there. It is mixture of taking what is thematically strong for Northern Ireland and then finding the right vehicles to deliver that. We have not really talked hugely about the arts so far in the session, but that is another big strength of ours when it comes to theatre. We are working with the Irish Arts Center in New York on a potential collaboration there as well. It is about prioritisation, place and subject.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): You can have a very small one.

Ms Murphy: Thank you, Richard. My last question will be very quick. It is just for you, Kerry, and relates to third-level education and the memoranda of understanding (MOUs) that are in place between Ulster University and Queen's and educational stakeholders in China. As you were speaking, I tried to get a number of press releases up online. I read two of them. To be honest, I came to the end of both articles and was none the wiser about what type of agreements or MOUs are actually in place between, I assume, our local universities here through DE and some of the Chinese universities.

Ms Curran: Thanks very much, Áine. That is actually a great question, because it is not straightforward and will differ greatly depending on what the potential outcome is from that relationship. Some of the MOUs that universities will have in China will be reciprocal in nature, whereby they are doing a minimal amount of exchange. Some will be more about research engagement in specific areas. Where we have a deeper relationship and we are actually accumulating greater value will be where we have joint colleges. A great example of that is the China Medical University - Queen's University Belfast Joint College — it is a very long title — China Queen’s College in Shenyang. That relationship has been very long in development. We have students in China taking university degrees that are dual degrees; one from China and one from Queen's University Belfast. They are taught in Queen's University facilities in Shenyang — they do not come to Northern Ireland at all — by Queen's University lecturers. They get their Queen's University degree. We have all the value of that relationship without adding to some of the challenges that we have in our city centres around accommodation and capacity — all those things. We have a whole range of relationships. It is important to note that, according to our figures, the Chinese students who come to Northern Ireland are worth about £50 million to our economy each year, and that does not include the Chinese students who study what is called "three-zero", which is when all their study years are in China. It is a really important relationship.

Ms Murphy: Thank you very much, Kerry.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you, Kerry. I am sorry, but, in the interest of fairness, I am going to have to move on. I think that everybody got about 13 or 14 minutes.

Mr Gaston: Can I ask a quick question, Chair?

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Very quick.

Mr Gaston: Aodhán, you talked about direction from the Ministers. Will you clarify whether that is the First Minister and deputy First Minister, or do you also take direction from the Minister for the Economy?

Mr Connolly: Our direct Ministers are the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Executive lines will have been agreed on certain issues, and, of course, the Minister for the Economy will have input to those.

Mr Gaston: It is a joined-up approach, essentially; it is not one Minister feeding in to give you direction.

Mr Connolly: My direct Ministers are the First Minister and deputy First Minister. There will be certain areas for other Departments where we monitor. As I said at the start, we are the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels rather than the Executive Office in Brussels. Therefore, we will represent the various Departments. As far as what I do and what I deliver, we are part of the Executive Office, we feed into the Executive Office business plan and our Ministers are the First Minister and deputy First Minister.

Mr Gaston: Thank you.

The Chairperson (Ms Bradshaw): Thank you all for your time and for your briefing in advance. We look forward to inviting you back to the Committee in the future.