Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): I welcome the following DAERA officials to the meeting and invite them to brief the Committee: Mr Colin Armstrong, deputy director of marine and fisheries policy and legislation; and Stephanie Bennett, head of marine licensing branch. Thank you so much.

Mr Colin Armstrong (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): Thank you very much, Chair, for the opportunity to update you on the amendments. We appreciate the time that you have already given to considering the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill and your support of the first legislative consent motion. We also appreciate your giving time today, ahead of the normal time frames that are expected, to allowing consideration of the amendments so that the motion can be moved next week. Thank you very much for your consideration.

To update the Committee on the current position, the Bill has now completed its passage through the House of Lords, so it is in the final amending stage. Subject to the amendments being agreed, it is expected that it could receive Royal Assent in the first week of February, so it really is moving quite rapidly and at pace. By way of background as to why the amendments have come at this late stage, they are a result of discussions between the UK Government and the Scottish Government on the devolution arrangements and making sure that they do not impinge on the responsibilities of Scottish Ministers in devolved areas. As a result of the agreement that was secured between Scottish Ministers and the UK Government and in order to respect the devolution arrangement for Northern Ireland, they have also been offered to Northern Ireland at the same time.

I will go a little bit into the nature of those amendments. The first legislative consent motion agreed the powers that the Secretary of State would have. At the time, those were clauses 9 and 11. Clause 11 has now become clause 14. That is what gave the Secretary of State powers to make regulations on things that affected devolved matters. Six new clauses on concurrent powers have now come in. They provide that, when the Secretary of State makes a regulation, concurrent powers are available to Scottish Ministers or DAERA to make regulations that are needed to implement any of the decisions that are made at the Conference of the Parties.

There is also a duty on the Secretary of State, when making any of those regulations, to at least consult with the Scottish Ministers or DAERA before making any such regulation. Clauses 11 and 17 set out the procedure that must be followed for any regulation that is made in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Depending on the nature of the regulations and what is in them, that ranges from the affirmative and draft affirmative procedures to the negative resolution procedure.

I turn now to the effect of the amendments. The biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction agreement is an international treaty, and, therefore, it is an excepted matter and the responsibility of the UK Government. As outlined in the first legislative consent motion, it is recognised that the treaty may affect devolved matters and that consent should therefore be obtained. Now, however, when making any of those regulations, the Secretary of State will be required to consult DAERA, and there is now the choice either to provide a consultation response to make sure that Northern Ireland's views are taken into consideration, which represents a strengthening of that requirement when developing regulations, or to decide that DAERA could make the regulations, which would be brought through and scrutinised in the Assembly. Either way, the amendments strengthen the Assembly's role in making and scrutinising any regulations to do with the agreement.

I hope that I have outlined why the amendments have come up at this late stage, the nature of them and what their effect. I hope that we can assist you in any questions that you may and help you as you consider the amendments.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Thank you very much. The timing of this is unusual, given President Trump's manoeuvres around Greenland. [Laughter.]

I am sure that that has nothing to do with this, obviously.

In all seriousness, what do you assess as being the main benefits of the changes? Obviously, they were driven by Scotland in order to respect its devolved settlement, but we have our own one here. Are there any anticipated benefits?

Mr Armstrong: For Northern Ireland, the benefits of that new amendment are very low. It is of greater interest for Scotland, which is why Scotland raised it during the initial discussions. Scotland adjoins areas beyond national jurisdiction, as its marine area goes out and adjoins the high seas. Therefore, it has far more activities and a much larger marine area. The Northern Ireland marine area is enclosed by other parts of the UK marine area and the marine area of Ireland, and it is not of the same nature. Therefore, the only implication of any decision is that if, for example, someone from one of the universities in Northern Ireland were to participate in a research project on the high seas, they would be required to comply with the law. The likelihood of using the option is very low, but it is helpful that, at least, the consultation duty has been put in place and that, regardless of what happens in the future, the framework is there to make a regulation. Its use is, therefore, expected to be very low, but the amendments give that option.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): OK. Members, are there any more questions for the officials? There are not, so thank you very much. That was a short one.

Mr Armstrong: Thank you very much.