Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): I welcome to the Committee Jane Corderoy, director of climate change legislation policy division; John Early, deputy director of climate change legislation policy division; and Ian Fleming, grade 7, head of carbon budgets and just transition commission regulations branch. Thank you so much for attending. Please feel free to brief the Committee.

Ms Jane Corderoy (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): Thank you, Chair and Committee members, for the opportunity to brief you on the draft Climate Change (Just Transition Commission) Regulations 2026.

The regulations are brought forward under section 37 of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, which requires that DAERA establishes an independent just transition commission for Northern Ireland. The Climate Change Act is very clear on the specific role and functions of the commission. It provides that the commission will have two key statutory functions that are set out in section 37. First, that the commission will undertake an oversight role to:

by all Departments. The just transition elements include the climate action plans, sectoral plans produced by Departments, the just transition fund for agriculture, and soil and biodiversity targets. Secondly, the commission will have an advisory role to provide advice to all Departments on how to ensure that their emissions reduction policies and proposals required under the Act comply with the just transition principle.

The just transition principle is set out in section 30 of the Act, as:

the 11 specified just transition objectives.

In general terms, the just transition principle aims to promote fairness during the transition from a high-emission to a low-emission economy. It is about ensuring that no one, whether workers, communities, sectors, vulnerable groups or regions, are left behind as economies decarbonise. In the interests of time, I will not detail each of the 11 just transition objectives, but they emphasise decent work opportunities, supporting affected communities and reducing inequality during the transition.

To ensure broad representation, and to assist it in performing its advisory and oversight functions, the Act mandates as a minimum that there should be representation on the commission from seven sectors. These are as follows: academia, agriculture, civic society, environmental groups, fisheries, trades unions and youth groups. Membership can be expanded beyond those.

In developing the policy proposals to establish the commission, we considered international examples of the interventions in just transition, the provision of equality and human rights here and existing statutory bodies to ensure that there was no overlap or duplication, and we considered how the commission, once established, would work with existing bodies to ensure the most effective and efficient use of resources. We also looked at the just transition commissions in Scotland and Ireland, and we are actively engaged with our counterparts there, both on the commissions themselves and also the sponsoring Departments to learn from their experiences. That engagement has proved invaluable on how the commission will work in practice and provided us with lessons that we have taken on board in the development of the draft regulations.

The Department recognises the high level of interest in just transition and, in turn, in the role of the commission in delivering it. The Act does not require a statutory consultation on the draft regulations. However, the Department considered it important to engage with stakeholders and the public on the proposed approach to establishing a commission. The 10-week public consultation sought views on the key policy proposals, including potential additional sectoral representation. A draft set of illustrative regulations was provided alongside the policy consultation.

During the consultation, there were 12 consultation engagement events with organisations and interested parties, including those sectors and groups mandated to be represented by the Act. That included the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU), the agricultural policy stakeholder group, the rural stakeholder forum, the Rural Community Network (RCN) and youth groups, including the Youth Assembly, the Children's Commissioner and the Young Farmers' Clubs of Ulster. We also met the Utility Regulator, the Northern Ireland Consumer Council, the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP), and the all-group on climate change. We engaged in public stakeholder meetings hosted by Climate NI, Queen's University Belfast and the Northern Ireland Environment Link.

It was an incredibly positive and well-engaged consultation. We received 100 responses, including 83 from organisations, with overwhelming support for the establishment of the commission and majority support for every one of the policy proposals. More than 77% of respondents also provided additional input and comments, and, as a result, the consultation produced a wealth of ideas, suggestions and recommendations. We have taken on many of those and incorporated them into the regulations; others will inform the governance documents and the recruitment process. We are also including many of them as part of the induction and handover report to the commission once its members are in post.

On 13 May, we provided the Committee with a copy of the summary of responses. Some 83% agreed with the commission being formed as an advisory non-departmental public body, and 82% agreed that membership should be between seven and 20. The consultation also sought views on three additional sectors being represented on the commission, given their sectoral emission profile and/or the key role that they would play in decarbonisation. The sectors that we sought views on were energy, transport and green finance. There was strong support for all three sectors, with 92% support for transport representation, 85% for energy representation, and 75% support for green finance. The green finance sector was seen as a key enabling sector for the work of the commission.

In addition to the three sectors, respondents also suggested other sectors for inclusion in the commission. The most highly supported of those were the built environment, including housing construction, planning and buildings. There was also a strong thread through the consultation responses, and at the events, that there should be a dedicated rural representative, distinct from and in addition to the agricultural sector mandated by the Act.

There was also recognition from some of the respondents that more than one representative may be required for some sectors due to their size and diversity. Based on that feedback, two members have been provided for in the draft regulations for the environmental sector, and, given the remit of the commission, there should be three members for the agricultural sector. We have continued to update stakeholders as the regulations have progressed through the scrutiny process, and the feedback has remained positive, which reflects the strong support demonstrated through the consultation.

As required by section 56(2) of the Climate Change Act, DAERA sought the advice of the UK Climate Change Committee (CCC). The CCC published its advice on 2 June 2025, and it welcomed the development of the draft regulations and supported the Northern Ireland Executive's establishment of a commission that could support the Government in our decarbonisation journey. The CCC's advice has been addressed through the draft regulations and the accompanying explanatory memorandum, or will be addressed through non-legislative documents, such as the terms of reference or other operating procedural documents.

The regulations have, therefore, been developed to ensure that the requirements specified in the Act are fully captured, and we have taken on board the feedback received through the public consultation, engagement with colleagues in Scotland and Ireland, and the views of the Climate Change Committee.

Whilst ensuring through the regulations that the commission has the requisite powers and membership to function effectively and deliver its statutory duties across all Departments, we have also sought, given the public finance constraints, to keep costs low in areas where that is possible. Alongside the regulations, you have been provided with the regulatory impact assessment, which details and assesses the costs and benefits of the commission.

To support the work of the commission, DAERA has also secured funding for a small secretariat team, who will support the commission in carrying out its functions and in engaging with Departments and the public. Although the commission will provide a service to all Departments, DAERA will supply the necessary core funding required to maintain the commission's functions.

In addition to the regulatory impact assessment (RIA), we have also completed equality screening, a children's rights impact assessment, and a rural needs impact assessment. Each of those assessments found no adverse impact and showed an overall positive impact.

The draft regulations provide that the commission will be an independent advisory non-departmental public body (NDPB). They bring the recommended sectoral representation on the commission to 16 members, covering 12 sectors, and they include provision for a non-sectoral chairperson. The maximum number of members is restricted to 20 to ensure that decision-making is not unnecessarily hindered, which was something that the CCC raised in its advice.

There is provision for the commission to have the power to establish ad hoc working groups or committees, should the commission require additional specific knowledge or expertise. In the consultation, that proposed provision was supported by 95% of consultees. Such committees, which we expect to be time-bound and focused on specific tasks, would report to the commission, which would maintain overall control of the advice that they provide. In addition, the commission will have the power to request information from public bodies to enable it to fulfil its duties.

To ensure that the work of the commission is transparent and accessible, there is a requirement for any oversight report produced by the commission to be laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly. The commission's annual reports on its own performance will also be laid before the Assembly.

The regulations include standard provisions for tenure, remuneration, procedure and conflicts of interest. It is envisaged that the commission will engage and collaborate with other bodies, such as the Office for Environmental Protection and the UK Climate Change Committee.

The next step is to lay the draft regulations before the Assembly for their debate and approval under the draft affirmative procedure. Subject to the Assembly's agreement, once the regulations are in place, a recruitment exercise to appoint a chair and members to the commission will commence in accordance with the code of practice issued by the Commissioner for Public Appointments for Northern Ireland (CPANI).

The delivery of the regulations will be a step forward in meeting our statutory requirements under the Climate Change Act 2022. The commission will play a key advisory and oversight role across Departments, which will help to ensure that what we do to reduce emissions and how we do so is fair and inclusive and does not leave anyone behind.

Thank you very much for asking us to be with you today. We are happy to take any questions.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Thank you very much. I appreciate that; it was in-depth. I will get the ball rolling. How will the Department ensure that perspectives from the sectors that have been highlighted are included in shaping the just transition? I refer to groups from the political economy and the well-being economy and to educational development, advocacy and faith groups.

I am aware of the EU's shift to a much more region-specific attitude towards a just transition. If it is fair to say that the body be empowered to look at a just transition in that way rather than from the collective point of view?

Ms Corderoy: Those incredibly interesting concepts of well-being and doughnut economics were in the consultation response, and I expect that the commission will be interested in them. We cannot prescribe that in the regulations, but we know that the South's just transition commission was at Queen's recently to hear about the well-being economy, and we expect our commission to be equally interested in it. We would probably facilitate the commission in that by including it in our induction.

The commission will be an independent body, so I will not be able to tell it how to engage. I know, however, on the basis of what is happening in Scotland and Ireland, that engagement is a really big part of what their commissions have been doing and that place-based and regional approaches are also a big part of it. The secretariat team that we have put in place will assist the commission to go out to meet people — to listen and engage — as part of a communication plan.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): We have all these bodies, some that exist and some that may be set up, such as the OEP and the environmental protection agency (EPA), and we are now also looking at a just transition body. What is your assessment of its highest-level priorities? Is the priority of that body to complement the others in their work on environmental, decarbonisation and emissions pressures, or is it to act as a barometer of fairness and to ensure that Northern Ireland's unique position is better reflected?

An example of that uniqueness is, unfortunately, its reliance on fossil fuels for energy and its lack of work to decarbonise that sector; we see geopolitics playing out in fuel costs. Do you see the body as a protective barrier to ensure fairness of approach, or is its purpose further to facilitate the net zero and other climate ambitions?

Ms Corderoy: Sorry; that is a big question.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Yeah. You are making me sound like Ron Burgundy. [Laughter.]

Ms Corderoy: The statutory remit of the commission, which has advisory and oversight roles, is specifically focused on the climate action plan, the sectoral plans, the soil and biodiversity targets and the just transition fund for agriculture.

We looked, therefore, at the landscape of what exists already. When creating a new body, it is important that there is no overlap or duplication, so that it has a distinct focus that none of the other bodies have. We would expect it to work closely with those other bodies, and we envisage there being a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the Office for Environmental Protection, the Climate Change Committee and the just transition commission, like that which the OEP currently has with the Climate Change Committee.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): May I jump in there? That raises an issue. We have had the OEP before the Committee previously. The OEP has a fixed agenda. The witnesses at our evidence session were open and were very nice about this, but they told us that the OEP's agenda is the environment. We take in rural prosperity, well-being, jobs — the sectors that Northern Ireland relies on — but the witnesses from OEP were adamant that its single priority is environmental improvement and that it is up to government and politicians to find the solutions. I am trying to fashion out whether the just transition commission will be more flexible than that, and whether it will allow for a regional approach to Northern Ireland-specific issues and pressures, particularly given the fact that the make-up of Northern Ireland is very rural.

Ms Corderoy: Absolutely. That is its purpose. It will be focused on fairness. From the consultation and from the CCC, it came out that the commission's priority will, above everything else, be a just transition. The feedback from the consultation around rural communities was exactly on the point about how reliant people, especially those west of the Bann, are on oil and about the specific challenges in Northern Ireland. It will be very Northern Ireland focused, but it will also probably be focused on regions within Northern Ireland. We received a lot of responses from councils about there being different challenges in different council areas. I see there being a good connection between councils and the commission when looking at specific regional issues.

Mr Ian Fleming (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): That will come when we get to recruitment. When we go through the appointment process, we will want people to have a good understanding of just transition, the impacts for Northern Ireland and how they differ from those in the rest of the UK. That will be ironed out when it comes to the appointment process and we get the right people appointed.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): It is early to suggest this, but I can see there being potential for agencies to butt against one another. For example, the CCC and the OEP will lean in on the obligations and priorities for a just transition. Are such instances foreseen with the just transition commission? Where would it act in the space of the Northern Ireland-specific conundrum of meeting the targets while meeting the wider priorities that we have for prosperity, job creation and protecting our elderly and disabled communities in rural areas, who need and are entitled to services?

Ms Corderoy: It will work with Departments. Departments will come up with the policies. As Departments, we look at equality, human rights, rural needs impact assessments, the rights of the child and all the other section 75 groups when we are developing policy anyway. Where the just transition commission will come in is in looking at overall fairness and advising Departments. We see the commission having a unique role, because it will include broad sectoral representation and have a balance of voices across all the sectors, including the youth group voice, which is important. We have found that Departments have really welcomed the idea of having a commission as an independent advisory body, outside of them, that will offer them advice and give them insights into different sectors and groups.

It is worth saying that the OEP is a regulatory body with specific regulatory powers. The commission will not be a regulatory body.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): It is an advisory body. Yes.

Ms Corderoy: It will be an advisory body. You may find that, as an advisory body, the just transition commission will refer things to the OEP, or vice versa. Does anybody want to add to that?

Mr John Early (Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs): As Jane mentioned, an MOU is in place between the OEP and the Climate Change Committee. That is very much for cooperation and to prevent duplication of effort between them. That model that has worked well so far, so we would see it expanding to make sure that there is a communication chain between them and the commission. The secretariat team in DAERA would help us to facilitate those introductions. When the commission is established and its members are appointed, there will be different levels of awareness among the commission members from day 1, so there will be an initial training exercise that will include everything from section 75 training to general awareness training in order to facilitate them to perform their functions.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): Thank you very much.

Mr McAleer: Will the just transition fund for agriculture be over and above the schemes that the Minister has announced, such as the sustainable agriculture fund?

Mr Early: I will pick up on that one for you. For the sake of transparency, I should say that the regulations that are coming forward for the just transition fund sit with a different team. We can relay any information that we have, but that work does not sit with us. There was an allocation of £12·3 million in capital funding to the just transition fund in the current financial year, to support schemes such as the sustainable utilisation of slurry, bovine genetic improvements and farming for carbon. Funding of £36 million has been allocated as part of the draft Budget for that fund. Our colleagues who work in that area are developing those regulations. I understand that those officials plan to brief the Committee soon on the development of that fund over the next couple of months. They are probably in a much better position to provide you with further detail on that.

Mr McAleer: Is the commission time-bound?

Mr Early: Our commission? No.

Mr McAleer: The just transition commission.

Mr Early: No. The appointments will be time-bound. They will be made in line with the Commissioner for Public Appointments for NI guidance, and the appointees will serve terms. They can serve a three-year term or a five year term. We envisage that the position of chair will have a five-year term, while members will serve for three years with an option for extension. In line with the public appointments process, appointees can serve a second term, up to a maximum of 10 years.

Mr Wilson: I am keen to walk through what is a live issue at the moment, which is what, you imagine, the commission might do or facilitate. A consultation on wood-burning stoves and solid-fuel burning, which, I suppose, is being done in a bid to reduce air pollution, is due to close shortly. What is the commission's remit in that process? As it reads, the consultation sets out stricter emission limits for new stoves and introduces tougher smoke-emission standards, mandatory labelling for stoves and fuels and increased enforcement penalties. The consultation proposes a number of measures that would obviously have economic impacts, were they to be implemented, on manufacturers and retailers. They would also have an impact on rural dwellers, who rely on that form of heating. They might have a system in place that is linked to their heating system. If the changes were retrospective, there would be expense related to ripping out a system and installing a new one. There would be significant ramifications as a result of that. That is a real, live example. What do you see the transition, in real terms, looking like? How will that play out?

Ms Corderoy: It is important to say that, while the just transition commission will have a role, the just transition requirements are placed on Departments, which will have to adhere to the just transition principle and its objectives. You will know that the warm homes scheme mentioned the just transition recently, because it is thinking about that as well.

Departments will have a role, as will the just transition commission. The commission may gather evidence and may make recommendations to our Department or any Department that brings forward a policy. Its various members may make representations based on the expertise that they bring to the commission. The climate action plan and subsequent climate action plans will look at those policies through a just transition lens. It is worth saying that the rural issues that you mentioned would be captured in a rural needs impact assessment and an equality impact assessment, but the commission would look at the overall fairness of it.

Mr Wilson: Let us say that that plays out and there are recommendations. In a situation where the commission says, "Here is our view", do you envisage that the Assembly would seriously consider what the commission said and would be foolish to ignore it?

Ms Corderoy: It is a soft power. The commission will bring its expertise on just transition, and Departments will be required to look at what they are doing in response to what the just transition commission has said.

Mr Wilson: Whilst that consultation is ongoing, do you see the commission doing its own work, separate from that? In this place, consultations are not the hottest ticket in town, given that you are dealing with Citizen Space and those types of platforms. They are not inviting to the public, and there are occasions when eight people respond and a change is made as a result of that. That is not particularly helpful or useful. Do you see the just transition commission having weight to go out of its own accord, seek views and formulate its own opinions, or are those very much grabbed from the available net that has been cast out?

Ms Corderoy: It is a wee bit difficult to say, because it will be an independent body, and it is about how it will envisage doing those things. However, in Scotland and Ireland, they have done so and have done a lot of engagement and consultation. They have also brought in experts to brief them on issues. In Scotland, they have looked at what they are doing with oil production, and they are also looking at transport. In the South, given their emissions profile, they are looking at transport and agriculture. What you outlined is how I envisage it operating, but it will be an independent body, and it is about how it will want to tackle things. Once commission members are in post, they will have quite a lot to look at, such as the first climate action plan and the sectoral plans.

Mr Early: The other point is that the advice that the commission produces will be laid in the Assembly and will be publicly available. In situations where officials are bringing those policy proposals to a Committee such as this, you will have access to the commission's views and advice and will be able to scrutinise that and ask officials, "How have you taken account of this advice? What amendments have you made? How have you adjusted it?". There will be transparency around the process to make sure that the commission's advice is being taken into account and that, as officials, we can demonstrate how that has been carried through into the policy.

Ms Finnegan: My question has been answered, so you are off the hook. Thank you very much. I appreciate your briefing today.

Mr Blair: Some of the ground that I would have asked questions on has been covered, but I will ask a different question in the hope that we might hear some good news. I hope that no one takes it the wrong way when I make this observation: our Thursday morning Committee meetings are not always exactly overbrimming with positivity, and officials could be forgiven for not feeling the love. However, surely there is a positive story in this. Is it not the case, as demonstrated by the consultation and the wider engagement, that sectors — plural — including the agri-food sector were very keen to get the commission up and running and to be involved and may have asked for additional spaces so that they can be represented and fully engaged?

Ms Corderoy: Absolutely. It was one of the most positive consultations that I have been involved in. Just transition has been mentioned at every event and stakeholder engagement that we have done on climate. It is really important. Fundamentally, fairness really chimes with people. The Department has considered research that says that, even if they are paying a wee bit more, people are happy with emissions reduction policies as long as they know that they are fair and are being applied fairly. That really resonates with people. We did a separate consultation that was nothing to do with just transition, and one sixth of the responses said, "We are really keen to see the just transition commission set up". It is really positive across every sector, including the voluntary and community sector. Gender organisations and disability organisations responded, and the Older People's Commissioner responded. We said that 87% of people are in favour, but, of the 100 responses, only two are not in favour. It is really positive. People want to see the commission set up and working effectively. We are trying to give the commission as much information as possible so that it hits the ground running, because it has to be effective quite quickly.

Mr Blair: I will come back on that briefly. Apologies; I have to leave soon. I made that comment about positivity deliberately, because I have sensed positivity amongst the sectors about this.

Crucial in progressing policy, making change and lessening dependency on fossil fuels, for an abundance of reasons — cost, environmental issues, energy security and others — is this: how well will the Departments work together on this? Questions on, for example, skills around new green technologies for heating our homes will be the responsibility of the Department for the Economy, so how will all of that feed into the transition, and how will Departments interact with other Departments, beyond DAERA, that have responsibilities?

Ms Corderoy: It is worth saying that the Departments work together well on this. As, I am sure, you are aware, there is a strategic oversight group that has membership at grade 3 level from all Departments and is chaired by our permanent secretary. There is a sectoral departmental leads group underneath that, at my level, that has representatives from every Department. We meet at least monthly. We have really good communication. When we get to the public appointments process, we will also involve the Departments in the skills that the commission will need. Somebody in energy will add more insight into what is important for energy, and it is the same with agriculture colleagues and transport colleagues.

The secretariat are officials in my team, so they know how the Civil Service works and how to engage with Departments. That will be really supportive for the independent commission as well, in how it interacts with Departments.

Mr Blair: On a variety of issues.

Mr T Buchanan: You talked about having a 14-member commission with no more than 20 members on it. Can any assurance be given that there will be members from the agricultural sector on the commission?

Ms Corderoy: Absolutely. The legislation prescribes that there will be three agricultural representatives on the commission.

Mr T Buchanan: OK. It also talks about the commission having powers to set up ad hoc working groups. Would all the members of such groups come from within the 14- or 20-member commission, or would you bring somebody from outside into an ad hoc group?

Ms Corderoy: That was strongly supported in the consultation. People said that, sometimes, the commission might look at a particular issue for which they might need other expertise or knowledge. Therefore, it can set up short-term working groups and bring in other people. Some commission members will be required to be on that consultation or working group so that they can feed back to the commission. The commission will still have the authority and decision-making role on the advice that it provides, but that provision means that it can get expertise on particular issues if it needs to.

Mr Early: That is fair. If you are, say, one of the three representatives of the agricultural sector on the commission and are given a series of documents to be reviewed, and you say, "OK, we need to get additional advice and expertise", having an ad hoc working group will allow the commission to bring in additional representation from the wider sector. The commission member will sit on the ad hoc group as the representative. They will consult with that wider group and bring the view from that wider representation back to the main commission, which will obviously ratify the advice that comes back to the Department. It all funnels back through the single route.

Mr T Buchanan: Will the ad hoc working group operate on a voluntary basis, or will it add further cost to the commission's running costs?

Mr Fleming: The regulations allow for payment, if that is appropriate. Again, we will want to get value for money. We looked at the Scottish Commission. Some members sit on that on a full-time basis but do not take payment because it is like an extension of their main job. Ad hoc working groups would work on a similar basis. We hope that some people will give advice because it is the right thing for the sector and is part of their role, job and main activity. However, there is a power to pay, if payment is needed.

Ms Corderoy: The commission can also call experts to give expert advice. One of the things that came from our engagement with the Consumer Council was that consumers should be central to making the transition fair. The Consumer Council can therefore give advice to the commission and/or other expertise as it requires.

The Chairperson (Mr Butler): OK. Thank you very much.