Official Report: Minutes of Evidence
Committee for Finance, meeting on Wednesday, 9 September 2026
Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr Matthew O'Toole (Chairperson)
Ms Diane Forsythe (Deputy Chairperson)
Dr Steve Aiken OBE
Mr Gerry Carroll
Miss Deirdre Hargey
Mr Harry Harvey
Mr Brian Kingston
Miss Áine Murphy
Mr Eóin Tennyson
Inquiry into the Performance and Culture of the Northern Ireland Civil Service: Committee Deliberations
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson (Mr O'Toole): There is no particular follow-up action, although we may take action to ask former figures about engagement, pending the outcome of other engagement — that is fair, I think, based on what we discussed — within reason and without detaining ourselves too much.
The Committee Clerk: Talks about talks, Chair, perhaps.
The Chairperson (Mr O'Toole): Yes, indeed. They are all the rage again at this time of the year.
The Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman (NIPSO) has indicated her willingness to provide evidence to the Committee's inquiry. That will be on 4 November, if members are content.
On page 466 of the pack, there is a response to a question for written answer from the Deputy Chair to the Finance Minister concerning the length of time that it takes to fill vacancies in the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS). Do you want to come in on that, Diane?
Mr Kingston: It did not particularly answer the question, but anyway.
The Chairperson (Mr O'Toole): Sometimes, those are the best responses, in the sense that they reveal something even if they do not give the answer.
On page 468, there is a response from the secretary general of the Department of the Taoiseach. A briefing note has been provided. Links are embedded providing supplementary information. That is quite high-level, to say the least, but it is there.
On page 38, there is a response from the Welsh Government's permanent secretary that sets out the Welsh Government's governance arrangements, the role of the permanent secretary and accounting officer and reflections on organisational development and future direction. It is worth our looking at that. It is perhaps understandable that other Governments will not comment directly on internal governance matters here, but we can make a contrast and draw conclusions.
The Committee Clerk: Every jurisdiction is slightly ahead on its people and culture strategy. Those strategies will be publicly reported on, so a lot more of that kind of data and evidence will probably come forward. We can keep monitoring that. Hopefully, there will be something useful.
Dr Aiken: Chair, I will just say that I thought that the information that came through was valuable, even though it is classified. What came from the Welsh Government was very interesting, particularly the difference in the number of civil servants employed — 6,500 for a budget of £27 billion, compared with 24,000 for a budget of £19 billion in Northern Ireland. There are differences across the piece, but that is a marked difference in delivery. It is also interesting, when they talk about their digital transformation process, that they are doing it in two languages at the same time and seem to be delivering. I wanted to put those points on the record.
The Committee Clerk: They, too, had visited Estonia.