Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I welcome Dan Cartland, head of the tourism partnership at the Department, and Damien Doherty, chief inspector at the Trading Standards Service (TSS), which is also at the Department. Thank you for your work on this important matter. I hand over to you.

Mr Dan Cartland (Department for the Economy): Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. The Sporting Events Bill is a UK Government Bill that is being progressed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS). The Department for the Economy is leading on this matter because of the potential economic benefits that major sporting events can bring. They include increased visitor numbers, tourism spend, business opportunities and international profile. In simple terms, the Bill is intended to make the UK, including Northern Ireland, a more attractive and competitive place to host major sporting events. It does that by creating a legislative framework that Governments can use when bidding for such events. We consider that to be a positive step.

Major event organisers, such as FIFA, UEFA and others, invite countries to bid for major events. They require Governments to provide assurances on a range of matters including ticket arrangements, trading controls, advertising rules and protection of commercial rights. Having a framework in place makes it easier to demonstrate that the UK is ready to host these events and therefore makes us a more attractive potential host. The Bill includes provisions covering a number of such areas as ticket touting, advertising, trading, unauthorised association, enforcement and financial assistance. A key point is that the Bill is just a framework. It provides powers that can be activated through secondary legislation for specific events where required. That means that Northern Ireland will still have a choice about whether and how the framework is used for specific events. It should reduce the need for Governments to repeatedly negotiate and prepare extensive legislation commitments every time a major event is considered.

As specific provisions within the Bill fall to a range of Departments, we have worked closely with colleagues across the Northern Ireland Departments to consider the implications for devolved areas. The Executive have agreed in principle to the principles outlined in the Bill, and officials continue to engage with DCMS on specific detailed technical amendments. We have engaged with stakeholders, including local councils, tourism representative bodies and the Royal and Ancient Golf Club (R&A). Feedback has been generally supportive of a permanent framework, highlighting the need for clear responsibilities and early engagement.

In conclusion, the Bill will help Northern Ireland remain competitive when the opportunities arise, whilst reducing unnecessary administrative burdens and providing greater clarity for future bids. My colleague Damien from Trading Standards Service and I are happy to take questions

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Thank you very much, Dan. I know that it is difficult to speak on behalf of the Executive, but I think you said that they have agreed in principle to the principles of the Bill. Have the Executive, the Minister or the Department flagged any issues that they may have, or are the issues more around the overlapping devolved competencies? When you have covered that point, you can tell us whether the local councils and event organisers that you have engaged with have flagged any concerns.

Mr Cartland: The first paper that went to the Executive sought to place the Bill and was more a memorandum than anything else. It was acknowledged that further amendments could have been made since it was put forward in May. That is why it was agreed in principle. A lot of it is fairly technical and not particularly exciting. That allowed officials across Departments a little more time to engage and get clarity.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): What about engagement with event organisers? You mentioned the R&A. That brings me neatly on to my point. The R&A Open is not a UK-wide event; it is a Northern Ireland-specific event. Can the Northern Ireland Executive trigger the framework for a Northern Ireland-specific event? If it can, does that power rest with the Minister for the Economy or the Northern Ireland Executive?

Mr Cartland: I would need to get clarity on that but, yes, if Northern Ireland itself was hosting a major event, Northern Ireland would trigger the secondary legislation that brings it into play.

You also asked about the stakeholders that we have spoken to. The councils that we have gone out to are generally happy with it. We have gone to them because they would have a lot of the enforcement powers that come with it. Four or five of the councils have come back to us. Generally, they have said that major events support economic growth. They want to be kept informed as and when things happen.

Regarding the R&A, an amendment has been proposed. Originally, it was proposed that the Bill would be for international events that were bid for as such. Recently, an amendment was proposed to include major national events such as the Open.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): I am trying to think of major UK-wide events that are taking place in other parts of the United Kingdom. The 2035 FIFA Women's World Cup is the biggest example that I can think of. Could Westminster, having the lead Department on that, trigger the secondary legislation, meaning that the provisions would automatically apply to the whole of the UK and the host countries, or would they have to seek the approval of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which are going to be host countries?

Mr Cartland: This is just the framework.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Yes.

Mr Cartland: This is being done on a UK-wide basis.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): Yes.

Mr Cartland: We imagine that it will first be tested with the Euros, which means that we will be watching that event with interest to see how it makes its way through and how the secondary legislation is enacted. Hopefully, we will then see the benefits of it.

Mr Delargy: Thanks for your presentation. I have a couple of questions of clarification, following on from Phillip's question. In Derry, we have quite a few all-Ireland events. Will you give me some clarity on exactly how the Bill will work for those events? Does there need to be consent from just the Executive? How does that work with regard to linking with the Government in Dublin?

Mr Cartland: The Bill is a UK Bill. Were there to be an all-Ireland event, the Northern Ireland Government could put in place secondary legislation, but that would cover only the operations that happen in Northern Ireland.

Mr Delargy: Thanks for that. If there are events that are all-Ireland events, does there have to be secondary legislation? I am not clear on that.

Mr Cartland: For any specific event, we have a choice as to whether we wish to enact secondary legislation. This is a framework, and it only really gains power once secondary legislation is put in place in relation to a specific event. If we felt that there was a specific event and there would be a benefit in enacting the legislation to make it more attractive, then we would enact it, but that would cover Northern Ireland because it would be done within the UK legislative framework. If we were to find ourselves in that situation and there was an all-Ireland bid, one would imagine that there would be conversations with the Dublin Government to see what kind of legislative framework they already have in place. The experience of the Euros coming up will help us at a practical level to see how that develops.

Mr Delargy: What engagement has there been thus far with the Government in the South on this?

Mr Cartland: We have not had any engagement with the South on this thus far, but we can take that forward.

Mr Delargy: OK. Just to be clear, you would need to have engagement with the Government in the South if all-Ireland events were to be held in the North?

Mr Cartland: Yes. With any all-Ireland event, be it to do with the bidding for it or the hosting of it, we would, obviously, engage with our counterparts in the South at both an administrative and practical level on delivery and preparation.

Mr Delargy: Can you keep the Committee updated on when those engagements will happen? For areas such as my own, those sorts of events are the most significant, so we would like to be kept updated.

Ms Forsythe: Thank you both for coming today. We had a meeting last week with representatives from Hospitality Ulster and UKHospitality, and they talked a lot about the golf tourism piece. I am keen to highlight and see action on that in Northern Ireland. There are a couple of really good golf courses in my South Down constituency at Royal County Down and Warrenpoint . What would the interaction be here? Do you see that as part of your wider role, leading to some sort of strategy or actionable golf tourism opportunities for Northern Ireland?

Mr Cartland: Golf is a key driver for tourism here, particularly with the strong economic impact that it has, not only when we are hosting major golf tournaments but also as a driver for visitors from overseas, particularly from the US, who will come, stay a long time and spend good money that then gets into local economies across Northern Ireland. The golf market is very important, and Tourism NI does a lot of work to maintain that market. It works with Tourism Ireland to attract international visitors. Our engagement with the R&A as part of our stakeholder engagement here has been productive, and it sees the Bill as positive, particularly now that it has been amended to include national events, because the Open falls into that category.

Ms Forsythe: That is great. It is a huge opportunity. Thanks very much.

Mr Honeyford: It is scandalous that we do not have the Euros, but how are we learning from that? Will there be any learning from it when there is not going to be anything here?

Mr Cartland: The learning that we will get from the Euros will be in relation to how the particular legislative framework works. We work closely with DCMS, the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government and the Dublin Government, who are part-hosting the Euros. We imagine that that will be the first point at which this legislation is tested. We are not hosting the Euros, but we have really strong relationships with the officials who are already involved in the tournament. They have committed to speaking to us so that we can learn how the legislation comes into play.

Mr Honeyford: OK. The Bill's explanatory and financial memorandum says that there has been no engagement with Northern Ireland-based organisers. Why is that?

Mr Cartland: FIFA is the largest of the major event organisers that has a competition coming up. DCMS has engaged with FIFA on that. At the moment, of the organisers that are hosting events that are solely in Northern Ireland, the R&A is the main one that would be doing an event of that scale that would fall within the scope of the legislation.

Mr Honeyford: OK. The Cricket World Cup will take place in 2030 and will be hosted by England, Wales, the South and us. How does the legislation function in that case? It is a massive event, and it will have the second-biggest TV audience in the world. It is coming to Belfast, but it is also taking place in Dublin, England and Wales. How does this —.

Mr Cartland: We can take forward conversations with Cricket Ireland.

Mr Honeyford: You have done or you will?

Mr Cartland: We have not as yet, but we will take that forward.

Mr Honeyford: I get really frustrated because nobody has thought any of this through for here. This is an update with no update. It is just, "Here is what you are getting, and we will have a conversation sometime down the line". The events are coming. The one I mentioned is happening in 2030, but when I give it as an example of something that is happening across these islands, the answer is, "We are going to have a conversation". Why is everything done retrospectively rather than up front?

Mr Cartland: I take your point. That event has been awarded, and the purpose of this legislation is to attract future events, but we will take that on board.

Mr Honeyford: OK, thank you.

The Chairperson (Mr Brett): There are no further questions at this stage. The Department rightly recognises the opportunities for Northern Ireland as a model for economic growth. I welcome the fact that you have started the engagement process with local councils and providers. As David rightly articulates, I encourage you to do a bit of horizon scanning and maybe a bit of work in the Department on other events that we may want to attract. As David rightly said, the Cricket World Cup is the second most watched sporting event in the world. Getting the Women's World Cup is big for Northern Ireland, but we want that to be the start and not the end of our ambitions. Thank you for all your work on this.