Official Report: Monday 07 October 2024
The Assembly met at 12:00 pm (Mr Speaker in the Chair).
Members observed two minutes' silence.
Mr Speaker: Just one moment, Mr Buckley. I want to make some brief remarks at the start of business. There are requests from five parties today in relation to statements made by the First Minister over the past week. There is clearly a demand in the House to hear from the First Minister. Before I go on to deal with the procedural issues, let us all acknowledge that there are victims involved. We should remember that.
Members will be aware that I have selected a question for urgent oral answer, which I am satisfied is within the remit of the Executive Office's responsibilities and which is broad enough to give the Assembly the opportunity to ask questions of the Executive Office. I will ensure that other Members who tabled questions for urgent oral answer are called to ask a supplementary question. Therefore, the Assembly will have the opportunity to hear from the Executive Office. I will also ensure that the Minister has the opportunity to give her perspective. I know that Members may have other questions, but I suggest that the question for urgent oral answer is the time to ask them.
Mr Buckley: I wish to raise a point of order under Standing Order 65, following last week's disturbing developments regarding child safeguarding and the former Sinn Féin press officer Mr Michael McMonagle. We have been made aware of his continued access to this very Building. Every answer that has been given so far raises further questions. In the interests of full transparency, will the Speaker confirm when Sinn Féin notified the Assembly and terminated Mr McMonagle's Stormont access pass? Has the Assembly's safeguarding policy been compromised as a result of Sinn Féin's not notifying the Assembly? Further to that point of order, will the Assembly confirm which Sinn Féin MLAs employed Mr McMonagle, and whether they include the First Minister, Michelle O'Neill?
Mr Speaker: I will deal with this one first. There are a number of aspects to the issues being raised. I am conscious that matters within the responsibility of the Assembly Commission are not, in fact, points of order.
I will say, however, that I understand the issues that Members are raising. The situation that has arisen is concerning. We had a number of discussions with the Clerk/Chief Executive last week, and officials have been active in looking at issues that have arisen to do with the Assembly Commission's processes and procedures. Members and parties ultimately have responsibility for the staff whom they employ, however. I take this opportunity to remind all Members of the importance of complying with those responsibilities, including responsibilities on the issuing and returning of staff passes to the Building and the sharing of information with the Assembly Commission when such serious situations arise.
A number of questions for written answer have been submitted to the Assembly Commission, and if Members have any other issues to raise about Assembly Commission issues, that is the route to go down.
Mr Gaston: Thank you, Mr Speaker. During last Wednesday's meeting of the Executive Committee, the First Minister launched a grotesquely offensive attack on my character. The attack, shamefully but not surprisingly, went unchallenged by the Chair, Ms Bradshaw, who afforded me just one minute and nine seconds to speak during an hour-long evidence session.
Back to the matter in hand, however. On Wednesday, the First Minister addressed me and said:
"I would be really interested in this conversation if you actually cared about the feelings of any woman".
If that remark had been made outside the House, my solicitor would have already been in touch with Mrs O'Neill. Is it in order, Mr Speaker, for a Minister to launch such an outrageous and groundless attack on the reputation of a Member while protected by the privilege afforded to her when appearing before a Committee of the House?
Furthermore, will you require the First Minister to appear before the Assembly to apologise publicly and withdraw her scurrilous accusation? Finally, is it in order for the Chair of a Committee actively to shield witnesses from proper scrutiny in Committee?
Mr Speaker: There are a number of issues there. I thank the Member for giving me prior notice of his intention to raise a point of order. He has placed his remarks on the record, but he is aware that I do not have a role to play in the business of individual Committees and therefore cannot rule on the proceedings there.
Whether in a Committee or in the Chamber, the Chair has a number of different factors to manage, and, for my part, I will direct the Member, and, indeed, all Members, to remarks that I made in the Chair on 8 April 2024. I spoke then about the balance of operating within the confines of our standards of debate by demonstrating courtesy, good temper, moderation and respect, while also recognising that Members have a legal right to freedom of expression that sometimes means that a Member chooses to express views in terms with which others may disagree.
I may vehemently disagree with many of the views expressed in the Chamber, but I will fight for the right of each Member to express those views, provided that they are within the confines that I have outlined. The House is responsible for holding Ministers to account —
Some Members: Hear, hear.
Mr Speaker: — be it in the Chamber or in Committee. The House does that on behalf of the people who elect Members to the House.
Every Member should have the opportunity to be heard, within reason and proportionately. That is something on which we should all reflect, whether we are in this Chair or in other Chairs.
If the Member has particular issues about standards in a Committee, he can refer those matters to the Commissioner for Standards, who has the authority to deal with them, as opposed to me as Speaker.
Mr Gildernew: I draw attention to and praise St Ciaran's College in Ballygawley for its role in campaigning for the A5 road upgrade. The school originally launched a campaign to try to improve safety measures on the road. Tragically, 48 hours later, one of its students, Kamile Vaicikonyte, who took part in that safety campaign, lost her young life on the A5, along with her boyfriend, who was travelling with her.
The school subsequently continued its campaign in the face of that adversity and, in recent weeks, attended here, in the Senate Chamber, with the Minister for Infrastructure and directly asked him to do all he could to bring forward plans for a road that would be fit for purpose, running right through counties Tyrone and Derry and into Monaghan and Donegal.
I was very honoured to meet with schoolteacher leaders, and also young student leaders, Ciaran and Dearbhla and Lucy, who asked one of the questions directly of the Minister here last week. I thought it very poignant that, last week, when John O'Dowd visited the school, which is in my constituency, he referenced its campaign and that he had uppermost in his mind young Kamile and the impact that the situation was having on people along the length of that road. I commend the school for its civic awareness and the students for their role in that campaign.
Mrs Dodds: I rise to speak about recent developments in Health in Northern Ireland. Last week, the Minister published his thoughts on how hospitals should be restructured. Unfortunately, those amounted to little more than a series of high-level principles, with little detail on how that programme would be rolled out. I accept that the Minister said that this would be followed up, but we are now in a 16-week consultation period, and that means that there will be considerable time spent on that rather than getting on with the business of reform.
There is absolutely no doubt that our health service needs significant reform, and I welcome Professor Bengoa to Northern Ireland this week and look forward to what he has to say in relation to that. However, to demonstrate that really significant need for reform, I will look at two or three of the issues that have arisen as part of my constituency work in the past number of weeks.
Recently, the Department of Health published its cancer waiting statistics. Those are indeed really serious and should cause serious thought for everybody in the House. According to the Department, the proportion of cancer patients waiting this quarter to start treatment within 31 days was just over 90%; the target is 98%. Some 35·8% of patients started treatment within 62 days of an urgent referral from their GP; the target is 95%. That is not something that anyone should be proud of. October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Only 30·7% of patients urgently referred for breast cancer treatment were seen by a specialist within 14 days: the target is 100%. Two thirds of women who find a lump in their breast are not being seen within the required time.
Money is deeply precious for the capital programme for Health. We have had a debacle around the maternity hospital. On 1 August, I wrote to the Health Minister —
Mrs Dodds: — and received a reply, and that shows a significant —
Mr Mathison: I rise to raise the issue of placements for children with special educational needs. I have received information in response to a question that I submitted to the Education Minister last week. It states that children with special educational needs have all been allocated a place in school, but currently 139 children are unable to access that place because capital works are ongoing to make the building ready to receive those pupils.
This situation would not be accepted as normal for a pupil applying to a school through mainstream admissions: to be awarded a place but to be told that the physical space — the classroom, effectively — is simply not ready to accommodate you.
Why is that still the experience for so many children and young people with special educational needs? For me, it speaks to a two-tier education system: one for mainstream pupils, where the system for allocating places is largely predictable, largely consistent and planned, and one for children with special educational needs that is managed consistently on one level but is on a crisis footing, characterised by an apparent failure of planning, and is entirely unpredictable year-on-year for the children and families involved. No one operating in the system claims that that is acceptable. The Minister is clear on that, the Education Authority (EA) is clear on that and the schools waiting for works to be completed want nothing more than to open their doors and provide education that meets the needs of those children.
Many EA staff have worked incredibly hard to manage another year of crisis management in SEN places. In some cases, they have been asked to turn around capital projects in a ridiculously short time. However, this is no way to run our education system for children with special educational needs. The end-to-end review of education is now well progressed, and it has been looking at the system-level change required to address the issues. We urgently need to move to a new phase with the presentation of a clear action plan to tackle the systemic issues. Placements are only one strand of work, but it is essential that we do not see a repeat of the situation in any future years. The action plan, tackling every aspect of SEN reform, cannot come quickly enough, and the Minister needs to ensure that it is delivered as a priority action in the weeks ahead. It must set out a clear plan, it must be time-bound and it must have clear measures of success. Anything less will be another failure to meet the needs of SEN learners in Northern Ireland.
Mr Chambers: Participation in any form of sport makes a major contribution to the mental and physical health of those taking part. It is open to all, and the opportunity to take part in organised sport is available at every level of ability and skill. For those who choose to just follow and support their game of choice, it can provide something to look forward to during the working week. The outcome of the game can deliver joy and satisfaction, if the result is favourable, or give you the opportunity to dissect where your team went wrong and look forward to the next game with the hope that your idea of winning tactics will be deployed by the team coach. Northern Ireland has produced sportsmen and sportswomen from every generation who have excelled on the world stage. It is a fact that we have always punched well above our weight in all sports.
My sport of choice has always been football. Local senior football has made great strides in recent years, and the enhanced coaching and development of young players has launched many of them into full-time careers at high levels across the United Kingdom and beyond. My biggest disappointment has been the failure to deliver a national training centre of excellence that could be used by men and women footballers from international to junior grassroots levels. The bricks and mortar of a permanent football centre of excellence would provide a valuable and positive legacy for the game. I call on the Minister for Communities to kick-start the distribution, at the very least and at the earliest opportunity, of the funding that was previously on the record. More promises will just not cut it.
Mr O'Toole: I want to reflect on the past year. On October 7 2023, Hamas launched an attack in Israel. It was a violent attack that has to be consistently condemned. It was unjustified and unjustifiable. I acknowledge and affirm the profound effect that it had on people living in Israel. They were shocking, shocking acts of violence, and innocent lives were taken. It is, however, impossible to speak of that day in isolation from the year that has followed. The year that has followed has been one of almost limitless violence visited on, first, the people of Gaza by the state of Israel and, subsequently, other neighbours of Israel. We in this place have come to understand that the Old Testament quality of an eye for an eye simply leads to a cycle of never-ending, limitless and ever more depraved violence.
I want to reflect on the innocent lives lost, first, on 7 October, and on the tens of thousands of innocent people, including tens of thousands of children, in Gaza and now Lebanon who are being bombed in their homes. They have no defence and no ability to know what is about to happen to them. There is no justification for the scale of violence wrought by Israel over the past year. I want to be clear in saying that 7 October was a disgraceful, grotesque act of violence visited on people. People around the world are rightly memorialising that day, and I do not in any way want to take away from that. However, it would be impossible to reflect on that day without saying that the memory of those people and, indeed, the broader cause of stability, peace and justice in the Middle East have not been served by the limitless violence that has been visited by Israel on that region since. It must be said that the states that have continued to arm and facilitate that action have, I am afraid, created long-term problems in that region and more globally that we will deal with for generations. There are babies alive now who will be dealing with the trauma — possibly with physical injuries and trauma — at the end of this century.
Not only do we need a ceasefire, we need a process to create a just, lasting settlement for the Palestinian people and, yes, security for Israelis. We cannot have what we have had over the past year. It has been the most indescribable year —
Miss Brogan: I welcome the news that the A5 road upgrade has been approved by the Executive, following Infrastructure Minister John O'Dowd's proposals to proceed with the project. Work on the A5 is due to commence early next year. As you can imagine, that is incredibly positive news for the people of West Tyrone, who have been waiting for far too long to have that dangerous road upgraded. I have received many messages and spoken to local people, who are delighted and relieved that the road upgrade has been approved.
I thank Minister John O'Dowd and his departmental officials for their hard work and commitment in ensuring that the A5 has progressed to this stage. I also pay tribute to the families, friends and communities who have lost loved ones along the A5. Over 55 people have lost their lives on that road since 2006. Those deaths have left families and whole communities devastated. It led many to campaign to have the A5 road upgraded, and I thank them for their determination and strength after having suffered such horrifying and unimaginable loss. I also thank Tyrone GAA for its Enough is Enough campaign and, in particular, for its efforts at the public inquiry to highlight just how dangerous the A5 road is and how the people of Tyrone want to see it upgraded.
I welcome the news that the A5 upgrade will commence early next year and thank all those involved in getting to this stage.
Mr K Buchanan: Representing a largely rural constituency, I make no apology for highlighting the need to ensure that adequate funding is available to community groups and organisations from a rural background. To help to improve our rural communities, it is important to ensure that they are thriving, sustainable and inclusive places to live. Many community groups working in the rural setting provide a vital service, and it is imperative that there is the necessary funding to allow development and capacity-building training.
We also need to ensure that our rural community and voluntary organisations can deliver capital refurbishment works to rural halls to allow them to continue their vital work. Rural halls can sometimes be underutilised, but, with the necessary funding, groups and organisations can bring their halls up to a better standard, thereby allowing other agencies to work with them to deliver a better service for all in the rural community. The work with many of those halls can go unnoticed, but, in many instances, they help to tackle social issues, such as poverty and social isolation, and deliver mental health and well-being support for people of all ages and from differing backgrounds.
Last week, the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs gave a commitment to open a further tranche of their rural micro capital grant scheme. I encourage the Department to open a further rural hall refurbishment scheme, like the one that provided support and capital enhancement for 113 facilities across Northern Ireland. It is important and essential that we continue to breathe new life into rural communities across Northern Ireland. I hope that the Minister will follow on with continual support for those rural facilities.
Mr Blair: My statement addresses recent and recurring flooding in Antrim town, particularly in the Riverside and Massereene Street areas. It has affected residents considerably. Those Antrim town streets, which are very historic in character, are on the banks of the Sixmilewater river. Homes have been submerged, cherished belongings destroyed and stress has literally been brought home by the threat of the flooding happening again. That stress is compounded as we enter another autumn and winter, with storms and heavy rain much more likely. It is also compounded by the fact that we seem no nearer to a prioritised flood alleviation plan for the area, yet development in the area continues, impacting on water levels in the Sixmilewater river. Residents' resilience is commendable, but we cannot rely solely on individual strength in the face of such adversity.
I have written to the Minister for Infrastructure and am grateful for his timely replies. Like residents, however, I remain frustrated at being told that this area of "potential significant flood risk" has not yet been prioritised or placed on a list of planned capital works. I understand that the Department would assess existing mitigations, if there were any, and will also use criteria and identify, if it can, economically viable schemes. I certainly understand the current budgetary pressures, but all that must be weighed against the actual impact on and risk to people and their property and the cost of clear-ups, which have had to happen many times, including as recently as November 2023.
On one occasion, homes suffered having over four feet of water come in during one flooding episode. That is why flood alleviation must be an absolute priority. Some of us do not set out to generally object to new development or to deter those seeking to move to, move within or invest in our constituencies, but, without preparation, planning, investment in infrastructure and future-proofing, we may have reached breaking point.
I assured local residents that I would raise the matter in the House. I will continue my correspondence with the Minister and the relevant agencies and seek solutions, which the residents whom I mentioned deserve. I urge the Minister for Infrastructure to prioritise the urgent needs of those in Antrim town, especially the residents of Riverside and Massereene Street. We need immediate action and long-term solutions to prevent future flooding and to protect our community.
Mr Sheehan: Ba mhaith liom aird a tharraingt ar Lá Domhanda na Múinteoirí a bhí ann ag deireadh na seachtaine. Imríonn ár múinteoirí ról thar a bheith tábhachtach i saol ár bpáistí agus an aosa óig, mar sin, ní mór dúinn, mar ionadaithe poiblí, bheith ag éisteacht leo agus ár ndícheall a dhéanamh bheith ag tacú leo trí chomhoibriú ar mhaithe lenár gcóras oideachais.
D’éirigh le múinteoirí ardú pá a fháil in 2022, agus ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an Dr Caoimhe Archibald as ardú pá a sholáthar dóibh mar cheann de na chéad bhearta a rinne sí ina ról nua mar Aire Airgeadais.
Le blianta anuas tá ciorruithe á ndéanamh ar earnáil an oideachais ag rialtas na Breataine mar chuid de pholasaí déine na dTóraithe. Cuireann na ciorruithe sin barraíocht brú ar mhúinteoirí agus ar an chóras oideachais. Tá deis ag Páirtí an Lucht Oibre sa Ríocht Aontaithe na ciorruithe sin a cheartú agus infheistíocht cheart a dhéanamh inár seirbhísí poiblí nuair a fhoilseoidh siad a mBuiséad ag deireadh na míosa ionas gur féidir linn oideachas ardchaighdeáin a sholáthar dár ndaltaí.
Ar Lá Domhanda na Múinteoirí, tá sé tábhachtach ár mbuíochas a ghabháil agus aitheantas a thabhairt as an obair ríthábhachtach agus as an méid a chuireann ár múinteoirí lenár sochaí agus an tionchar dearfach atá acu ar ár bpaistí agus ar ár ndaoine.
[Translation: I want to draw attention to World Teachers’ Day, which occurred at the weekend. Our teachers play a vital role in the lives of our children and young people. Therefore, we, as public representatives, must listen to them and support them through our cooperation for the good of our education system.
Teachers achieved a pay rise in 2022, and I thank Dr Caoimhe Archibald for bringing in that rise as one of her first acts as our new Finance Minister.
In recent years, the British Government have made cuts to our education sector as part of the Tories’ policy of austerity. Those cuts place enormous pressure on our schools and school leaders. The Labour Administration have an opportunity to reverse those cuts and invest properly in our public services when they publish their Budget at the end of the month so that we can deliver high-level education for our pupils.
On this World Teachers’ Day, it is important to appreciate and recognise the vital work and contribution that our teachers make to our society as well as the positive impact that they have on our children and young people.]
Mr Frew: I rise today to remember the events of that terrible day, 7 October, in the state of Israel against the Israeli people. It was a day that changed the world for every single Israeli citizen and every single Palestinian. My heart goes out to those people today. That Hamas attack on innocent civilians of the state of Israel has no comparison with anything that that group did in the past.
It changed the mindset of the Israeli state to where we are now.
We can all talk in stats. We can all talk about historical events. Today, however, I want to remember one of the 97 hostages who remain captive and are still missing: a young lady called Emily Damari, who was 27 when she was captured. She was removed from her kibbutz. I have not met Emily, but I have prayed for her consistently because I have met her mum. That was one of the most impactful things that I have ever experienced. How does Emily's mum feel? I met her six months into Emily's captivity; it has now been a year. They have heard nothing about Emily. They do not know whether she is alive or dead. The intelligence reports from six months ago maintained that she was alive, but I do not know whether those reports say the same thing today.
Emily's family spoke at the commemoration services at the Nova music festival today. It is absolutely heartbreaking to hear the pain that that family and all families caught up in that atrocity and the subsequent conflict bear to this day. My heart and my prayers go out to everyone caught up in those activities.
Dr Aiken: Today marks the first anniversary of the horrific and barbaric terrorist attack on Israel. The horror of that extreme example of racist and sectarian hate goes well beyond the statistics of 1,191 murdered, over 4,834 injured and 218 taken hostage. The violent attacks against the old, women, children and men were accompanied by the wide use of rape, torture, beheading and burning people alive: examples of grotesque violence that, regrettably, have been the mark of terror in this age, especially elsewhere across the Middle East and the surrounding region, in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Sudan.
What adds specifically to that horror and immeasurably to its impact on the people of Israel and our Jewish friends and colleagues is the blatantly antisemitic commentary from far too many politicians, academics, media commentators and so-called activists; commentary that blames the victims. It did not even take a day before that perverse antisemitic gloating, caricature and glorification of crimes against humanity became the normal discourse. It pains me, as it should all right-minded people across this island, that our small and vulnerable Jewish community should become the centre of so many of those ingrained antisemitic tropes.
It is almost as though, to those racist commentators, no matter what sort of racist apologists they are, the lives of women, children, men, members of the LGBT community, the disabled and even a young 12-year-old autistic girl and avid Harry Potter fan, Noya Dan, did not count, just because they were Jewish, and, again, murder, torture, kidnapping and depraved sexual violence somehow do not count because the victims are Jewish. The word "othering", that horrible all-island trait of discounting and dehumanising the lives of those we do not agree with, making them some sort of Untermenschen, applies far too strongly here, especially if it has anything to do with Israel.
It is far too easy for some to rapidly fall into blaming-Israel-for-everything mode, as if that somehow excuses antisemitic race hate. It does not. If there is a lesson we could and should learn, it is that racism and sectarianism, whatever its form, is toxic. Maybe, at least in the Assembly, hopefully, and across wider society on this island, we will. Those so-called commentators should stop and reflect on the additional horror that they have inflicted on our Jewish community by their espousal of antisemitism.
There is no space for antisemitism in the Assembly or anywhere else.
Ms K Armstrong: Today is the United Nation's World Habitat Day. There will be various activities around the world organised to examine the problems of rapid urbanisation and its impact on the environment and human poverty.
In Northern Ireland, we still do not have a housing supply strategy, and, as reported by the Simon Community in June of this year, we have as many as 80,000 people who cannot access a place to call home. In Northern Ireland, we are not building enough social homes to meet the demand. The proportion of the Budget allocated for new housebuilding is simply not enough. Without a formal housing supply strategy that includes clear funding commitments in the Budget, the Assembly will continue to fail society by leaving thousands of people without a place to call home.
I call on the Minister for Communities to bring forward his housing supply strategy as soon as possible and to stop the delays. We want to make sure that the next Budget is influenced by the housing supply strategy.
A housing supply strategy must provide a clear pathway to achieve our climate change targets by removing oil as Northern Ireland's main home heating method, and that is in line with the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors World Built Environment Forum. The strategy must set out clear cross-departmental actions to ensure that new homes are built to passive-house-type standards, and have a plan to improve existing homes through a national programme of sustainable transition, including an area-based approach that provides incentives for private owners and housing associations to bring their houses up to the energy performance certificate rating A standard and away from fossil fuels.
Determined actions to deal with Northern Ireland's housing crisis will bring the opportunity to improve the desperate housing stress that up to 80,000 people face every day. Actions to deal with Northern Ireland's housing crisis have the opportunity to enable the introduction of energy efficient improvements that will help us meet our climate change targets and make life better for everyone.
As a counterbalance, if we are committed to our environment, our environmental heritage should be protected and building more homes should not come at the expense of our natural environment. To this end, I ask the Minister for Communities to work with the Ministers of Finance and Infrastructure to develop planning regulations that ensure that any disturbance to the natural environment is minimised, and the Minister ensures that the historic environment division of DFC invests in native seed conservation, such as that carried out by True Harvest Seeds in Kilclief, to safeguard native species going forward.
Mr Speaker: I call Stephen Dunne. You have two minutes.
Mr Dunne: I rise to express my sincere condolences and pay tribute to Gina Murray, who sadly passed away on Thursday after a period of illness. Gina's daughter, Leanne, was cruelly murdered by the IRA in a cowardly bomb attack on the Shankill Road in 1993 when she was aged just 13. She was an innocent young girl whose life was callously taken from her as it was just beginning.
Although losing Leanne broke Gina's heart, it did not break her spirit. She showed immense courage and was a positive influence for good on everyone she met. Gina Murray bravely stood up for justice and truth throughout her life. Gina was an incredible lady who was compassionate, kind, resilient, gracious, caring and always interested in others.
Gina was also instrumental in her work through the Kilcooley Women's Centre in Bangor, where she was a tireless campaigner for the victims of violence and a champion for local women through the many educational and empowerment programmes and much more that she was involved with over the years. She was always an encouraging influence on everyone she met and always had a happy smile on her face. Gina also dedicated many years of her life to working with local scout and cub groups. She quickly became a greatly loved leader of many children, particularly in the Kilcooley and Clandeboye areas, over the years and, indeed, generations.
I take the opportunity to pay tribute to Gina and express our thoughts, prayers and condolences to Gary and the wider Murray family.
That Mr Colin Crawford replace Mr Robbie Butler as a member of the Committee for Education; that Ms Diana Armstrong replace Mr Colin Crawford as a member of the Committee for the Economy; that Mr Andy Allen replace Mr Robbie Butler as a member of the Business Committee; and that Mr John Stewart be appointed as a member of the Business Committee. — [Mr Butler.]
Mr Speaker: As with similar motions, the motion will be treated as a business motion, and there will be no debate. I remind Members that, in accordance with Standing Order 79(3), the motion requires cross-community support.
Resolved (with cross-community support):
That, in accordance with Standing Order 79(4), Mr Andy Allen be appointed to fill a vacancy on the Assembly Commission. — [Mr Butler.]
Mr Speaker: Members should take their ease before we move on to the statement by the Minister for Communities.
(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)
Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): I have received notice that the Minister for Communities wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that they must be concise in asking their questions. This is not an opportunity for debate, and long introductions, believe me, will not be allowed.
Mr Lyons (The Minister for Communities): With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, and in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following report on the British-Irish Council (BIC) housing work sector ministerial meeting on 20 September. Aisling Reilly MLA, junior Minister in the Executive Office, also represented the Executive at the meeting. The report has been endorsed by us both, and she has agreed that I make the statement on our behalf.
The British-Irish Council, established in 1999, is a forum for its members to discuss, consult and use best endeavours to reach agreement on cooperation on matters of mutual interest within the competence of its member Administrations. The British-Irish Council housing work sector is led by the Executive. The group has proved to be a constructive forum for facilitating thematic evidence exchange and practical collaboration. The meeting on 20 September focused on the housing work sector's programme of work carried out since 2021 as well as the forward work plan that will cover the period from now until 2026. I chaired the meeting in my role as Minister responsible for housing, and, as I said, the Executive were also represented by junior Minister Reilly. The Government of Ireland were represented by Mr Alan Dillon TD; the Scottish Government by Mr Paul McLennan; the Welsh Government by Jayne Bryant; the Isle of Man Government by Tim Crookall; the Government of Jersey by Sam Mézec; the Government of Guernsey by Deputy Lindsay de Sausmarez; and the UK Government by Baroness Taylor of Stevenage.
Ministers considered and reflected on the papers that were presented at the ministerial meeting, which included a discussion of the challenges and opportunities of improving housing supply. Much of that reflects the work that I am taking forward in the delivery of a new housing supply strategy that will provide a framework to address the challenges here. Ministers also noted and agreed the content of the forward work plan for the housing work sector, which identified the work sector's areas of focus for the next three years. The areas of focus for the sector that were agreed by Ministers are residential net zero and retrofit; the private rental sector; affordable housing models; attracting private sector investment for housing; and homelessness and temporary accommodation.
All member Administrations have demanding targets for achieving net zero and preparing for a switch away from carbon-based fuel sources that are used to heat homes and water. While there are challenges with new builds, there are particular challenges with retrofitting old buildings that were not built for such technologies. The housing work sector will include consideration of more energy-efficient building techniques, new heating technologies, changing resident behaviour and ensuring a just transition.
Different approaches have been taken across the islands to ensure that the private rental sector delivers high-quality, secure and affordable homes for tenants. Members will be aware that we are undergoing a process of reform here, as are most other BIC Administrations. We can learn from what is being done elsewhere.
Housing costs form the largest part of most household budgets, and ensuring that costs remain affordable is key to avoiding an increase in poverty. Private rents and house prices continue to rise, and, as a result, there is considerable pressure right across the housing system but in particular on social housing. All Administrations continue to innovate to introduce new models of intermediate housing, and much of that work has been informed by the conversations that have taken place in the BIC's housing work sector. Given the pressures on the conventional sources of investment that are traditionally used for affordable housing, Administrations have sought out more innovative forms of subsidies, such as loans, loan guarantees, long-term private capital loans and developer contributions. Indeed, some Administrations have been very innovative in that area, and others are keen to examine what more they can do in that space.
All Administrations are managing the increased use of homelessness services and temporary accommodation. That is partly due to pressures found across the housing market. There is also the increasing complexity of people presenting with mental health and addiction issues who require much support. Collectively, we can continue to learn from various approaches across these islands.
Finally, I thank all my ministerial colleagues who participated so productively in the meeting. It has been agreed that the next ministerial meeting for the housing work sector will take place in 2026.
Mr Durkan: I thank the Minister for his statement. Has there been any indication from the UK Government that the Budget will include increased funding for housing? What discussions has the Minister had with his Executive colleagues to determine whether, should additional money come here through a Barnett consequential arising from such an announcement, it will be ring-fenced for housing?
Mr Lyons: No, that was not mentioned at the meeting, and I do not think that it will be the case that we will receive additional funding for housing. I have, however, made the case to Executive colleagues on the importance of housing. I secured a commitment in the draft Programme for Government that housing is a stand-alone item, and I expect that to be reflected when budgetary conversations take place. I have been able to secure additional funding this year for the social housing development programme, and I hope that I will be successful in securing more.
Mr Lyons: Over the past number of years, we have seen various changes to the law across the UK and Ireland and in other Administrations on that issue. As the Chair will be aware, I am taking forward some of the issues that were included in the Private Tenancies Act (Northern Ireland) 2022. We have made good progress on some of them already, albeit more is to be done. The private rented sector is an area of concern, and the meeting was another good opportunity for us to share the learning that exists in different Administrations.
Mr Kingston: I thank the Minister for his statement. Does he agree that the introduction of rent controls would have a detrimental impact on the housing market and on housing supply?
Mr Lyons: Yes, that is an issue that was raised at the meeting. We had a conversation about the approaches that are taken in different areas. The powers in the Private Tenancies Act have lapsed, but, in any case, the independent research commissioned by the Department clearly outlined the potential negative impacts of rent controls. In particular, the research report highlighted the point that a large proportion of landlords may exit the private rental market and that would result in a greater shortage of available private rented properties in an already stretched market. The research report concluded that the best way for us to relieve pressure on affordability for renters is by increasing the housing supply and ensuring that the benefits system properly takes account of the cost of housing.
Ms K Armstrong: Given the number of people without a home to call their own, what did the Minister learn from the actions being taken forward in other regions that will be included in his housing strategy?
Mr Lyons: As the Member will be aware, the housing strategy has been under development for some time. I like to think that a lot of the issues that have been talked about in the British-Irish Council housing work sector are already part of or will form part of the housing supply strategy. I heard what the Member said just a few moments ago, and I recognise the importance of ensuring that we move that forward at pace. Nevertheless, I believe that many of the actions that we can take in terms of housing supply have already been taken.
It is worthwhile outlining some of the things that the Department has been able to do since the return of devolution. We have moved forward with the intermediate rent product. We have provided more financial transactions capital for move-on accommodation. We have increased the property value limit for co-ownership. We have continued to provide the Supporting People programme with additional funding. We have secured additional funding for the social development housing programme. I have worked with housing authorities to make sure that we can identify void properties in order for us to take the pressure off homelessness. We have got housing as a stand-alone item in the Programme for Government, and we are bringing forward the housing supply strategy and progressing the issues in the Private Tenancies Act. We are making progress on a lot of issues. The housing supply strategy will ensure that we have collective agreement from other parties so that we can take a whole-Executive approach to dealing with the issues that the Member has raised.
Mr Allen: Energy efficiency measures to lift households out of fuel poverty are vital. Did the Minister have any conversations with BIC colleagues about energy efficiency measures, and did he take away any learning from them?
Mr Lyons: Absolutely. As I said, one of the items in our forward work programme relates to residential net zero and retrofit. In my opinion, given the very challenging climate targets that we have, one of the best things that we can do is invest in energy efficiency measures. We need to make it cheaper for people to heat their home. That is why it is so important that this work sector goes forward with that focus on making sure that we invest so that people can save on their energy bills.
Ms Ferguson: I thank the Minister for his statement. What conversations were had with respect to the importance of projects such as Complex Lives and services such as the dispersed intensely managed emergency (DIME) accommodation projects in relation to homelessness and addressing the huge issue in relation to temporary accommodation?
Mr Lyons: The Member is right to highlight those issues. The issue of homelessness was part of our conversations, as was the importance of investing to prevent homelessness in the first place. That is certainly what I want to do. I want to make sure that we have the funding available to have temporary accommodation where it is needed. More importantly, however, we need to invest earlier and in those challenging cases as well. We need to do everything that we can to make sure that people have a safe, secure and affordable home.
Mrs Erskine: I thank the Minister for his statement. He will be aware that one of the key challenges here in providing affordable and social housing is the difficulties in our planning system and our waste water treatment capacity. Areas at capacity include the likes of Enniskillen in my constituency, and there is an ever-growing housing need there. What discussions is the Minister undertaking to solve those matters so that the Department can push forward on any housing strategy?
Mr Lyons: It is a key part of the housing strategy to make sure not just that we have the land and the ability to build on it with the infrastructure but that the planning is as quick and efficient as possible. To that end, in preparing the final draft of the housing supply strategy for the Executive, I have requested meetings with a number of ministerial colleagues. A couple of those colleagues have yet to take up the invitation to meet me, but I hope that that will be forthcoming. I have met the Infrastructure Minister and have raised with him the importance of ensuring that the issues are sorted out. The easiest way to deal with the housing crisis that we face is to make sure that we have the ability to build more homes. If planning is holding that up or if we do not have the waste water connections, that will be difficult, especially in those areas of high demand. That will form part of the housing supply strategy, but, most importantly, we need to make sure that we have an action plan in place from that strategy that means that we see real delivery on those issues for towns such as Enniskillen and others.
Mrs Guy: I thank the Minister for the statement. I want to ask him about the ongoing work on the reform of private tenancies. Can he confirm when he will bring forward the regulations in the Private Tenancies Act?
Mr Lyons: There are a number of regulations to be brought forward, and some already have been. The Member will be aware of the work that has already taken place on, for example, smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and electrical safety checks. Other issues have still to be progressed, but those commitments have been made in legislation, and we will take them forward as soon as is practicable.
Miss Hargey: Was the issue of letting agents discussed? When will you be able to share the commissioned report by the Chartered Institute of Housing on letting agents and practices of charging?
Mr Lyons: I do not remember that being discussed. I will check and come back to the Member. I cannot remember that specifically being addressed during the conversations that we had, which makes me think that it was not. I am certainly happy to provide further information on that and potential dates for the publication of the report that she referred to.
Mr Bradley: I thank the Minister for his statement and his answers. Minister, you have outlined some of the issues around the housing crisis, but will you give an update on the progress of your housing supply strategy?
Mr Lyons: We are nearing the point — I hope very soon — at which I will be able to take it to the Executive. I had hoped to meet two more Executive colleagues on issues that are pertinent to their Departments. I have not heard back from them yet. Regardless, it is important that we press on with the strategy. It will provide a long-term, cross-departmental framework for the actions that are required to increase supply and address the main barriers to supply here. We need to move that forward as quickly as possible, and I hope to do that in the very short term.
Mr McHugh: Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.
[Translation: I thank the Minister for his statement.]
Minister, how does the Department plan to ensure that our vital homelessness services are protected, given the present budget constraints?
Mr Lyons: Of course, there is a statutory duty on us to provide the services that the Member refers to. I would like to see much less money being spent on temporary accommodation and much more being spent on prevention because that will give us the best benefit in the longer term. That may be better for budgets, but, more importantly, it will be much better for the individuals who are most affected by homelessness.
We are in a difficult position with our temporary accommodation needs, and the Member will be aware of that. That was reflected in other jurisdictions in the BIC, and there was conversation on that. If we want to deal with the issue, more than anything else we need to make sure that there is an increased supply of housing across Northern Ireland. That is why I intend to bring forward the housing supply strategy as soon as possible.
Mr Carroll: I remind the Minister that rent controls have worked in many countries in Europe and across the world.
Minister, what conversations took place between you and your counterparts on empty properties? There are 20,000 empty properties in the North and 166,000 in the South. Taking action on those empty homes could get rid of homelessness in one fell swoop, so what discussions took place on that?
Mr Lyons: First, I am happy to hear from the Member whether he has any independent research that he has commissioned on rent controls that shows something different from the independent research that my Department has commissioned on the subject. I look forward to seeing that from him.
The Member is right to raise the issue of empty properties. That has been a concern of mine from before I came into this post. I have engaged in conversations with the Housing Executive and housing associations to make sure that we do everything that we can about void properties in Northern Ireland. However, the Member will be aware, because we have discussed this, of the number of properties that lie empty for the long term and the number of properties that do not seem to have anyone maintaining or looking after them.
I want to see those issues addressed as well, because, as we are all aware, it is very, very expensive to build new homes in Northern Ireland. We should make the most use that we can of the buildings and homes that we already have.
Ms Mulholland: The 6·4% increase in Supporting People funding in this Budget is obviously very welcome. The community and voluntary sector plays a huge role in supporting people who are living with homelessness, but it is under increasing pressure, with some providers working on monthly budgets. What can the Minister do to support the community and voluntary sector, particularly around the homelessness agenda, in the work that he wants to bring forward?
Mr Lyons: The Member will have already seen my commitment to that through, as she rightly mentioned, the increase in funding that I have provided this year for not only the Supporting People programme but the voluntary and community sector. I want to ensure that we protect those budgets and the organisations that do such good work, including, importantly, preventative work. If we were starting from scratch, we would ensure that we spend far more on the preventative measures than we currently do. I have shown my commitment to ensure that we deal with the issue, and I look forward to our making more progress on that. That is certainly my intention. I want to see that delivered.
Mr O'Toole: Minister, I think that I am right in saying that all, or virtually all, of the other Administrations that attended that meeting have implemented or are moving to implement a ban on no-fault evictions. My understanding is that you do not want to do that here. Why should Northern Ireland be an outlier when all our neighbours have taken or are taking that important step?
Mr Lyons: First, I am committed to progressing the provisions of the Private Tenancies Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, because that is what was passed by the House. Also, of course, it is not always like for like. Scotland has the ban that the Member mentioned, but with a very different framework in some cases. There are so many exemptions to it that, essentially, no-fault evictions still exist. As I said previously, I am open to conversations with colleagues on that. I absolutely want to ensure that we protect tenants. That is why we are driving forward the reforms that we see. I am always happy to review the legislation to ensure that it is fit for purpose.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): Thank you, Minister. That concludes questions on the statement. Members may take their ease while we change the top Table.
(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Blair] in the Chair)
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Speaker has received notice from the Minister for Infrastructure that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that questions must be concise. Long introductions will not be allowed.
[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker]
for the opportunity to address the Assembly. I wish to make the following statement about the Executive's flagship A5 western corridor dual carriageway project, following the Executive's agreement last week to my decision to proceed.
The A5 western corridor dual carriageway scheme was recognised as a flagship project by the Executive in 2015 and has been a long-standing commitment of the Executive and the British and Irish Governments. The whole scheme is approximately 85 kilometres in length, extending from Newbuildings to south of Aughnacloy where the existing A5 joins with the N2 at the border. It will provide a continuous new dual carriageway, generally parallel with the existing A5 corridor, with a number of junctions that will facilitate access to the various towns, villages and hamlets along the route of the corridor that are currently served by the existing A5, as well as links to other strategic routes.
The proposed new A5 dual carriageway project is, first and foremost, about saving lives. Sadly, we are all familiar with the news reports about the 57 fatalities that occurred on the road between April 2006 and April 2024, and hundreds more injuries have been suffered that have not grabbed the headlines. Lives, families and communities have been devastated so frequently by the loss of a friend or loved one. I have met grieving families and witnessed their heartache at first hand, so I was pleased that, following the agreement of my Executive colleagues last week, I was able to announce my decision to proceed with the construction of the first stretch of the A5 upgrade, which is between Strabane and Ballygawley. That is in line with the Planning Appeals Commission's (PAC) recommendation that it is in the wider public interest that that section proceed. The stretch covers almost two thirds of the project — 55 kilometres, or 34 miles, of 85 kilometres, or approximately 53 miles. My intention is to make a formal decision on the remaining sections at the earliest opportunity.
The experience of the adjoining A4 dualling scheme tells us that we can be confident that improved safety profiles will be delivered on the new A5 dualling scheme. A key objective of the scheme, therefore, has always been to improve road safety, but it is also about improving journey times and reliability in order to meet the needs of a modern society. The new dual carriageway is also of significant strategic importance to the north-west region and our wider island, helping to tackle regional imbalance, improving the economy, job prospects and prosperity, and connecting communities.
In its opening remarks to the public inquiry of April 2023, the Planning Appeals Commission commented that it wanted to bring to an end the long saga of the A5 scheme. In making my decision, I also want to bring an end to that uncertainty insofar as it is in my power to do so. My decision is to proceed with approximately 55 kilometres of new dual carriageway from a junction just south of Strabane, which will be known as junction 8, to the proposed junction close to Ballygawley, which will be known as junction 15, including a short westward extension of the existing A4 dual carriageway to join to the new road. That amounts to nearly two thirds of the scheme's full length. My decision is in line with recommendation 30 of the PAC's final advisory report from the 2020 and 2023 public inquiries. The recommendation is that, subject to certain conditions, my Department should proceed with that part of the scheme.
I reassure Members that I remain fully committed to progressing the entirety of the scheme and to taking a statutory decision on whether to proceed with the remaining parts, which go from Newbuildings to south of Strabane and from Ballygawley to the border south of Aughnacloy, at the earliest opportunity. My Department continues to work to progress those remaining parts.
The 2023 PAC report raised a number of issues with the length of road between Newbuildings and Strabane, the main one being the potential for increased flood risk in the River Foyle basin. Work is ongoing to consider and address the PAC's recommendations on that. As part of that work, my officials have initiated and are progressing extensive engagement with the Irish Government's Department of Transport, Donegal County Council and the Office of Public Works (OPW). That work is ongoing, with the aim of developing a common position on how to mitigate the flood risks. I am confident that the issue, which the PAC raised, can be resolved in due course, and I do not see a reason to delay progress on other parts of the scheme.
I remain committed to delivering the length of dual carriageway from Ballygawley to the border. Recently, at the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) transport sectoral meeting on 27 June, the NSMC agreed:
"the A5 dualling and cross-border linked road projects including the N2 Clontibret to Border Road Scheme"
"to the development of the region, improving road safety and stimulating economic growth."
The NSMC agreed that both Administrations should continue to work collaboratively, and it agreed to establish a new cross-border working group to reinforce that collaboration:
"specifically in the continued development of the N2 Clontibret to Border ... and ... the A5, from Ballygawley to the border"
"including the proposal for a seamless cross-border link road ... to ensure successful outcomes through the planning processes."
In making my decision, I considered the PAC's final advisory report from the public inquiries that were held in 2016, 2020 and 2023; all representations that were made, including landowners' concerns; all advice that was received from public authorities; all environmental information; the results of transboundary consultations; policy considerations; and all information and materials relating to the scheme. I did so, having also eliminated the risks of adverse effects on the scheme on special areas of conservation and special protection areas, following appropriate assessments of those risks.
My Department concurs with the PAC's conclusions that that part of the scheme will bring large benefits for road safety, journey times and economic competitiveness and significant benefits for the balancing of regional infrastructure provision. My Department also concurs with the PAC that, for that part of the A5 western transport corridor, the substantial benefits offered by the proposed offline dual carriageway outweigh the adverse environmental impacts and justify any interferences with the human rights of individuals who may be affected by the scheme.
Regard has been given to the environmental statement of 2016, the environmental statement amendment of 2019 and the environmental statement amendment of 2022; all other advice and environmental information; the updated August 2024 reports to inform an appropriate assessment; the consultation responses on those assessments; and the advice and recommendations from the public bodies. As such, the likely significant effects of the proposed scheme have been assessed, and the information presented is sufficient to inform the judgements on the decision to proceed with that part of the scheme. The appropriate assessments, which have been undertaken, are reflected in reports. Those will be published in the public notice. In light of the content of the reports, it is considered that the construction and operation of that part of the scheme will not by itself or in combination with other plans or projects adversely affect the integrity of special areas of conservation, special protection areas and Ramsar sites in view of their conservation objectives.
In deciding to proceed with part of the scheme at this time, my Department has set out in detail in the now published departmental statement the consideration that was given to the PAC's recommendations. My decision to proceed is also subject to my Department's commitment to carrying out mitigation measures and other works and conditions summarised in the Department's statement that are relevant to that part of the scheme. Further information on my decision, the departmental statement, the PAC report in October 2023 and associated documents are available for viewing via my Department's website.
In line with my decision to proceed, I have instructed my officials to make the necessary direction orders, the vesting orders and the stopping up of private accesses orders relevant to that part of the scheme. My decision on those orders will be subject to my Department's commitment to carry out the mitigations and other works referred to in the departmental statement. In accordance with the normal procedure, I have invited the Infrastructure Committee to consider the direction order and stopping up order papers at its meeting this coming Wednesday. Subject to its consideration, I hope to formalise my decision through a notice in the local press in the following week, which is the week commencing 14 October. That will also bring the above orders into effect, and the lands will then formally come into my Department's ownership around mid-November. As part of that process, all landowners whose land is to be vested will receive correspondence from my Department that sets out the vesting process and the opportunities that we will provide for them to have any further queries that they may have answered.
The completion of vesting will allow contractors to complete the environmental surveys and archaeological and geotechnical investigations to inform their detailed design. Additional enabling works, such as site clearance and fencing in advance of the main construction contracts, could commence early next year. The current programme for construction of the length of the new road from south of Strabane through to the south of Omagh, including a bypass at Omagh, indicates that work on that stretch will commence by the middle of next year, while work on the length of road south of Omagh and Ballygawley will commence in early 2026. Total construction is estimated to take place over five years.
I reassure everyone that I remain fully committed to delivering the entire 85 kilometres of the A5 scheme. My reason for starting with the Strabane to Ballygawley section is to ensure that that key length of the project is not delayed, particularly because it has had the most fatalities. I very much hope that everyone can now get behind that much-needed and long-awaited scheme in the interests of the greater good of our communities and future generations.
Mr Durkan: I welcome the statement and commend the Minister and his officials on their commitment to getting to this stage. It has been a long road and an extremely painful one for those who have lost loved ones on the A5 along the way, and I commend all those who have played a positive role in campaigning for change. The Minister has outlined well the rationale for his approach and the phasing of the project, but could he provide an estimated date of completion for the entire A5 scheme?
Mr O'Dowd: I thank the Member for his comments, particularly in relation to the work that my officials have carried out on the scheme, which, at times, has been intense and, at other times, has been well above and beyond the call of duty.
I cannot give the Member an estimated time for the completion of the entire scheme now. The work that we are preparing to carry out on the phase that I have announced will take around five years from commencement, with a full phase of construction starting mid-next year and preparatory works and advance schemes starting early next year. I will most likely have to go through preparations for the other parts of the scheme similar to those that I have done for this one. The Newbuildings to Strabane and Ballygawley to Aughnacloy sections may require a public inquiry. All those procedures will have to be followed and will dictate the time before a final decision is made.
Mrs Erskine (The Chairperson of the Committee for Infrastructure): I thank the Minister for his statement on this flagship Executive project. I also thank him for taking the time this morning to brief me, as Chair of the Infrastructure Committee. That was much appreciated.
The Minister has helpfully set out the next steps, and, as stated, those will be considered by the Committee. I am sure that we will play our part in examining the enabling orders as required. The cost of the project is expected to be in the region of £1·2 billion and will provide a much-needed boost to the construction sector, but what assurance can the Minister give that the required funding across the life of the project will be secure to ensure road safety and provide certainty to the construction sector? I note that the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy and the Newbuildings sections could take some time to come to fruition.
Mr O'Dowd: I thank the Member for her question. As the Member stated in her opening comments, this is a flagship project of the Executive, so the Executive have committed to delivering the project in line with all our statutory obligations. I am confident that, following the agreement of the Executive last Wednesday, this section of road is now fully funded, and I am confident, given that the entire route has been committed to by the Executive, the Irish Government and, indeed, the British Government, that finances will be made available to complete the entirety of the A5 for the reasons that I outlined in my statement: road safety, ending regional imbalance, improving the economic outlook for that region and ensuring that we give all our communities an equal opportunity to thrive.
Mr McAleer: I welcome the Minister's statement. As one of the representatives of communities along that route, I can say that everyone is hoping and praying that this is it and this is the moment that things will get started on the ground. Minister, when will you be in a position to announce further details about the remaining stretches of the scheme?
Mr O'Dowd: I thank the Member for his question. I reassure him that, although we announced my decision on the Strabane to Ballygawley section on Wednesday, work has been going on, over a significant period, in relation to the other sections. My departmental officials, along with their Southern counterparts, have been analysing the recommendations of the Planning Appeals Commission and looking particularly at the concerns about flooding at the Newbuildings to Strabane section. We were aware of the concerns about flooding, and my Department put mitigations forward to the PAC. The PAC continues to have concerns about that. My officials, along with our Southern counterparts, are working their way through this and want to be in a position, as soon as they can, to bring recommendations to me so that I can carry out my statutory functions in that regard. You will note that I stated that the NSMC has set up a working group that includes officials on both sides of the border so that we can see how we progress that section and ensure that our plans and the plans of Southern officials literally meet up in the right place in terms of connecting the A5 to the N2. I cannot give a definitive time frame, but I assure the Member that work in that regard has been going on and continues.
Mr McMurray: Thank you, Minister. What contingency plans do the Minister and his Department have in place should any legal challenge arise?
Mr O'Dowd: We have put forward a legally robust departmental statement. We will defend that robustly if any legal challenge arises.
Mr Stewart: I welcome today's statement and the timely advance notice of it. Minister, will you expand a bit on the vesting process and outline roughly how long that will take? Is there any reason to be concerned about some of the outstanding issues?
Mr O'Dowd: Once my Department publishes the notice in the papers, which will happen from 14 October onwards, the vesting process will take, I think, around a month to move into place. All affected landowners will be notified in due course. There has been an ongoing conversation with those farmers, because the project has been going on for so long. However, like everybody else, they received confirmation of my proposals last Wednesday. They will receive updated information in due course. Once the land is vested, Land and Property Services (LPS) will engage with the affected landowners on how and what compensation will be paid to each of them.
Mr Gildernew: I thank the Minister for this very welcome statement. I acknowledge his commitment to continue working on the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section. Does the Minister agree that the scheme will improve road safety and save lives?
Mr O'Dowd: I am confident that the scheme has the potential to save lives and reduce road traffic collisions on that stretch of road. The Member will be familiar with the A4. Prior to the A4 being built, there were significant numbers of casualties on that road: in the 10 years since it was built, there have been two deaths. Although one death is too many, that shows that, in certain circumstances, when you provide the proper infrastructure, you can significantly reduce road deaths and serious injury.
Mr Middleton: I thank the Minister for his statement. He highlighted the commitment to seeing the entire scheme developed. From listening to your responses, it is clear that the preparatory work on the Newbuildings to Strabane section will be some time away, not least if a further public inquiry is needed. If that is the case, has the Minister given any thought to improving the existing A5 road in the short term? Obviously, the road safety issues will still exist regardless of whether that section of the scheme happens.
Mr O'Dowd: In the past two years, we have spent considerable amounts of money on A5 schemes, particularly in the areas where the most significant collisions have been recorded. I, along with my officials, will keep that under review. Where continued investment is required, that will take place ahead of any planned upgrade.
Mr McReynolds: I thank the Minister for his statement and the timely speed with which we received it. Will the Minister outline the rationale behind proceeding with what is effectively the middle of the project first?
Mr O'Dowd: The decision to move ahead with that section is in line with the Planning Appeals Commission's recommendation. The section from Ballygawley to Aughnacloy was never confirmed in any of the previous announcements or reports; it has always been a work in progress. The section from Newbuildings to Strabane was confirmed in previous announcements and reports. When my officials were at the Planning Appeals Commission's sittings, they presented a proposal on how, we believe, the flooding concerns in that area could be dealt with. The Planning Appeals Commission continued to raise concerns about that. Therefore, rather than going ahead with an announcement about the two sections and possibly facing a successful legal challenge on both, we thought that it was better to fully understand and respond to the flooding concerns raised in the Planning Appeals Commission's report. Today's announcement allows the first section to move ahead while we continue to investigate solutions to the flooding concerns on the other section.
[Translation: I thank the Minister.]
I thank the Minister and his officials for their continued commitment to and support for the project. It is very much welcomed by the people of West Tyrone, who have waited far too long for the road to be upgraded.
Will the Minister explain what engagement DFI has had with the Dublin Government to discuss funding for the scheme and common interests?
Mr O'Dowd: I have been in correspondence with the Taoiseach. I have spoken to Ministers at various events and formally engaged with them at the North/South Ministerial Council. There is regular engagement between my officials and their counterparts in the Department of Transport in Dublin. We have discussed at length the Irish Government's funding commitments, which remain steadfast. They are aware of my plans, and we will continue to engage with each other about the spending profile that we will require from the Executive and the Irish Government.
Mr T Buchanan: Minister, the majority of the road runs through the entire constituency of West Tyrone. Given that our rural economy depends so much on its agriculture industry and on third- and fourth-generation farmers, what conversations have you and your officials had with LPS about proper compensation to allow those farmers to rebuild their farm businesses and with the Planning Service, which is a real hindrance to the farming community when it tries to rebuild farm businesses?
Mr O'Dowd: I, along with you and Deborah Erskine, met a number of the farmers who are affected by the scheme and who will perhaps be affected by further announcements about other parts of it. I fully accept that their concerns are genuine and come from a good place. As the Member said, those farmlands have been in families for generations. I have said before in the Chamber that I come from a rural background; I understand the bond between the farming community and its land. Those genuine concerns have been expressed in a respectful manner.
I will carry out all my statutory duties, which include engaging with LPS. I have committed to working with Minister Muir where there are planning issues. I suspect that most of the planning issues to which the Member refers will be in planning applications that have been submitted to councils, but I assure him that, in line with my statutory duties, I will work with any Minister or anyone else to ensure that the farmers who are affected by the scheme are treated properly and that, where there are planning issues on which I have powers to assist, I will do so.
Mr Boylan: I also welcome the Minister's statement. When will construction commence on the ground?
Mr O'Dowd: Preliminary works will start early next year. Some works on the ground are already going on, such as archaeological surveys and geotechnical inspections of land. As for work that people will notice, some preparatory work, such as the fencing off of land, will start early next year. The main construction works will most likely start in mid-2025.
Mr Dunne: I thank the Minister for his statement. I, too, welcome the progress on what is a dangerous road indeed. Given the scale of the costs, I was slightly surprised to hear no costings detailed in the considerable statement. Will the Minister provide more up-to-date costings for such a major scheme?
Mr O'Dowd: The estimated cost at this stage is around £1·2 billion. There is still engagement going on between my Department and contractors, and I am mindful that I have to be protective of the public purse. My main driver is to ensure that, when they engage with contractors, my officials are aware of the need to be protective of the public purse and to get value for money.
Mr Honeyford: I welcome this afternoon's statement from the Minister. He referenced the regional balance of the economy and the positive economic outlook for the area. Will he provide an update on the current envisaged economic benefit to Tyrone and Derry from the new A5 road? Are any estimated figures available?
Mr O'Dowd: I do not have the figures in front of me, but we will supply the Member with whatever figures are available to us.
It is clear that, when you provide proper road networks or any form of transport network to a community, the economic benefit is significant. Simply being able to move goods and people in a quicker, safer, more efficient manner shows that it benefits the economy.
Ms D Armstrong: I thank the Minister for his statement. Over the weekend, I met farmers who will be affected by the A5 road scheme. Top of their concerns is the vesting process. Will the Minister assure me that he will work tirelessly with farmers to ensure that none of them are impacted negatively by the scheme?
Mr O'Dowd: I welcome the Member to the Assembly and wish her well during her time here.
As I said, there has already been some engagement. There was engagement over a number of years with affected farmers. Last Wednesday's statement was definitive, so now the farmers who are directly affected will be aware of it. My officials will engage with them, and information sessions will be held. We will let them know, if they have further questions or queries, whom to contact and how to contact them.
It is difficult to say that no one will be negatively impacted: if a farmer is losing some of their land, they are negatively impacted. I accept that financial compensation does not fully resolve the matter for someone whose land has been taken, but financial compensation is a matter for LPS. I assure you that I will do everything within my statutory powers to ensure that the rural and farming community is treated fairly.
That this Assembly recognises the absence of clear and measurable objectives in the draft Programme for Government; and calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to work with their Executive colleagues to introduce specific measurable and time-bound targets, including but not limited to waiting times, child poverty, childcare costs, biodiversity loss, social housing, water and waste water infrastructure, before the draft Programme for Government can be approved.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.
Mr O'Toole: When we came back here, just over eight months ago, the SDLP was clear that it would be a constructive Opposition. We have been constructive but robust ever since. The purpose of an Opposition is not simply to throw snowballs or stones but to do our job, as a public service, for those who have sent us here collectively but have been failed over years — in fact, for nearly a decade now — through repeated failures of the Executive to deliver for the people of the North.
What does our motion say today? The motion is clear: we want to see the Programme for Government (PFG) improved and updated in order to be clear about the targets, timelines and specific deliverables that the people of Northern Ireland can expect from the Executive. That is all: it is not that complicated or dense in policy terms. There is a range of areas where the public can see public services failing and have not had any devolved, Westminster or, for that matter, North/South clarity on who is delivering what for them. There is a crisis of trust in devolved government. Any of us who declare otherwise are being disingenuous. The best we can do in these institutions is to provide a clear plan and road map for how the Executive will address that crisis in confidence. We think that that needs to happen via a plan and that this document, which is a Programme for Government in draft form, is a key part of improving public confidence.
It is important to say that it is a draft. I and some of my colleagues were robust in some of our criticisms of the draft document when it first came out, on the same day as we published our own plan. Certain Executive Ministers were clear that we were being a little negative, were not getting involved and were not doing enough positive thinking. They said that we needed to get with the programme a little more. They also said that the Programme for Government was in draft and that there would be a consultation process. Well, this is consultation. This is an opportunity for all the parties in the Assembly, whether they are Executive parties, the official Opposition or independents, to have our say. It is interesting that some Executive parties have said that they will send in their own responses to the consultation on the Programme for Government. It is slightly surreal, if others do not mind my saying so, for parties that serve in the Northern Ireland Executive to say that they will send in official responses to the Programme for Government, but that, apparently, is what the Alliance Party is doing. However, in the spirit of consultation and fulsome public debate about the Programme for Government, I welcome that. That is what the motion is all about.
It is important to say that there is lots of positive stuff in the Programme for Government. It is also important to say that we recognise a number of things. The now eight-month-old Executive do not have limitless powers to solve all the problems. It is important to say in parenthesis that many of those problems have been made worse by repeated collapses by the two main parties in the Executive, but, even if we had not had collapse, powers here are not limitless. This is a mandatory power-sharing coalition that relies in large part on a block grant of funding that comes from Westminster, and consensus or, at least, some level of agreement has to be found among the four parties that comprise the Executive. I accept that there are not limitless powers to do everything all at once. That underlines and accentuates the need to have a clear set of targets and, with those targets, clear timelines for delivery and clear measurable outcomes that the public can judge the Executive against. I am afraid that the draft Programme for Government document does not have those.
The document has nine priorities. Some people would say that that is rather a large number of priorities, but, even if we go with the nine priorities — they are all important — we need to see clarity and focus on delivery. I also acknowledge that, in several of those areas, progress has been made. It would be churlish of me to pretend that the Executive and Executive Ministers have done nothing worthwhile or constructive since the institutions returned. I do not say that at all: that is not what I think, and it is not the case. I have, for example, commended the Education Minister on the progress that he has made on childcare costs. I have commended the Economy Minister for the clarity that he has given to his focus on, for example, greater all-island collaboration, taking advantage of our dual market access and, hopefully, placing a greater emphasis on regional balance. However, to make real those intentions, we need to see clarity in the Programme for Government about what will be delivered. To pick one example at random, on the provision of at least 10,000, hopefully, student places at Magee in Derry, I would like to see clarity and specificity in the Programme for Government on what it is promising about when those students will be in Derry, when the places will be in Derry or when the mechanics will be put in place to enable that to happen, with the supporting policies around accommodation, funding and all of that.
As I said, the document contains lots of positive aspiration. It also contains lots and lots of warm words but not, in many cases, a lot of clarity. It also misses out on several important things. To pick two examples, there is strikingly little about poverty and mental health in it. However, I acknowledge that no plan can do everything. The fact that those important subjects are not mentioned in the Programme for Government is evidence that, at least to some extent, Executive parties have agreed that there needs to be some level of prioritisation. If there is going to be prioritisation, there needs to be clarity about what actions are being prioritised, whether they are legislative, financial or anything else.
Our motion refers to a number of specific areas. I will touch on those because they are particularly important, but they are not the only things that are important. On waiting times, we know that we have the most devastated health service, possibly, in western Europe, to be honest. Therefore, we want to see clarity. This may come up in the debate, so it is worth saying that some in the health sector, including the BMA, have been clear that they do not necessarily want complete and detailed specificity on certain targets because they think that it would be more helpful to look at the reform programme holistically. We acknowledge that there will be views on whether one specific target is helpful. The point of our motion is to say that, in a general, broad sense, we need more targets. It is also to say that, if there is not to be a specific target for one policy output, there needs to be a clear plan with a timeline and a delivery mechanism, and it has to be agreed on and made public. We do not yet have that from the Health Minister or the Executive writ large.
The next issue that we mention is child poverty. On our second Opposition day, we tabled a series of motions on poverty, one of which touched on child poverty and specifically mentioned the pernicious two-child limit. In the document, there is not a target or even a set of clear intentions around actions being taken to address our shockingly high levels of child poverty, which are higher than in other parts of these islands. On childcare costs, as I said, I recognise the important work that the Minister has done. I have not been churlish or unreasonable, nor have my colleagues, but we would like to see more clarity on what will be delivered through the rest of the mandate. It may be that it will be indicated in a childcare strategy, when one is forthcoming, but we think that it should be embedded in a final Programme for Government.
On biodiversity laws, we have seen an action plan specifically relating to Lough Neagh, but, frankly, with not much specific detail on targets. There are lots of what Donald Trump called recently outlines of a plan or "concepts of a plan" but not specific, measurable targets. We will keep asking for those, because they are important, not for us but for the public — the people who send us here. When it comes to social housing, we know that we have a shockingly low number of social houses and that we are nowhere near fulfilling what was set out in the plans that were outlined in 2020 and 2021. On water and waste water infrastructure, in parts of the North, you simply cannot build a house, let alone get to the targets that we need to deliver on our social housing strategy. What is the plan for that? The Infrastructure Minister has talked about a proposal or the outlines or concepts of a proposal for a developer charge: we do not have clarity on that yet. If that is a specific legislative intervention, bring it before the House. The same goes for everything else that every other Minister is doing. We need detail, clarity, timelines and targets. We do not have enough of them yet in the draft Programme for Government.
Part of our job as the Opposition is to constructively nudge the Executive and Executive parties, sometimes in a way that may grate on or annoy them, towards more clarity. If that annoys them, I am sorry.
Mr O'Toole: I will happily give way, but I am about to come to the end of my time. I will happily give way if I get an extra minute.
Ms Bradshaw: I am looking at the SDLP's response to the draft Programme for Government for 2011 to 2015. At that time, the party also expressed concern about the lack of detail provided for each priority. The SDLP was in the Executive then, but it is not now. What has changed in your opinion of how a draft Programme for Government should look?
Mr O'Toole: The Member has just floored me by reading out something that was said 13 years ago when neither she nor I were MLAs. If I am right, she has said that, when we were in the Executive —.
Mr O'Toole: Pathetic interventions like that, I am afraid, simply reveal a lack of seriousness.
Mr O'Toole: I ask the Executive parties to support the motion.
Leave out all after "Assembly" and insert:
"recognises the importance of keeping track of delivery against the objectives in the draft Programme for Government; and calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister, building on existing commitments to publish an annual delivery report and monitor progress against a selection of statistical indicators, to work with their Executive colleagues to consider, where necessary and practicable, the introduction of additional, specific and time-bound targets in relation to the draft Programme for Government." — [Mr Harvey.]
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The proposer will have 10 minutes to move and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other contributors will have five minutes.
Mr Harvey: In moving the amendment in my name and that of Mr Kingston, I acknowledge the progress that the Executive have made on this subject since their re-formation back in February. The publication of the draft Programme for Government on 5 September marked a key milestone, one that the House has not seen since the last Programme for Government, which was for 2011 to 2015 and was agreed by the then Executive parties.
The reality before us is that there is much to be done and little time to do it, a point that I stressed to Executive Office Ministers last week at Committee. Therefore, it is vital that clear Programme for Government objectives form the basis of delivery over the next two and a half years. It is important that we can keep track and easily identify delivery against the objectives laid out in the new Programme for Government. That will afford Ministers clarity on Executive priorities and facilitate the scrutiny of performance.
I am pleased that some areas on which we are all agreed have already seen action, benefiting homes and families across Northern Ireland on issues such as childcare, resolving public-sector pay disputes and considering departmental budgeting plans to allow numerous projects to be given the go-ahead. Documents that have already been published, such as those on the elective care framework, the early learning and childcare strategy and the childcare subsidy scheme, have been welcomed in their respective sectors. I look forward to seeing how work that is in progress can align with the objectives of the programme and how, in turn, the programme will allow us to identify areas requiring targeted intervention.
The Opposition motion highlights several areas that will, no doubt, be front and centre in Ministers' minds. Healthcare and waiting times; childcare costs; poverty; the acute need for social housing; and urgent action on water and waste water infrastructure will all be key priorities over the next few years. However, that is not an exhaustive list of the many issues and difficulties that are faced. Whilst not identified in the motion, issues such as the provision of enhanced services around special educational needs, for example, or the requirement for delivery on key infrastructure projects, are equally important.
On social housing, for example, my party colleague has been working hard on a housing supply strategy, being aware of the necessity to set out how improvements and investment can deliver 100,000 homes over the next 15 years, with one third of them being social and affordable. Borrowing capacity needs to be reinstated for the Northern Ireland Housing Executive in order to enable it to begin building once again. The Executive must continue to invest in new models of affordable housing, from shared ownership to the new models of affordable renting.
Whilst the programme, once completed, will supply the Government with a road map, it will, arguably more importantly, inform the private sector of the Executive's priorities, providing much-needed clarity and certainty for the coming years. The input flowing from the current public consultation will therefore be a vital element of the process and will, hopefully, inform the Executive's discussion of how best to enhance and elaborate on the initial draft framework. We, as a party, will seek to work with others to ensure that specific, measurable and time-bound objectives are introduced where we deem that to be appropriate and practical.
Delivery is pivotal for the DUP. The Executive must deliver and be seen to deliver on the issues that matter to the public over the rest of the mandate. I look forward to the final programme and to seeing the work of implementation commencing.
Ms Sheerin: I welcome the opportunity to speak about our draft Programme for Government, which is out for consultation until 4 November. It is vital that as many people as possible respond to that consultation and have their views fed in. As Mr Harvey outlined, the announcement of our draft Programme for Government on 5 September was a good news day for the North, the Executive and everyone in the Assembly. It was also a key indication of everyone working together to solve the problems that we all face in our constituencies and deal with the issues that our constituents bring to us. If you look at the priorities in the Programme for Government, you see that it tackles the issues that we all face.
Anybody who has listened to me in recent weeks will know that, as a Mid Ulster MLA and someone who lives in south Derry, we have seen a significant problem with water quality recently, which is a result of the problems that we have in Lough Neagh. I was delighted to see that an action plan for Lough Neagh features as one of the priorities in the draft Programme for Government. It is vital that that work starts, because we know that those problems will not be solved overnight. Years and years of underinvestment and decline have led to those problems, and we need to work together to fix them.
Similarly, as constituency MLAs, we have all had people contact us about the rising cost of childcare and the pressure that that puts on working families. Again, a commitment to sort that out — I know that work has begun there — and a cross-departmental approach to the issue are fundamental to good government and to us all working collaboratively together. I could go through all nine priorities, because they are all examples of that. I was particularly pleased to see ending violence against women and girls outlined as a priority, and work has begun on that strategy. Last week, the Committee heard from the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the junior Ministers about the updates that we will receive on that work. We want that epidemic to end in the North of Ireland; we do not want the North to continue to be one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a woman.
All these things and the work that has been done blasts a lot of the misconceptions that people have about politics in the North. We all have different ideologies; we all have different political perspectives; but we are all united in wanting to see the best for the people whom we represent, and we all want to deliver for the people who have put us here. The draft Programme for Government is a brilliant example of that, and I urge people to feed into the consultation and have their views heard.
Ms Bradshaw (The Chairperson of the Committee for The Executive Office): I will say a few words initially on behalf of the Committee for the Executive Office, and I thank the Members who tabled today's motion for debate.
The consultation on the draft Programme for Government runs until 4 November, and it is important for it to be analysed, discussed and debated to ensure that it is the best possible way forward. The Committee was pleased to receive the much-anticipated draft Programme for Government and will formulate a response to the consultation. We have written to the other Statutory Committees for their views, and I trust that members will play their part in ensuring that the consolidated response will be as helpful as possible.
We expect to receive a briefing from Executive Office departmental officials as soon as is practical at the conclusion of the consultation to ensure that people's views have been taken on board.
The Committee looks forward to playing its part in scrutinising progress as the actions in the final Programme for Government unfold towards the stated aims and objectives. We will examine the indicators of progress and seek meaningful outcomes for individuals and communities going forward.
I will now make a few remarks in my capacity as an Alliance MLA. I support the motion and the amendment. I start by emphasising that a Programme for Government is meant to be a broad set of priorities, not a specific set of targets. It is designed to set out an overall direction of travel, and, to that extent, the document is well-named as it is a broad plan to establish what matters most, and that is, indeed, what a broad four-party Executive should be doing.
Going strictly by the wording of the motion, there is no requirement to place targets in a Programme for Government before it is approved. However, there is a requirement to set targets in key areas before it can be approved and signed off. We could debate precisely what constitutes "specific" and "measurable" and whether we should take "time-bound" to mean in the current mandate. Some of the areas stated in the motion need to be addressed over the medium to long term, so targets set for the current mandate would be staging posts, rather than a final destination, or evidence of a particular action aimed at a longer-term goal. Fundamentally, the public have the right to know what Executive Ministers have set out to do, so that, come election time, voters can best assess whether they have done it. Of course, targets are just one aspect of that, and we need clear road maps for attaining them.
The other omission from the motion and something that is central to the effectiveness of a Programme for Government is that actions have to complement one another; it has to be based on cohesion, not just for purpose but for action and delivery. It is for that reason, among others, that the Alliance Party has proposed that a stand-alone mission for peace and peacebuilding should be inserted into the final Programme for Government.
We need to recognise that we cannot achieve the ambitions contained in the programme, regardless of whether we have specific targets, if we do not tie it together with work on reconciliation, equality and inclusion. Ongoing political instability, the failure to tackle division and the maintenance of paramilitary control over some communities are huge barriers to achieving anything set out in the Programme for Government. We need assured stability, work on integration and an end to gangsterism if we are to meaningfully grow our economy, improve our public services and deliver shared prosperity.
Mr O'Toole: I am grateful to the Committee Chair for giving way. Does she think that the Programme for Government should have specific targets for any of the areas that she mentioned, whether for tackling paramilitarism or for political stability? For example, should the PFG include a target to reform the institutions?
Ms Bradshaw: Thank you. I thank the Member for his intervention. The point that I made was that, once the draft Programme for Government is agreed, we should have those specifics. They are what the Committee for the Executive Office would measure, scrutinise and assess.
The motion makes reasonable points, but they are limited because we have to think about implementation in the broadest possible sense. As I said, there is no harm in outlining targets for various Departments so that the public may assess them, and, indeed, there is no harm in adding indicators to the process, but they need to be accompanied by meaningful actions and, in our view, by an overarching mission on "Peace and Reconciliation".
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): As Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, I suggest that the Assembly takes its ease until then. The debate will continue after the questions for urgent oral answer listed for today, when the next Member to speak will be Connie Egan.
The debate stood suspended.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair)
Mrs Little-Pengelly (The deputy First Minister): No such assessment has been undertaken. It would not be possible to do so because we cannot know what would have been in a programme during the years in question. We are, however, delighted to say that consultation on the draft Programme for Government began on 9 September. The draft programme is supported by a well-being dashboard that includes a range of indicators on the wider health and well-being of local people, our economy and our environment. The well-being dashboard will be published and updated regularly. It will be used to help us understand the impact that the programme is having.
Mr Butler: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. If we continue to repeat the sins of the past, we will never get any better. In my estimation, it is unarguable that the failure to have government here for five years out of eight impacted on our ability to have a Programme for Government and on people's lives. Will the deputy First Minister give an undertaking to the House that a conversation will be had to learn from the mistakes of the past so that we can move into a better dispensation for the people of Northern Ireland?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: It is imperative that we all work together to ensure that stability. At the heart of that must be addressing issues head-on but also finding a shared way through some of the challenges that we face. He is, of course, right, but it is also fair to say that the vision, objectives and policies outlined in the previous Programme for Government had not been fully completed at the end of that period in 2016. Therefore, there is no doubt that Departments were able to continue much of that important work on the priorities set out under the previous Programme for Government. I welcome the fact that we have the draft Programme for Government out to consultation. Ultimately, while we can look back and learn, we must look forward, address the issues and try to ensure a stable and prosperous future for all of us.
Mr O'Toole: In the spirit of looking forward and delivering what is in the draft Programme for Government — hopefully, it will get a bit more specific — will the deputy First Minister confirm that she will be here for the remainder of the mandate, that she will not resign her office and that she will deliver what will be in the final document that succeeds the draft Programme for Government?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. Some of those issues are, perhaps, outside my control. I hope that there are no matters over which I have to resign. I have made it clear that I have a determination to create stability. The people of Northern Ireland want that stability to drive forward the changes that we need to see, particularly around the reform and transformation of our public services.
Our draft Programme for Government is entitled, 'Our Plan: Doing What Matters Most'. It is about the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly delivering for people on what matters most. What matters most are health waiting lists; transformation of services to ensure that they deliver effectively; and tackling the big issues of education and special educational needs, affordable childcare and growing our economy. Delivery on that is what we will be focused on in the years to come.
Ms Forsythe: I have had a look at the well-being dashboard. It is good to see it online; people can see what it is starting to look like. What will it look like? What sort of indicators can we expect to see there?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. The well-being dashboard is a very exciting development. There are 40 indicators on the dashboard. It is live, and I encourage Members to go on to it through the Executive Office website. Some amendment may be made to the indicators, depending on the outcome of the Programme for Government consultation process. Those indicators are all about what the leader of the Opposition referenced: monitoring progress against set baselines. That will be done in live time as the various sources of information are updated. Some of that work will be done monthly, depending on the reporting cycle, and some will be beyond that. It will, however, all be transparent and open on the website as part of the well-being dashboard, which is a really exciting initiative for monitoring progress. There will hopefully be continual improvements against the targets that we set.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: The annual racial equality indicators report monitors the progress of the racial equality strategy 2015-2025 on four key outcome areas: equality of service provision; increased participation, representation and belonging; celebration of cultural diversity; and eliminating prejudice, racism and hate crime. The most recent report, which was released on 19 September, showed that, compared with the 2014 baseline, levels of acceptance of, for example, eastern Europeans, Irish Travellers and Muslims as residents, work colleagues or family members had all increased significantly by 2022. That is a key indicator of progress against the targets.
While it remains a key priority to deliver fully the commitments in the current strategy, it is important that, post 2025, there be a clear mechanism and overarching framework for achieving racial equality in our society. As part of that, we will be examining how best to use ethnic equality monitoring and other measurements to assess the effectiveness of actions taken and to inform the new approach.
Mr Carroll: Minister, you have repeatedly used the phrase "legitimate concerns" when talking about migration. There is nothing legitimate to be concerned about when you are talking about migration. There is misinformation that definitely needs to be challenged and refuted. Will you commit to not again publicly using the phrase "legitimate concerns" when you talk about migration? Ministers need to be careful about language and not give a wink and a nod to people who may be engaged in racism or are perhaps racist thugs.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. Let me be clear: all racism and hate and all public disorder or violence that is based on it is wrong. It is incredibly important to draw a strong differentiation between that and concerns that are raised in communities. I have made it clear that, as Ministers and political representatives, we must be there to listen to people's genuinely held concerns. That includes, for example, concerns about access to affordable housing and public services. I would suggest that the Member look again at what I have said, which is that there may well be legitimate and genuinely held concerns about access to affordable housing and public services. That is entirely different from and no justification for any violence, racism, hate or disorder. I cannot be clearer on that.
Miss Hargey: Following on from that question, does the deputy First Minister agree that there is a duty on all of us as political leaders actively to promote a zero-tolerance approach to racism and to build a future defined by inclusivity, tolerance and respect?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. I absolutely oppose racism, sectarianism and hate, on whatever it is based. We have just released our framework and delivery plan for ending violence against women and girls, so it can mean gender-based hate and violence as well. All of that is wrong, and we should stand strongly united as political leaders and representatives against it.
Mr Kingston: Mindful of today's date, I ask how important strong political leadership is when responding to violence and racism, including antisemitism, on our streets.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. We have seen racism play out, not just on our streets, albeit by a small minority, but on social media. As the Member reminds us, today is the anniversary of the horrific terrorist attacks on 7 October 2023 in Israel. We must remember that date as one of the darkest days. Today, we remember the men, women and children who were brutally murdered one year ago and recognise the strength of those who have lost loved ones or had them taken from them.
We should all be concerned about the ongoing situation in the Middle East. We should all be calling for all hostages to be returned safely to their families and for calm to be restored in Gaza, Lebanon and the wider region. Israel, of course, has a right to defend herself. I am deeply saddened by the antisemitism and racism that has been demonstrated on social media, on the streets and in other forums on the issue. We should all stand united against all forms of racism and sectarianism, no matter where that is found.
Ms Bradshaw: Deputy First Minister, you referenced ethic equality monitoring. We do not have that embedded on a statutory footing yet. With the delay in the revised Race Relations Order, are you minded to bring it forward through the Executive Office as stand-alone legislation?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. This is something that goes just beyond that statutory requirement. There are things that we can do. Indeed, the unit in the Executive Office is working with agencies, the Civil Service and public sector and more widely in monitoring that type of data and to collect it. It is important that we understand the issues and challenges in order to take appropriate action where it is needed most. Part of that will be around that monitoring, which could be put on a statutory footing. We are actively considering that, and the Committee has been informed about some of the ongoing discussions. We are aiming to bring forward those suggestions and recommendations very shortly.
Ms Hunter: Deputy First Minister, should Northern Ireland have a stand-alone hate crime Bill, and, if so, will you ask that the Justice Minister brings that forward?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. The Member will be aware that that issue is under active consideration. Fundamentally, it lies primarily with the Justice Minister, but it is a cross-cutting matter, so it would need to come to the Executive, and the agreement of the House would need to be sought. Concerns have been raised about balance in all of this, particularly the absolutely core protection of the basic human rights and civil liberties in relation to freedom of speech and expression. The Member and I and many others across the House have been subject to a significant amount of hate, for example on social media, so there are problems to be addressed. However, we need to be careful, on the way forward, to have the right balance between tackling the scourge of hate online and in the world around us and those basic human and civil liberties.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will ask the junior Minister to answer this question.
Mrs Cameron (Junior Minister, The Executive Office): We recognise the important role that high streets play in our society in more ways than one. They drive the economy and create shared spaces where society thrives. We know that the nature of our high streets and the way that people shop is changing, and we need new solutions to those issues. The report presented to us by the high street task force represents a genuine collaboration across many sectors, including central and local government, academia and the third sector, as well as businesses. That collaborative approach must continue over the coming years to deliver high streets and village, town and city centres that are fit for the 21st century. We thank the members of the high street task force for their work. The report makes 14 recommendations, and we will shortly write to Executive colleagues to ask them to take forward the appropriate recommendations.
Mr Buckley: I thank the junior Minister for her answer. In just the past 24 hours, the Yellow Door deli in my constituency closed its doors on Portadown high street, citing spiralling costs. That is not an isolated issue; it is happening in towns and villages across Northern Ireland. With that in mind, will the junior Minister outline who is coordinating the cross-departmental approach that needs to be taken to deliver on the high street task force report?
Mrs Cameron: I thank the Member for that important supplementary question. High streets are vital to communities throughout Northern Ireland. Of course, we must recognise the changes, as I mentioned, in consumer shopping in recent times. It is sad to hear about that closure. We all have examples of businesses that close and are not able to continue. That is difficult to witness. We understand the difficulties around the cost of living and the cost of goods.
The high street task force highlighted important actions that can help to revitalise local communities. It will now be up to the relevant Ministers to take forward the recommendations most relevant to their Department, and, in doing so, they will wish to work with councils and play an important role in driving people back through various initiatives and animations.
Mr McGuigan: I note that, in her response to the substantive question, the junior Minister said that 14 recommendations would be sent to Ministers. Do Ministers support all the recommendations in the high street task force report?
Mrs Cameron: Yes. We agree with the principles of the recommendations. High streets must be supported. How the task force recommends we do that and impacts since the report was published, such as the cost-of-living crisis, the budgetary position and developments in place-based working, are all factors that colleagues across the Executive need to consider. Colleagues across DFE, DFC, DFI and DOF may have particular thoughts on how to take forward the recommendations that sit within their policy control.
Mr Dickson: All constituencies suffer from the challenges that high streets have, none less so than East Antrim in the town centres of Carrickfergus and Larne. What learning points has the Executive Office taken from the report? How will its recommendations be delivered?
Mrs Cameron: I do not think that I have a relevant answer for that. If I may, I will come back to the Member in writing on that particular point.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: The issue was discussed at our meeting with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on 2 October. We remain committed to ensuring that the needs of victims and survivors continue to be met. We are delighted to have agreed the new victims and survivors strategy, which has also been endorsed by the Executive. A key part of the strategy is to provide support for victims and survivors, and their families, as they try to move forward from the experiences of the past. The draft strategy recognises the importance of truth and justice and the need to work towards greater societal recognition of the hurt, loss and trauma of our past. We will continue to provide support for victims and survivors through the advocacy support network, which is delivered by community organisations and funded by the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS) and is part of the forthcoming PEACE PLUS programme.
Mr McGlone: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Given that the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery (ICRIR) has agreed to investigate only eight out of 85 potential cases, will the deputy First Minister detail what steps her Department will take to ensure that every victim of the Troubles has an equal opportunity for justice?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his important question. It is appropriate to recognise the deep hurt that continues to be felt by many families. That is compounded by the fact that so many — hundreds — of those victims and survivors have not yet had justice or truth. I mentioned that we had raised the issue with the Secretary of State. Of course, there are different views on that important issue, but one of the issues that I raised directly was the sense that there is a hierarchy of victims or a two-tier approach. All parties around the Chamber opposed the legacy legislation and, through that, the establishment of the ICRIR. However, it is incumbent on those who have faith in the ICRIR to explain to families why that process is sufficient for some but not for all. If a different process is required for some, what inadequacies in the ICRIR process is that trying to resolve?
I have confidence in Sir Declan Morgan. He is an honourable man who will do his best through the ICRIR. There are issues with article 2 compliance, as highlighted by the recent court judgement. Those issues will have to be addressed, because at the heart of this is a responsibility on us all to support all families to get the best possible opportunity for truth and justice. All families deserve the same opportunity.
Ms Sheerin: In 2012, the former British Prime Minister David Cameron acknowledged shocking levels of collusion in the murder of Pat Finucane. We know that that was not the only case in the North where collusion was at play. Is the deputy First Minister confident that the public inquiry will deliver the truth that the Finucane family so deserves and expose the practice of British state collusion?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. Any so-called article-2 compliant process should be capable of getting truth and justice. I gently remind the Member, in a personal capacity, that there are people, not least those sitting in the Chamber, who know truths that they could give to victims and survivors, addressing the fact that those victims and survivors have not had truth and justice. There are others associated with political parties and others who hold that important truth and are withholding it from families.
We should never forget that 90% of the murders that took place during the Troubles were committed by paramilitary organisations and that many thousands of the families affected have not received truth and justice. I appeal to everyone in the Chamber to work together to ensure that all families receive truth and justice.
Mr Brett: I thank the deputy First Minister for her ongoing efforts in respect of victims across Northern Ireland. Does the deputy First Minister agree that all victims in Northern Ireland deserve truth and justice, none more so than Gina Murray? As the deputy First Minister knows, Gina Murray campaigned tirelessly following the sectarian murder of her 13-year-old daughter by the Provisional IRA on the Shankill Road. Gina Murray passed away at the weekend having not seen truth or justice for her daughter. Does the deputy First Minister agree that those who may hold information or who continue to support those who carried out those acts should finally honour her legacy by giving truth and justice to her family?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his very appropriate question. As indicated, we should all take time to pay tribute to the incredible work that so many families of victims have done over the years to try to get truth and justice. I pay tribute to Gina Murray, whose life was undoubtedly shaped — shaped so terribly — by the tragic loss of her 13-year-old daughter, Leanne, in that sectarian Shankill bomb. That cannot be justified, and it should not be justified by anyone.
Ultimately, Gina Murray gave decades of her life to campaigning for truth and justice for her daughter and for so many victims and survivors. We pay tribute to her. In memory of Gina, we across the House should absolutely commit ourselves to campaigning for the best opportunity for truth and justice for all and to ensuring that everyone has the same opportunity to get truth and justice.
Ms Sugden: At a recent meeting of the Committee for the Executive Office, Sir Declan Morgan suggested that his commission's investigations are potentially more independent than those of a public inquiry, given that the Secretary of State sets the terms of reference for a public inquiry and, indeed, can amend them if he feels that it is in the public interest to do so. Does the Executive Office have an opinion on that?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. There is no departmental position on that. As I indicated, however, we sometimes bandy about terms such as "article-2 compliant" that do not always translate meaningfully on the ground. That means a process that is sufficiently independent to have been deemed under our international commitments to independently and fully have the powers to investigate issues relating to the death of a person. With that in mind, the key thing is that the ICRIR must be article-2 compliant in order to do that.
Most of all, we have always said that the fact that all families deserve truth and justice is key to our approach. There must remain an opportunity for all families to get justice. That is why we opposed the blanket amnesty that was set out in the previous legislation. We welcome the fact that that has been changed.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: 'Infrastructure 2050' sets out the strategy for investment in infrastructure for the next 30 years in order to stabilise, deliver and transform. It aims to ensure that projects help to create thriving communities and places; a clean, secure and sustainable environment; and a competitive and connected economy. It also seeks to build resilience in public services. We are considering the final draft. We hope that, after we have done that, we will be in a position to bring the strategy to the Executive.
Mr McHugh: Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagra.
[Translation: I thank the Minister for her answer.]
Minister, we know that a whole-of-government approach is required to achieve our objectives. Will the Minister outline how she will ensure that the ISNI is aligned with other key strategies?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. It is essential that we learn the lessons from the previous investment strategy. It set out a clear prioritisation and clear Executive agreement, yet some of those capital projects have not been completed. There are significant increased costs in some of those capital projects. I have said this before, and I will say it again: when the timelines and costs of projects run over, it means that we can do less than we want to with the capital funds that are available. It makes sense, of course, for the projects to be driven forward in a way that best attempts to do them in a timely way and on budget. That has not always happened, and we need to learn those lessons. I welcome the fact that a whole series of actions is now happening in order to identify the problems and to ensure that, as we move forward with the new ISNI, as it is often referred to, we fulfil the ambition that it sets out.
Mrs Erskine: The investment strategy is important in order to ensure that capital projects can drive investment to Northern Ireland. FDI in Northern Ireland has been a success story. What more can we do to work with the Government to showcase Northern Ireland and maximise opportunities in order to attract more investment to Northern Ireland? How can that be tied into the investment strategy?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. Absolutely; we have to work very closely with the Department for Business and Trade on matters that go across the UK. I welcome the fact that two opportunities are coming up this week. The new council of the nations and regions, which will meet on Friday, will be an opportunity to raise those issues. The investment summit is happening on Sunday evening and on Monday in London. That is an opportunity for the First Minister and me to engage at a high level with key businesses not only to seek investment but to make clear the opportunities that exist for Northern Ireland. Throughout all that and thus far, we have made it clear to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Secretary of State that the UK strategy for economic growth and investment must include Northern Ireland, and we will continue to do that. Northern Ireland must be fully integrated into the pitch that is made and the opportunities that can be secured in order to ensure that all parts of this United Kingdom can benefit from economic prosperity.
Ms Egan: In the context of projects in previous investment strategies not being delivered, what lessons will the Department learn to ensure that all actions are delivered in the forthcoming strategy?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. Detailed work has been taken forward, particularly under the head of the Civil Service and the Strategic Investment Board (SIB). SIB is tasked with bringing forward the new investment strategy, but it is undertaking a number of pieces of work to learn lessons from what happened not only to identify the problems but to recommend where we can find solutions to issues in the process.
We have always said that this must be an Executive that deliver. I want this to be an Executive that is all about delivery. Part of that is getting agreement on prioritisation. A big part of it will be about securing a much-needed Budget. A critical aspect of that and one on which projects often fall down is in delivery, implementation and roll-out. We need to get those right, and that includes everything from procurement, business cases and contractual obligations to the roll-out on the ground. All those pieces must work together if we are to deliver on time and on budget, which is what we very much want to do.
Ms McLaughlin: Will the Minister detail the specific targets that will be included in the investment strategy in order to ensure that regional balance is a key priority, as stated in the draft Programme for Government?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her question. I hope that we have made it clear thus far that we want every part of Northern Ireland to benefit from economic prosperity. Our focus is on economic growth. We recognise that economic growth is key to ensuring that we have happy, thriving communities, no matter where they are throughout this place. Of course, the investment strategy will actively look at opportunities to ensure that investment is made right across Northern Ireland. I am sure that the Member welcomed the announcement that was made just last week about the A5. At the very heart of that is the fact that, in order to get that prosperity, people need to be able to travel to take up those opportunities, and they need to be able to do so safely.
Infrastructure is such a critical part of ensuring that prosperity, and we will make sure that no part of Northern Ireland is left out, should it be the north-west, the south-west, Causeway coast and glens, right through to the Mournes and Newry and Armagh. I have probably forgotten somewhere by the way, so, if I have, I apologise, but we want to ensure that all parts of Northern Ireland prosper.
Mrs Little-Pengelly: We have been clear that we must build on the common ground that we all share to realise the potential of the site for the benefit of all, and we are committed to working with the development corporation to achieve that. The future use of the listed and retained buildings is part of the wider discussion that will undoubtedly take place. We recognise that there is a lot of history with the site, and that will require us to move with consensus and sensitivity. Unlocking the potential of the site must be done in a way that is entirely sensitive to the needs of victims and to the history and heritage of this place. I can assure the Member that engagement with those affected will be an essential part of any process of developing proposals, if it gets to that stage.
T1. Mr O'Toole asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given that the deputy First Minister just mentioned sensitivity in relation to victims and earlier acknowledged the deep hurt felt by victims of paramilitaries and said that 90% of murders during the Troubles were committed by paramilitaries, how, she thinks, victims of loyalist paramilitaries feel when, 30 years after the loyalist ceasefire, Ministers meet representatives of those paramilitaries to discuss policy. (AQT 601/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. Let us be clear: paramilitarism is wrong. It always was. There was always an alternative. However, our peace process has always been built on engagement. Across many aspects of government, agencies, including the PSNI, engage with those in the community. We must always reach out and continue to engage with those who wish to progress. The continued transition of those once involved with organisations that are now on ceasefire has to be core to our processes and moving communities on. I assure the Member that all engagement must take place firmly within the context of our public and firm view against all terrorism or paramilitary activity.
Mr O'Toole: I will assume, hopefully, that the deputy First Minister will not seek the input of loyalist paramilitary gangs when it comes to other policy areas. I will ask this specific question. The Programme for Government says:
"Paramilitary harm continues to affect too many adults and young people".
"paramilitary gangs continue to exert coercive control".
That is the case in certain communities here, including in east Belfast, where East Belfast GAA is unable to safely practise because there continue to be vexatious threats to its grounds. What message does it send when Ministers in the Executive continue to have meetings — I repeat this — with representatives of those organisations?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. Again, I will be very clear about this: threats are wrong, and any violence or disorder on the basis of that is wrong. People should be allowed to go about their business, should that be work, education or sport, and the Education Minister has made that clear. I refer the Member to the previous answer and ask him to look back over the last 25 years, because the heart of our process is around engaging — engaging with the organisations that, I highlight at this stage, are ceasefire organisations. Where there is criminality or continued paramilitarism or terrorist activity, we have been very clear that the PSNI must do everything that it can to have a criminal justice response to such activities, because there is no role for those in the Northern Ireland of today. There never was in the past, and there certainly is not in the future. We must all work together to stamp out the scourge of paramilitarism.
T2. Mr Chambers asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given that public confidence in this place has been somewhat eroded by the events over recent years, whether the deputy First Minister will give her assessment of the impact on that already damaged public confidence after the events that have occurred over recent days. (AQT 602/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. It is absolutely important that we show that leadership, and that leadership must be based on the principles of integrity, honesty and openness. Indeed, I encourage all those to act in that manner.
Mr Chambers: Thank you for that. The last thing that anyone in the Chamber wants to see is another collapse of the institutions. Will the deputy First Minister join me and my party in calling on all Members to commit to putting the importance of devolution and good governance ahead of personal or party interests?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Absolutely, we all have a duty here to do what we can to create stability. As I indicated, at the heart of that must be an open, honest and credible approach. Anything that discredits or damages that must be avoided at all costs; indeed, all actions possible must be taken to address that.
T3. Mr Martin asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether, in light of the case of the former Sinn Féin press officer Michael McMonagle, who recently admitted child sex offences, and as the Executive Office has responsibility for important areas of work involving victims, historical abuse and safeguarding, victims of abuse can be confident that Ministers in the Executive Office act at all times in the interests of openness and transparency and, most importantly, in the interests of victims. (AQT 603/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his important question. Ultimately, these are serious questions for Sinn Féin to answer. It is clear that there are a number of questions to be answered. I can speak on this only in my personal capacity, but I encourage the party to answer those questions in a very open and transparent way.
The Member is absolutely right. The Executive Office had a role in overseeing the independent inquiry into historical institutional abuse. We are overseeing work on the mother-and-baby homes and important investigatory research projects on clerical abuse. Indeed, representatives from the main political parties here made an apology to the victims and survivors of such abuse for those failings and faults. Those failings and wrongs were all to do with safeguarding children. That is what our primary focus must be. Lessons must be learnt from that. The lessons from the findings are around openness, candour, honesty and not moving the problem on to someone else. It is about taking responsibility. Those are all core. A huge part of that work and the reason for it is learning those lessons.
There are serious questions about the current situation that have to be answered. As leaders, we have to be honest and credible. Very many people out there will feel that the answers simply have not been credible thus far. Therefore, I urge the people involved to be open, honest and credible on the matter.
Mr Martin: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. In light of what she said, does she agree that the First Minister should now answer with complete transparency all questions put to her about how she, individually, and her party acted in all aspects of the case?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Again, I can answer only for myself. I absolutely agree: people deserve credibility. There has been a huge amount of trauma relating to child safeguarding issues over recent years and recent decades. As leaders in Northern Ireland, we all have a duty to make it clear that we are being fully transparent and open. Events over the course of the last week or so have damaged that credibility. We need to now move to that.
I put on record the fact that I distance myself from any comments that tried to put the blame for this on to other organisations, particularly the charity involved, the British Heart Foundation. I know the charity. It does a huge amount of good work. Responsibility for the issue must be taken. I hope that there will be very clear openness and honesty about it.
T4. Miss McIlveen asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how aware their office is of the challenges faced by the agri-food sector in accessing workers, particularly in the mushroom growing and fishing industries, and the impact of that on the Northern Ireland economy. (AQT 604/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for her important question. I have listened to representations on the issue from her, MPs and MLAs and from the agri-food, farming and hospitality sectors. Those jobs are essential. The Northern Ireland farming sector is a net contributor and supplies 10 million people across the UK, which is well above our population. It is really important and really valuable. However, it can do that only if it can get access to the right workers. We have continuously raised the issue with the UK Government. The approach was never about closed borders entirely; it is about having a sensible approach to migration and immigration and addressing the needs of sectors. We will continue to raise those issues, because we know how important they are to the continued supply of those goods.
Miss McIlveen: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Will she commit to leading a cross-departmental delegation, including the Agriculture and Economy Ministers, to meet the Home Office to try to resolve the issues in respect of visas for workers who are needed in the sector?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: Absolutely. I commend the Member for all the work that she is doing to highlight the concerns in the industry. We know that there is serious concern, and I know that because the Member has had the conversation with me. The Agriculture Minister should lead and be part of the team that speaks to the Home Office about that important issue. I am certainly happy to engage with the Member to see whether we can encourage the Agriculture Minister to do so.
T6. Mr McHugh asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they agree that the recently signed city deal for the Derry City and Strabane District Council area will be key to helping to address regional imbalance, particularly in relation to the north-west. (AQT 606/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: I thank the Member for his question. I absolutely agree. At the very heart of city and growth deals is the sense of using whatever levers and investment are available to encourage economic growth, the "levelling up" agenda, as it was known. That is very much what we want to achieve across Northern Ireland. We believe that a better and brighter future for Northern Ireland lies with economic prosperity but that economic growth must benefit all parts. That is why we are deeply disappointed that the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deal and the Mid South West growth deal have been paused and are not progressing. When you look at the statistics for those areas, you see that there is significant need for the intervention of additional funds for economic growth. We will continue to raise that directly. I have no doubt that the First Minister will agree that we should raise the issue directly with the Prime Minister on Friday at the new Council of the Nations and Regions. We will continue to raise it at the highest possible level. We want all areas to benefit, and the city and growth deals are essential to that.
Mr McHugh: Minister, do you agree that ongoing investment in areas such as the north-west, particularly my area of West Tyrone, will lead to a vibrant and thriving economy that we can look forward to?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: Absolutely. We have fantastic businesses throughout Northern Ireland. In areas of Northern Ireland, there is a focus on particular industries, such as advanced manufacturing in mid-Ulster, We have specialisms in different places. That is a model that we can build on, working with Invest NI and across the Departments. Where there are job or investment opportunities, we must ask, "How can we ensure that these are spread in such a way that brings economic benefit to all parts?". The clear message from the Executive is that no part of Northern Ireland will be left behind. We will continue to be a champion for every part of Northern Ireland: north, south, east and west. That is at the heart of all of the work that we do.
T7. Mr McReynolds asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to provide an update on work to end violence against women and girls, given its prominent place in the draft Programme for Government. (AQT 607/22-27)
Mrs Little-Pengelly: As the Member will be aware, we recently launched our framework and delivery plan. We are actively working on delivery of the challenge fund and the change fund. The challenge fund will be based on two key questions being put out to the sector and inviting organisations to come forward with proposals on how to meet the challenges. We aim for that to go live this month. The change fund will work with councils and community-based organisations. That will have to be delivered through different mechanisms, but we are striving to get it out as early as possible — no later than January 2025 and prior to that date, if at all possible.
Mr McReynolds: Thank you, deputy First Minister. You mentioned some funding schemes: will you elaborate on how much resource has been set aside to facilitate that?
Mrs Little-Pengelly: There is £3 million available for those funds. Over the next two years, it will be about £5 million altogether. We made a bid for additional resources, even beyond those.
The £3 million is not the totality of the ambition of what we want to achieve through the strategy and delivery plan, but it is a start. We took the decision that, rather than simply to wait for everything that we wanted, it was much better to start to get that important work under way and to support those organisations that do such important work in the sector through working with women and girls who find themselves in that situation.
That is the start. If we can get additional resources in the interim, we can and will scale up. All the funding schemes are scalable. In the meantime, however, that is the budget with which we are working.
Mr Speaker: That concludes questions to the Executive Office. I ask Members to take their ease while we move on to questions for the Minister for Communities.
(Madam Principal Deputy Speaker in the Chair)
Mr Lyons (The Minister for Communities): The competition for funding, which closed at the end of August, attracted interest from a range of organisations. My officials are now assessing the applications received. By the end of this year, I expect to be able to make the outcome public and to move on to the next stages and towards awarding funding.
Mr Crawford: I thank the Minister for his answer. Given budgetary constraints, what additional steps does he plan to take beyond capital housing budget increases in order to expand housing options?
Mr Lyons: I am grateful to the Member for his question. I begin by welcoming him to this place. It is good to have another former member of Mid and East Antrim Borough Council here. There are quite a few of us, and the Member is very welcome.
For me, it is important that we progress with the intermediate rent option as an alternative. The Member rightly highlights the need for greater supply all round, however, and that is what I intend to achieve. How I intend to do it will be outlined in the housing supply strategy. We have a housing issue in Northern Ireland, and I want to make sure that we tackle it. The most effective way in which we can do so is by making sure that there is greater housing supply across all tenures.
Mr Durkan: Will the Minister outline exactly how that competition will be judged? What weighting will be given to factors such as housing need and how the lack of affordable housing in an area is affecting other Executive objectives such as the expansion of the university in Derry or the ability to house health workers in any area? Will the bid be assessed solely on profitability?
Mr Lyons: Intermediate rent funding will be awarded on the basis of whom the highest scoring applicant is. There will be an intensive period of due diligence done on the applicant and the applicant's proposals. Legal arrangements will then be required. As to who will benefit from the scheme, I do not intend or want to limit that to any one part of Northern Ireland. It is another tool that we have for dealing with the housing crisis that we face. Much of it is yet to be determined.
Ms K Armstrong: Will the Minister clarify whether there will be provision to ensure that all intermediate rent housing schemes will be shared and mixed tenure?
Mr Lyons: It is certainly our intention to make sure that intermediate housing schemes are available across Northern Ireland. Schemes will not be limited to any one particular area. That falls in with what the Department is trying to do, which is to increase shared housing across Northern Ireland.
Mrs Erskine: I welcome the fact that the Minister said that the scheme will not be limited to any one part of Northern Ireland, so I put in my bid now for Fermanagh and South Tyrone. Where will intermediate rent homes be delivered? To where does he hope to have them allocated?
Mr Lyons: It is no surprise to anyone in the House that the Member has spoken up for her constituency. As I said to Mr Durkan, schemes can be delivered in any location, and I would like to see them delivered right across Northern Ireland. There will be some constraints placed on our doing that, of course. There will be areas where, because of the high rental cost and high demand, the scheme will be more effective. It will not be possible to reflect that and make sure that it works in all different areas because, sometimes, the affordability gap will be very small between social rents and private rents. It is certainly my intention to make sure that this impacts where it is most needed. I hope that this will only be a pilot and that it can be expanded as time goes on.
Ms Ferguson: Will the Minister agree that it should be targeted at the areas and constituencies most in need, particularly given the level of saturation where even temporary accommodation is not available in areas such as Derry and Belfast?
Mr Lyons: The Member has highlighted her area, and there are particular challenges there, especially with temporary accommodation. As I have said on every issue since I have come into post, as a result of the constrained budgetary environment that we are operating in, we need to make sure that every pound that we spend goes as far as possible. Naturally, that means that, where there are areas of high demand, that might be reflected. Where there are areas of high demand, you will see a higher rental cost, so that is where it will be most effective. As I just said to Deborah Erskine, it will not always be possible to get that value for money where there is a smaller affordability gap.
Mr Lyons: As I previously stated, I have been meeting Executive colleagues who have a key strategic remit around housing supply to garner support for full implementation. I have a couple more engagements that I would like to have with other Executive Ministers before this can be concluded, but I am finalising the strategy to bring it to the Executive very shortly. Of course, publication and implementation of the strategy will be dependent on Executive approval, and project structures remain in place to allow implementation of action planning to proceed once approval has been given.
Mr Gildernew: I thank the Minister. The supply strategy sets out a vision for housing and a route map to ensuring that everyone has safe, quality and affordable homes. How will you ensure that you have the capital allocations required for social and affordable housing and that they do not continue to fall short of the strategy's targets?
Mr Lyons: Of course, it is absolutely the case that the housing supply strategy will look at all tenures, but that is not in any way meant to replace the need for sufficient funding for new-build social homes. We have seen an increase in the funding that had originally been allocated by the Executive at the start of this year, and I am pleased that we will be getting additional funding for social homes in Northern Ireland. However, it is not enough, and I will certainly continue to make the case to Executive colleagues, as I hope the Member will, about the need for continued investment. It is now a stand-alone item and objective in the Programme for Government, and that needs to be reflected in future budgetary allocations.
Mr McGlone: I thank the Minister for his efforts on this. Will he agree that, unless the crisis in infrastructural provision for sewage disposal is properly addressed, it has every potential to render his document and his efforts more or less an academic exercise?
Mr Lyons: I will not go as far as the Member on that one. I certainly do not think that it would be an academic exercise. It is certainly an issue that we need to tackle, and it is a drag on our ability to have the homes that we need across Northern Ireland. The whole purpose of the housing supply strategy is that it recognises that there are many different issues that are holding us back and being a problem when it comes to our ability to build homes. I absolutely agree that planning and infrastructure are really important parts. We need to free that up and make sure that there is the land availability, that we can get planning for new homes and that we have the water connections, because the homes will be worthless without that. I have engaged with the Infrastructure Minister on that, and that will be reflected in the housing supply strategy, but it also needs to have the support of Executive colleagues. We need to make sure that action is taken because, if we do not, it is a serious drag on what we want to do. It does not stop all the other things, but it is a problem.
Mr Honeyford: Can the Minister confirm whether the retrofitting of social homes is a key strategic element of the housing strategy?
Mr Lyons: It certainly is, because, as I have set out before, we want people to have not only homes to live in but warm, safe and secure homes to live in. That will be a key part of the strategy. We need to do that to meet the net zero targets, but, importantly, it benefits people, and that is why it needs to be taken forward.
I was pleased to be able to go and see the new Housing Executive properties that were built in north Belfast a few weeks ago. The energy efficiency measures in those homes, and the savings that they will make for people, are incredible. That, of course, has other benefits. In short, yes.
Mr Kingston: What level of funding would the Department need to achieve its 2024-25 target for social houses?
Mr Lyons: In its budgetary bid for 2024-25, the Housing Executive advised that a budget of £193 million would be required to deliver starts on 2,000 new social units this year. I intend to bid for additional funds in the next monitoring round to ensure that we can have new-build social housing. Importantly, I will continue to push for clarification on Housing Executive borrowing powers, because that has the potential to be a real game changer in ensuring that we not only maintain the stock that we have but build new homes.
Mr Lyons: Changes to the housing selection scheme are under way, including an exploration of options for the future of intimidation points. Under the current scheme, someone who leaves their home as a result of domestic abuse can be allocated points for homelessness and primary social needs points for violence or the threat of violence. I am keen to see changes to how applicants who have experienced violence are recognised in the selection scheme. I am aware that the Housing Executive is working at pace to bring forward options for consideration. I assure the Member that I will give those my consideration as a matter of urgency.
Mrs Dillon: I appreciate that, Minister. Will you give us a timeline for that, if you have one, and some assurance that vulnerable women will be protected in any scheme or change of policy?
Mr Lyons: I hope that it is imminent. The Member will be aware of the report that has been commissioned and is now with the Housing Executive. I await recommendations from that and want us to be able to move on them very quickly. I assure the Member that I absolutely recognise the need for us to protect those who are at their most vulnerable. We will do everything that we can to ensure that the system reflects the need that exists.
Ms Sugden: Getting intimidation points is very difficult in domestic abuse cases, which, hopefully, you will address, and indeed all other cases. How will the Minister ensure that we are taking a trauma-informed approach to implementing the policies to ensure that we are not retraumatising people and are supporting them at the point that they need support.
Mr Lyons: I absolutely agree with the need to support people in the way that the Member outlined. That is why I am waiting for the recommendations from the Housing Executive, which, obviously, has the expertise in delivering the scheme. It is absolutely right to recognise the problem and make sure that our system reflects the need for those issues to be addressed.
Ms Egan: Minister, have you engaged with front-line service users and victims and survivors regarding this policy to ensure that you have the voice of lived experience?
Mr Lyons: I certainly have engaged with those who are supported through the Housing Executive, housing associations and the different programmes that they run. It is very much the case that the outputs of the research will facilitate evidence-based decision-making, and an options appraisal will be carried out by the Housing Executive and presented to the Department. If the Member has any particular concerns that she wants to raise, I am happy to hear her views as well.
Ms Hunter: Minister, I recently heard the sad news that the Men's Action Network has been forced to close due to a lack of government funding. It supported a number of male victims of domestic violence. I am mindful that, in the North, we have very few safe places and refuges for men who have been victims of domestic violence. How can your Department help to change that?
Mr Lyons: It is the responsibility of the Housing Executive and, therefore, ultimately, the Department to ensure that people have a safe place to live. I am certainly happy to raise the Member's issue with my officials to see what else we may be able to do. The Member will be aware that various programmes are in place to help people who fall into the category that she described. If there are particularly acute issues that she wants to raise, I will be happy to hear from her.
Dr Aiken: Does the Minister agree that some in society still use paramilitarism to intimidate individuals and families, that the Department of Justice must take more robust action to dismantle those groups and that those organisations should not be called upon to use their influence in communities?
Mr Lyons: It is absolutely the case, and I think that I speak for everybody in the House when I say that there is no room for intimidation in our society. There is no justification for that sort of activity. I will certainly give whatever support is required to make sure that we deal with the issues affecting communities. This particular question is about the future of intimidation points, but, of course, I hope that we will one day be in a position where that is not an issue.
Mr Lyons: The Housing Executive was given approval to construct those properties in North Belfast. However, the way ahead for the Housing Executive to have a regular remit to build homes is still to be resolved. The Housing Executive already has a legislative basis designed to facilitate its borrowing. Currently, however, it is, effectively, prohibited from doing so by the budgeting treatment that is applied to it, which means that it cannot provide the same value for public money as the registered housing associations, which do not have access to borrowing. I am actively pushing for a solution whereby the Housing Executive can borrow so that it can invest in and maintain its current housing stock and be able to add to the housing supply by, once again, becoming a builder of social homes.
Re the areas affected by the loss of tower blocks, each individual business case submitted in relation to the tower block strategy sets out detailed proposals for the site in question, including a feasibility study of opportunities for new-build rehousing sites in the localities and how long they would take to develop. Whilst some of the land made vacant by demolishing tower blocks could be redeveloped, it is too early to confirm whether that would be undertaken by a housing association or the Housing Executive.
Mr Brooks: I thank the Minister for his answer. The Minister will understand that the primary anxiety of people in those areas is that those sites might be cleared and left vacant and in dereliction for some time. Can I reassure my constituents that, should the tower blocks in Clarawood or Cregagh come down, that will not be the case there?
Mr Lyons: Each of those will be decided on a case-by-case basis. Where the Executive has approval for demolition and a new build, there is a timetable setting out anticipated timescales for the rehousing of the residents, demolishment of the properties and appointment of a developer to deliver the new housing. We hope to expedite the latter so that the new-build scheme will quickly follow demolition, but elongated design scheme proposals and tender processes could cause some delay. The Housing Executive will continue to work in partnership with housing associations to transfer sites for development in line with the usual social housing development programme delivery arrangements. I can assure the Member that, where tower blocks are coming down, it is certainly my intention and, therefore, the intention of my Department and the Housing Executive that we have new homes there as soon as possible.
Miss McAllister: Can the Minister touch on an update on the revitalisation of the Housing Executive and whether such revitalisation will go to consultation?
Mr Lyons: We hope to have the Housing Executive revitalisation programme in place very soon. The way that I see it and the way that it has been presented is that we are looking for confirmation from Treasury that the borrowing powers that we seek are already in place and that we should be able to borrow. This should not actually be a change. It is not a change to the way in which the Housing Executive operates. It is not a change to its status. It is confirmation of what we believe is currently the case. A lot of work has been done with the Treasury on this. I have raised it at every opportunity with the Minister of Finance, and the deputy First Minister raised it with the Chancellor. I have raised it with the Northern Ireland Office, and I have raised it with the housing Minister in HMG. I am pushing it on as much as I can, and I will continue to do so, because it is a change that can be made and, ultimately, it is confirmation of what we should be able to do in comparison with what is already happening in housing associations in other parts of the UK. Not being a significant change, it would not need to go out to consultation.
Mr Allen: It is my understanding that energy efficiency measures were the cornerstone of that pilot project in North Belfast. In that context, what steps is his Department taking to understand the measures that have been introduced through that pilot project in order to share that learning across the wider housing sector and beyond?
Mr Lyons: That is absolutely the case. We have seen incredible improvements in the energy efficiency of those homes compared with what went before. They were built to a very high standard, but we want to roll that out. We need to make sure that our homes are more energy-efficient, because that will save us and our constituents more in the long term. There is certainly much that we can share about the new homes that are in place, and there are certainly lessons to be learned for future retrofit programmes.
Mr Lyons: Addressing poverty in all its forms is a key priority for me. As poverty is a complex and multifaceted issue, my Department is engaging with officials from other Departments to develop a final anti-poverty strategy and a range of actions that will help mitigate impacts, reduce the risk of falling into poverty and support people to exit poverty.
As the development of the Executive's strategy moves forward, I will work with ministerial colleagues and their Departments to establish the priorities and commitments that are required to deliver a robust anti-poverty strategy that will positively impact and make a tangible difference to people's lives across Northern Ireland.
Ms McLaughlin: Thank you for your answer, Minister, but the question was, "When?". Given that an anti-poverty strategy is over 25 years late, does the Minister agree that neither his Department nor the Executive have taken poverty reduction seriously?
Mr Lyons: No. I addressed that with the Member in the Chamber when we debated child poverty in North Belfast. I will bring the draft strategy to the Executive in early 2025. I just outlined for the Member the steps that first need to be taken, because I want to make sure that there is sufficient collaboration and working with other Departments so that we have something that is effective and delivers tangible benefits to people right across Northern Ireland.
What are the Executive doing to tackle poverty? You only have to look at our priorities. They are about healthcare, because our poor health in this country often leads to poor outcomes on poverty. It is about improving education, which is key to people getting the skills that they need to be able to flourish. It is about making sure that people have a home that is safe and secure to live in. That is another priority in the Programme for Government. It is about making sure that we have more and better jobs in Northern Ireland. The Member is absolutely wrong to suggest that poverty is not front and centre in everything that we are doing. It is there in black and white in front of her.
Ms Mulholland: Does the Minister agree that conducting a departmental audit of the financial implications of poverty would allow each Department to ascertain where future savings could made through investment in the alleviation of poverty? Will he consider carrying out such an audit of his Department?
Mr Lyons: I am certainly happy to consider that, and I am happy for other Departments to consider it as well. Some of the proposals that we will have in the anti-poverty strategy, funded with a relatively small sum, can leverage huge savings for the rest of the public sector now and in the future. Having data along those lines may be useful. We have set up that cross-departmental working group to reach agreement on the delivery of the proposed interventions, and that may be of assistance to us in that work.
Ms Ferguson: The Minister described a range of engagement with other Departments. Can he give an update on the feedback from the other Departments on the anti-poverty strategy?
Mr Lyons: Yes. I have corresponded with Executive colleagues on the matter. I am pleased that most Departments have come back with a link person for the proposed interventions under the three pillars, which are minimising the impact of poverty, minimising the risk of poverty and assisting people to exit poverty. That work will be carried out in the coming weeks, so we will be in a position to bring the draft strategy to the Executive in 2025.
Mr Lyons: Notwithstanding the budgetary constraints in 2024-25, my Department has provided Libraries NI with just over £4·7 million in capital funding to progress committed projects. The funding provided will allow Libraries NI to complete carbon retrofitting work in Killyleagh library, to complete construction of the replacement library in Fivemiletown, to progress its IT infrastructure replacement programme and to progress design work for a replacement library in Enniskillen. My Department has also provided Libraries NI with just over £31 million in resource funding for 2024-25, including a spend of £820,000 for book stock.
I am pleased to advise that my Department is progressing work on a new public libraries policy to reflect the needs, challenges and ambitions of a modern public library service. I am mindful of the importance and value of our public library network, which provides safe, welcoming and inclusive spaces for people to read, work, study and access information and services. Given the importance of our public library service to communities throughout Northern Ireland, my Department will seek to provide the fullest support it can in resource and capital funding investment.
Miss McIlveen: I thank the Minister for his answer. I welcome the redevelopment of Killyleagh library in my constituency and the innovative way in which Libraries NI funded that transformative project. The Minister will be aware of my persistent lobbying for Newtownards library for the last 15-plus years. Can he give an update on that much-needed facility?
Mr Lyons: I thank the Member for inviting me to Newtownards and showing me the current state of the library. It has fantastic staff who do great work, but the building is simply not fit for purpose. Therefore, the redevelopment of Newtownards library is a key priority for Libraries NI. The present location on Regent Street forms part of a shared site with the council's Queen's Hall facility, and the agreed lease arrangements are in place for library facilities.
Libraries NI has submitted an updated business case to support the proposed redevelopment of the library, which is being considered by my Department. It would increase the library's size from 203 square meters to almost 1,500 square meters at a cost of around £9·2 million. Departmental economists are currently reviewing the business case and responses from Libraries NI to queries raised.
Once the approval of the business case has been secured, the progression of the project will rely on the Department securing the necessary capital funding. There is no definitive timescale for the Newtownards project, and any decision to proceed with the new library will depend on the prioritisation of capital investment in a very difficult budgetary situation. I am sure that the Member will continue to lobby me on the issue.
Mr Dickson: I am sure that the Minister will agree that libraries are much more than just bricks and mortar and that a lot of excellent community and other activities take place there. Can the Minister assure the House that, given the United Kingdom Government's failure to provide pensioners with warm homes this winter, libraries can also be used as warm spaces?
Mr Lyons: Yes. That is certainly the case. I witnessed that just last Friday in Larne library in our constituency. Libraries are not just a place to get books; there is so much more that can be done. I congratulate library staff on the services that they provide for people of all ages but for older people in particular.
T1. Mr Durkan asked the Minister for Communities whether he is aware of the reasons behind the delay in the handover to Arbour Housing of 98 brilliant-looking and completed new social homes at Templemore, given that he will be well aware of the dire need for housing in many places, in particular the Foyle constituency, and the desperate situation that people and families are in when they are waiting to be housed, when there are houses waiting to be allocated to people and become homes. (AQT 611/22-27)
Mr Lyons: I am not aware of any issues with the development that the Member has mentioned, but I will certainly speak to officials and see what the hold-up is, if there is one. I will come back to the Member in writing.
Mr Durkan: I thank the Minister for his answer and for that commitment. I will enlighten him a wee bit. I am waiting for further enlightenment myself, but I understand that the delay is due to the discharge of planning conditions. Will the Minister commit to speaking not just to his officials but cross-departmentally to the Infrastructure Minister to make them get a move on and get people into those homes as a matter of urgency?
Mr Lyons: I am certainly happy to do that. I have a growing concern on hearing that, because it comes up more frequently that homes receive planning permission and are constructed but issues seem to arise later. That increases costs, makes it more difficult to build homes and creates uncertainty in the sector. I am happy to take that up on the Member's behalf and raise it with Executive colleagues if necessary.
T2. Mr Delargy asked the Minister for Communities to provide an update on any energy efficiency schemes that may be available through his Department. (AQT 612/22-27)
Mr Lyons: I am sure that the Member will be aware of a number of things that we are doing on energy efficiency. He will be aware of the affordable warmth scheme and the potential for its replacements, as well as the development of the fuel poverty strategy, which, as I said earlier, is absolutely key. We want people to have homes, but we need those homes to be warm, safe and secure. I hope that, when we have developed the fuel poverty strategy further, we will have in place schemes that will be most effective in helping those most in need.
Mr Delargy: I thank the Minister for his answer. A lot of my constituents, particularly homeowners, have contacted me, saying that they want to make their homes more sustainable and energy-efficient but the schemes are simply not there for them to access. I appreciate that the Minister has provided some update, but will he provide an update on any potential schemes that he hopes to run and who would be eligible for them?
Mr Lyons: That will form part of the housing supply strategy as well as the fuel poverty strategy that I hope to bring forward in due course. It is important that we look at all the available options for making homes more energy-efficient and helping with, for example, home generation of electricity through solar panels. That will cut across some of the Minister for the Economy's responsibilities and relates to the some of the priorities in the energy strategy. An action plan is associated with that strategy. That is where the money should be spent, because that it where it can have the greatest and longest-lasting impact.
T3. Mr Carroll asked the Minister for Communities, while reminding him that there is some form of rent control in the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, France and many US cities and that it is unacceptable to have a Wild West system in place, what level of rent is acceptable in the private rented sector before his Department starts implementing rent controls. (AQT 613/22-27)
Mr Lyons: I am trying to make sure that we have as many housing options as possible. We want affordable housing, social housing and a sustainable private rented sector. That is why we are taking forward changes under the Private Tenancies Act (Northern Ireland) 2022. As I said to the Member earlier, there are concerns about the impact that rent controls will have on supply, so our focus should be on making sure that we do everything in our power to increase the supply. That is where my focus will be.
Mr Carroll: I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, you said that we need "as many housing options as possible", and I agree with you. What work is your Department doing alongside the Finance Minister to look at vesting and compulsory purchasing powers in order to tackle the scourge of empty homes? When a home lies empty, at what point should public bodies be able to acquire it in order to tackle homelessness?
Mr Lyons: We will look at that through the housing supply strategy, but there is a role for the rates system, for example, to put pressure on the owners of homes that have been vacant for, in some cases, years. Sometimes, they are a hub for antisocial behaviour, and they are homes that someone could be living in. There are ways in which we could use the rates system, for example, to tackle those issues. We need to make it as desirable as possible for people who own empty properties to do something with them. The Agriculture Minister, Minister Muir, will also seek to deal with that through the dilapidation Bill that he will bring forward.
T4. Mr McMurray asked the Minister for Communities for an update on publication of the youth homelessness action plan. (AQT 614/22-27)
Mr Lyons: Homelessness is a scourge on society. Far too many people do not have a stable home to live in, and that has impacts for them and their families, including children and their schooling. I do not have an update on youth homelessness for the Member, but, when I do, I will be able to share it with him.
Mr McMurray: Thank you, Minister; I look forward to that. The action plan will need to address the lack of support staff in the sector to help actively address youth homelessness.
Mr Lyons: We spend too much money on temporary accommodation. That money should be spent on preventing homelessness, because that will save us in the long term. We need to do everything that we can to make sure that we help those who are most in need, because we understand that homelessness causes further problems for people down the line. It can cause educational difficulties and, in many cases, serious health issues. It also sometimes impacts on the Department of Justice. We need to make sure that the money that we spend is spent in the best way. When it comes to homelessness, that money should be spent on prevention. Unfortunately, due to the budgetary situation that I find myself in, we are spending far too much money on temporary accommodation. That means that resources are not going where they need to go. In the longer term, we will deal with the issue by making sure that we have more homes across Northern Ireland in all tenures.
T5. Mr Blair asked the Minister for Communities to provide the House with an update on the steps being taken to address claimants' concerns regarding the receipt of letters indicating that they have been overpaid in welfare supplementary payments. (AQT 615/22-27)
Mr Lyons: I am aware of the issue. Those overpayments have caused concern; a number of Members have highlighted that. I have also been made aware that not all customers are being given the same opportunity to access support from the Department to manage their debts. I can advise that work is being progressed to introduce a waiver facility for welfare supplementary payment customers.
Mr Blair: I thank the Minister for that reply. In addition to the measures that he has outlined, what actions are being taken to address the distress caused to claimants by those letters? They are being informed, on one hand, that thousands are being written off, yet the letters remain on file in relation to them.
Mr Lyons: I am happy to speak to the Member specifically about this and any cases that are outstanding. I know that further engagement will take place to agree the new processes and amendments to the customer notifications that are needed to support the change. That should have been introduced last month. If there are further issues on that that he would like to raise with me, I will be happy to discuss them.
T6. Mrs Dodds asked the Minister for Communities to provide the House with an update on the Northern Ireland Football Fund. (AQT 616/22-27)
Mr Lyons: I am pleased to say that good progress is being made in advancing the Northern Ireland Football Fund. Many clubs have asked for funding to help them develop their business case. I am happy to announce today that a further five clubs will be provided with funding in order to do so. They are Newington, PSNI, Institute, Ards and Loughgall.
Mrs Dodds: Minister, that is extremely good news, and it shows what a Minister who is prepared to take action on the issue can achieve in a relatively short time. Can you assure us that your officials will work closely with those clubs to develop their business cases so that we can see progress made quickly towards full implementation?
Mr Lyons: I am grateful to the Member for her comments. She is absolutely right: it lay for far too long. We saw no movement for 13 years. I am pleased that we are now making good progress and that the first letters of offer will be out to clubs by the end of this financial year. That is real progress and real delivery. I understand that some clubs do not have the necessary capacity to move forward with bidding for funding, which is why I have increased the number of staff who are working on the Northern Ireland Football Fund. They can provide assistance to clubs to make sure that they have what they need to complete their application successfully by providing the pertinent information so that they can progress their case as soon as possible. Those people have been waiting for far too long.
T7. Mr Dickson asked the Minister for Communities to indicate to the House what actions he has been taking, together with the Minister of Finance and the Minister for Infrastructure, to deal with the ongoing delays in our planning system. (AQT 617/22-27)
Mr Lyons: As I indicated to Members earlier, dealing with delays will be an important element of the housing supply strategy. Delays are one of the barriers to the rapid building of the new homes that we need to see. I have engaged with the Department for Infrastructure and with Minister O'Dowd in order to highlight some of the particular things that can be done. He has just walked into the Chamber, so he will be able to confirm that I have raised with him the importance of statutory consultees responding more quickly to requests for information. If we want to see more homes built across Northern Ireland, we need to make sure that the planning system is fit for purpose and that we have the correct water infrastructure.
Mr Dickson: Thank you, Minister. In addition to your discussions with the Finance and Infrastructure Departments, what work have you been undertaking with local authorities to advance the improvement of our planning system?
Mr Lyons: That is another important element of making sure that we get the planning system right. The Member will be aware of the significant role that planners play in local government. They have a role to play in making sure that their planning systems are as efficient as possible. That means working with applicants to make sure that they know what information they are meant to give and that they respond as quickly as possible. A week here and a week there makes a lot of difference at the end and drives up costs. We want to make sure that housing is as affordable as possible for people in Northern Ireland, and that means that we cannot have unnecessary delays with planning and waste water connections.
T8. Mr T Buchanan asked the Minister for Communities for an update on the independent review of charity regulation. (AQT 618/22-27)
Mr Lyons: The independent review of charity regulation report was published in January 2022. It made 93 interlinked and mutually dependent recommendations to improve the regulatory framework and the role of the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland within that framework.
Mr T Buchanan: I thank the Minister for that answer. What impact will the £20,000 registration threshold have on small charities?
Mr Lyons: I am considering consultation proposals from my officials to support the introduction of a £20,000 registration threshold below which charities in Northern Ireland would not be required to register with or report to the Charity Commission. Too many charities in Northern Ireland have to do too much work, and that puts some people off. We need to make registration as simple and as streamlined as possible for our charities to operate, and that change will help do that for the smallest ones.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair)
Mr Speaker: Dianne Dodds has given notice of a question for urgent oral answer to the Executive Office. I remind Members that if they wish to ask a supplementary question, they should rise continually in their place. The Member who tabled the question that was selected will be called automatically to ask a supplementary question. Other Members who tabled similar questions will be called after that.
Mrs Dodds asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given their departmental responsibilities to the victims and survivors of childhood abuse and children and young people, for the First Minister’s assessment of how her recent statements in relation to how she and her party managed issues of child protection and safeguarding following the arrest of Mr Michael McMonagle have diminished confidence in her office.
Mrs O'Neill (The First Minister): First, let me address directly the issue of confidence in my office, which has been posed in this question, and let me be crystal clear on this point: I am absolutely and totally committed to ensuring that the strongest and most robust child protection and safeguarding processes and policies are in place. Everything that I do as First Minister is guided by that fundamental commitment. As a mother and as a grandmother, I assert my absolute determination, political and personal, to protecting all children and all other vulnerable people.
In my work in the Executive Office, I have prioritised and focused attention on the needs and rights of victims and survivors of childhood abuse, and of children and young people more generally. The issues that have arisen over recent days result primarily from the actions of two former press officers who have now resigned from their employment and from Sinn Féin.
I now want to set out clearly and comprehensively the circumstances surrounding the departure of those two press officers. In that regard, Mr Speaker, I am asking for your indulgence to allow me the space and time to do so. [Inaudible.]
Mrs O'Neill: It is important that I set out and address the legitimate concerns that are being raised, because it is an important matter of public concern. It is important, first, to state that Michael McMonagle's actions are utterly reprehensible, and he is being held fully accountable under the law. His crimes have inflicted significant harm on his innocent victims, and there is nothing more reprehensible than the abuse of a child.
In August 2021, when Michael McMonagle informed Sinn Féin of his arrest and questioning concerning serious criminal offences, the party took decisive action. In line with our child protection policy and human resources handbook, he was immediately suspended from party membership and his position as a press officer, with his employment terminated in June 2022 when his contract ended. I was made aware of his suspension, and I had no further contact with him.
On 14 February 2023, I attended the event in the Great Hall in support of the Donate4Dáithí campaign, hosted by the British Heart Foundation. My sole focus was on Dáithí and supporting the family to raise awareness for the campaign. I was not aware that Michael McMonagle was at that event, and I had no knowledge either that he had gained employment with the British Heart Foundation.
On Wednesday 25 September 2024, Sinn Féin and I were informed that two press offers who were former colleagues of Michael McMonagle had provided employment references for him. I am absolutely appalled and horrified that that occurred. Those references were given without the knowledge or authorisation of the party, and under no circumstances would the party have provided a reference, for work or otherwise, for McMonagle. The party took immediate action against both individuals, and their actions constituted gross misconduct, which would have resulted in their dismissal. However, as the party process was ongoing, both individuals resigned their positions and terminated their party membership with immediate effect on Saturday 28 September. On behalf of Sinn Féin, I apologise for the hurt and distress caused by their actions.
I have since also established, on Thursday of last week, that, in August 2023, following media reports of charges against McMonagle, the British Heart Foundation contacted Sinn Féin's former HR manager to verify the email address and identity of the senior press officer who had provided the reference the previous year, to which the HR manager responded. That contact from the British Heart Foundation was not brought to my attention nor to the attention of the Sinn Féin leadership at that time. That was a serious omission. Members will know that I spoke with Fearghal McKinney, head of the British Heart Foundation here, to discuss the situation. That organisation does sterling, excellent work to provide support, research and advocacy services. I am deeply sorry for the reputational damage that has been caused to the British Heart Foundation. I regret that this has happened, and I apologise for it. I look forward to a constructive working relationship with the British Heart Foundation in promoting heart health.
Finally, Mr Speaker — thank you for the latitude — I want to be very clear that the issue of child safeguarding is of paramount importance to me. I will do everything that I can to ensure that a situation like this never arises again.
Mr Speaker: Thank you, First Minister. Before I bring Members in to ask questions, I advise the House that, while I am happy to entertain robust questioning, I do not want people to get personal or any of that type of thing.
Mrs Dodds: When the Assembly was reconvened, the First Minister promised change. It appears that all that we have are changes in her story. Today, we need the truth, not the denial of responsibility. She claimed that she did not see McMonagle, but she was in a photograph in which he was standing nearby. She told the Committee that she had not spoken to the British Heart Foundation, then we saw her doing exactly that. She tried to create distance between herself and McMonagle, yet we know that she personally employed McMonagle for a short period when he appears to have been —
Mrs Dodds: — the party press officer.
First Minister, how can the people of Northern Ireland, who will not be taken for granted on this issue, have confidence when you appear not to know the facts, refuse to be fulsome in your explanation and deny responsibility, apologising only for the press officers and not for the Sinn Féin cover-up?
Mrs O'Neill: I welcome the fact that I have the opportunity to set the record straight. As Members will know, I tried to do that on Saturday with a comprehensive statement that set out exactly what I knew and when I knew it. I take my responsibility as a political leader seriously. I want to set the record straight because I want the public to be assured that safeguarding is of paramount importance to me, particularly when it comes to young children. I wanted to take the opportunity today to be clear about what I knew and when I knew it. I hope that I have been able to provide that information.
I assure you that, had I known that references had been requested for Michael McMonagle, they would not have been given. I would never have given permission for that. The two former press officers took that action and provided the references without my knowledge. Had I known, I would have stopped it. It would not have happened because I would not have tolerated that. I have no tolerance whatsoever when it comes to child protection issues. I want to set that out.
Let me also say this about the photographs that appeared last week of me attending the British Heart Foundation event in Stormont: I understand how people have taken it in the way in which they have, but I was solely focused on going to see that wee man. I was solely focused on going to support the campaign, and I was not aware of everybody else who was around me. I just want to make that clear again, but I also understand how people might take it a different way. I can only set out and account for my own actions. I want to be clear about that today.
Mr Gaston: First Minister, your party brought us the Liam Adams scandal, the Máiría Cahill scandal and the Seamus Marley scandal. Sinn Féin has now brought us the Michael McMonagle scandal. You claim that you did not see him standing in front of you at an event in this Building, despite your employing him personally in 2020. Your credibility is in tatters, but, for the sake of those who share government with you, can you assure us that no more paedophilia scandals will come out of Sinn Féin?
Mrs O'Neill: I want to give a full account, as I said, of what I knew and when I knew it. Today gives me the opportunity to do so. I tried to do that in a written statement on Saturday, and I want to do it again today because I take my responsibilities seriously when it comes to safeguarding. I am a mother and a grandmother. Of course, the issue is right up there on my list of priorities and concerns. I have set out my account of what I knew and when I knew it. I hope that that provides some assurance to the public about my role, what I understood and when I understood it. I have been as factual as I can be about everything that I now know. That is what I have put out very publicly.
Dr Aiken: I declare an interest as a safeguarding board member of a major NGO and the safeguarding governor of a school in my constituency.
First Minister, when you first employed Michael McMonagle, what due diligence did you do on his conduct in order to determine his suitability for employment? Subsequent to being informed that he was being investigated for serious offences, what safeguarding checks did you conduct in relation to any access that he may have had to children or vulnerable adults while he was in your employ?
Mrs O'Neill: I assure the Member that I took all the precautions that he does when he employs a member of staff in the Assembly. I employed him many years before this occurred. I do not make any secret of that. It is all on public record, and anybody can inspect it. The same processes that apply to the Member's staff apply to my staff.