Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Good afternoon. We are going straight to questions, if that is OK with you.

Ms Joanne McBurney (Department of Finance and Personnel): Yes, that is fine.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Are you sure?

Ms McBurney: Yes, positive.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): The first point I want to raise is the lateness of the paper. There are agreed protocols in this regard. The briefing paper was due on Wednesday 4 March but was not provided until 1.15 pm yesterday. What was the reason for that lateness?

Ms McBurney: I can only apologise for the delay. We had to pull together responses from a number of areas in DFP. Unfortunately, the time taken to do that, give consideration to the responses and get an agreed position meant that the timescale slipped. I can only apologise. It is definitely not ideal that you got the response only yesterday.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): On recommendation 3, given that the Budget has been in place since 27 January, what comment does the Department have on the overall economic impact of the budgetary reduction?

Ms McBurney: We will obviously comment on the overall impact of the public expenditure reductions, but we have not yet progressed sufficiently with our work on the impact of the individual departmental decisions. The decisions taken by each Minister will impact on the overall effect on the economy, but we have not yet progressed work on that to enable us to report on it.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Would it be fair to describe the Department's response as a laissez-faire approach? Would a strategic assessment help to inform the wider Executive?

Ms McBurney: I think we have given a strategic assessment of where we expect the public expenditure position to go over the coming years, how we face significant reductions and how we need to make decisions now to enable us to live within our constrained budget. As I said, work has not progressed beyond that. We need the outworkings of what will be happening in public restructuring and reform and within individual Departments, because the decision that those Departments take will have an impact on what areas are affected.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): On recommendation 9, what level of oversight, including challenge and monitoring, will the Department apply in relation to the other voluntary exit schemes across the public sector? Will this be important to ensuring their overall success?

Ms McBurney: Yes, I think that a level of oversight will be important. That work is being led by the public sector reform division, so I am going to ask Rachel to comment on that if that is OK.

Ms Rachel McAfee (Department of Finance and Personnel): A steering group has been set up. It is chaired by the head of the Civil Service and includes representatives from across the Departments and arm's-length bodies. The role of the group is to oversee the entire voluntary exit scheme process across the public sector beyond DFP. We, in the public sector reform division, are providing a secretariat to that group. It will be important in the roll-out and outworkings of the scheme. The group will report and make recommendations to the Executive on the allocation of funds from the transformation fund to the various Departments and bodies.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): What kind of resource will be needed for that?

Ms McAfee: For the group itself?

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Yes.

Ms McAfee: The group has had two meetings so far since January. Our team already existed within the public sector reform division, so there is no additional resource at that level.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Do members have any questions?

Mr Cree: The £133 million figure for pensions has now been reduced by about £10 million. In your response, you did not really highlight why it was not flagged up a long time ago. Why was that? It was never mentioned in the discussions we had about pensions.

Ms McBurney: Unfortunately, pensions is not our area of responsibility. However, there had been no revaluation of the pension schemes for a number of years, and it was only, I presume, when the revaluation started that they became aware that there was going to be a significant pressure.

Mr Cree: So that was not done until well into the Pensions Bill process or after it.

Mr Jeff McGuinness (Department of Finance and Personnel): That revaluation was finalised only towards the end of January or start of February, I believe. That is probably why —

Mr Cree: After the whole exercise then.

Mr J McGuinness: Yes.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Recommendation 12 states:

What criteria is the Department applying for holding the innovation labs? How will they be evaluated, and how will implementation of any recommendations be monitored and reported on?

Ms McAfee: A number of labs are scheduled to take place in 2015-16 thanks to the change fund. You mentioned 20 additional labs. The criteria will be dependent on their nature. At the moment, Departments have come forward with ideas for those labs. The criteria set by the change fund for initiatives were that they were cross-cutting and collaborative, preventative in nature and also innovative with a view to improving service delivery.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): When, and on what basis, will a decision be made on the expansion or potential expansion of the change fund beyond 2015-16?

Ms McAfee: I am not sure at this stage. It would be dependent on budgets in future years.

Ms McBurney: That could be considered as part of the next Budget process, depending on the outworkings of these allocations and the resources available.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Recommendation 13 is in regard to revenue-raising and raising additional moneys through charges. What is the timetable for assessment of the range of additional taxes for devolution, and when does the Minister plan to go to the Executive with that?

Ms McBurney: I am afraid that I am not aware; our area is not taking forward the review. I know that work is ongoing, and I would expect there to be a report soon.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): How soon?

Ms McBurney: I do not know; it is not our area.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): You have not heard anything about it at all.

Ms McBurney: To be honest, I have not seen anything on it recently.

The Chairperson (Mr McKay): Any other questions, members? Happy enough. Thank you very much.