Official Report: Minutes of Evidence

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): I welcome Colette McMaster, assistant secretary and director of food, farm and rural policy; and Astrid Stuart, head of the rural-proofing branch. I ask you to take us through the proposed amendments in sequence, please.

Mrs Colette McMaster (Department of Agriculture and Rural Development): Thank you, Chair. I will be brief this morning. Following the conclusion of the Committee's informal clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill on 14 December, the Department instructed the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) to draft the amendments agreed by the Committee, which the Minister proposes to table at Consideration Stage. Those amendments have now been drafted by the OLC and provided to the Committee. There are nine proposed amendments because some of the proposed changes require more than one amendment or consequential amendments to be made.

Four of the nine amendments that the Minister proposes to table, namely amendment Nos 1, 2, 3 and 9, relate to the proposal to change the nature of the duty in clause 1 and also to the proposal to include in the Bill the public authorities that are listed in the draft Local Government (Community Planning Partners) Order (Northern Ireland) 2015. Previously, we highlighted to the Committee that these involve changes to the policy that was previously agreed by the Executive and therefore require Executive agreement. The Minister is seeking Executive agreement to the proposed amendments and awaiting formal consideration by the Executive. I do not propose to go into detail on any of the other amendments. I just wished to draw your attention to the fact that those are the ones that require policy changes. The other amendments before you are more minor.

Before I finish, I will mention the proposed timing for the next stages in the Assembly legislative process, looking beyond Committee Stage. It is proposed that, subject to scheduling by the Business Office, Consideration Stage will take place on Monday 15 February, with Further Consideration Stage on Monday 29 February, and Final Stage on Monday 14 March. We do not have anything to add for now, but we will remain available in the Public Gallery should any questions arise during the Committee's formal clause-by-clause consideration.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): Do members have any questions before the officials go back to the Public Gallery?

Mr McMullan: Could you give me those dates again?

Mrs McMaster: Yes. Subject to scheduling by the Business Office, the proposed dates are for Consideration Stage on Monday 15 February, with Further Consideration Stage on Monday 29 February, and Final Stage on Monday 14 March.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): When are amendment Nos 1, 2, 3 and 9 going to the Executive for approval?

Mrs McMaster: The Minister is seeking Executive agreement to those amendments and they are currently under consideration by Ministers. As I indicated, it is proposed that Consideration Stage be on 15 February. The deadline for tabling amendments would be 9.30 am on 10 February if that is the date. The Minister hopes to have Executive agreement before that.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): If the Executive did not agree to the amendments, that would scupper the whole thing. Is that correct?

Mrs McMaster: Well, that is where we are, and that is what the Minister is proposing to do. These are the amendments that the Committee agreed and that she has agreed to support. She is moving forward on the basis that she hopes to have agreement to allow the process to continue on those dates.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): That is OK. Thank you.

We will move on. There are nine amendments. Some of the proposed changes require more than one amendment or for consequential amendments to be made. The proposed amendments can be found in your tabled papers.

When we consider the amendments and the clauses, I will put the Question that the clause is agreed, subject to the amendments presented, which still require the approval of the Northern Ireland Executive. That is the formal position that the Committee report will reflect. However, the Committee will, at its meeting on 26 January, hear whether the amendments have been considered and agreed by the Executive. We can make further decisions on what we might want to do at that stage.

Members should note that the Committee now needs to reach final agreement on the aforementioned amendments before it undertakes its formal clause-by-clause decision-making today. Therefore, I propose to structure the meeting as follows. We will consider the amendments as tabled today, and agree them or otherwise. Once that is done, we will commence our formal clause-by-clause consideration. If that is clear, we will now consider the 12 amendments.

I will turn first to the amendments around the issue of due regard. The Committee agreed that it required amendments to strengthen the duty by removing "consider" and replacing it with "have due regard to". This will entail an amendment to the long title and an amendment to clause 1(1). The wording of these amendments can be found in your tabled papers. They are numbered as amendment Nos 1 and 2. Both of those amendments are subject to approval by the Executive. Are members content with amendment Nos 1 and 2, subject to approval by the Executive?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The second set of amendments are to add to the list of public bodies that fall under the remit of the Bill. Those are the bodies currently listed in the draft Local Government (Community Planning Partners) Order (Northern Ireland) 2015. The Committee considered and agreed that list at its meeting on 8 December. The Committee also agreed that it was seeking amendments to allow that list to be reviewed. The amendments proposed by the Department will do this by amending clause 1(2) to indicate that "public authorities" means those bodies listed in the schedule to the Bill. That is amendment No 3 in your tabled papers.

The schedule is the subject of another and separate amendment that will name Northern Ireland Departments, district councils, and the list agreed by the Committee based on the draft Local Government (Community Planning Partners) Order (Northern Ireland) 2015. That is amendment No 9 in your tabled papers.

There will also be an amendment that will insert a new subsection (2A) before clause 1(3) to allow a review of at least three years of the bodies listed in the schedule. That is amendment No 4 in your tabled papers.

There will be an amendment adding a new subsection (4A) to be inserted between clause 1(4) and clause 1(5) to allow for the transitional provisions. That is amendment No 5 in your tabled papers.

The wording of all those amendments can be found in your tabled papers. All the amendments are subject to approval by the Executive. Are members content with amendment No 3, subject to its approval by the Executive?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): Are members content with amendment No 4, subject to its approval by the Executive?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): Are members content with amendment No 5, subject to its approval by the Executive?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): Are members content with amendment No 9, which is the new schedule, subject to its approval by the Executive?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): There is an amendment to clause 2 that changes the wording from, "The Department may take such steps" to "The Department must take such steps". That is amendment No 6 in your tabled papers. Are members content with amendment No 6?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The Committee agreed to seek an amendment to ensure that the Minister makes an annual statement to the Assembly on the proposed report. The Minister agreed and also proposed that the annual report be published. There are two amendments to clause 3. The first adds the words, "and publish" to clause 3(2). There is also a new subsection (2A) after clause 3(2) that provides that the Minister must make a statement. The wording of those amendments can be found in your tabled papers. They are amendment Nos 7 and 8. Are members content with amendment Nos 7 and 8?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): No amendments were proposed to clauses 4, 5, 6 or 7. The new schedule to the Bill has been discussed and agreed during our consideration of the amendments to clause 1.

We are now in a position to proceed with formal clause-by-clause consideration. I advise members that the Committee will be taking a formal vote on each clause. The options available to the Committee are as follows: first, to agree that the Committee is content with the clause; secondly, to agree that the Committee is content with the clause as amended; and, thirdly, to agree that the Committee is not content with the clause and either vote that it is not content or agree that a Committee amendment is required.

If a member is not happy with something and wants to vote against the clause or propose an amendment, they will need Committee agreement. For a Committee amendment, they need to be very clear about what they do not like about the current clause and what the policy objective is or what they want to amend to do that. Members will know that they always have the option as MLAs to table their own amendments to the Bill. The Bill Office staff will assist with that. If that is clear, we can now start the formal part of our proceedings.

Mr McCarthy: Chair, can you hammer on without me? I have to go.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): No. We need five members. Can you stay for a wee while and hope that someone else arrives soon?

Mr McCarthy: OK. Go ahead. Hammer on.

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The Committee has just considered a series of amendments to strengthen the duty by removing "consider" and replacing it with "have due regard to". The Committee also requested an amendment to add the public bodies listed in the draft Local Government (Community Planning Partners) Order (Northern Ireland) 2015 to the Bill and to allow that list to be reviewed. Is the Committee content to amend clause 1 as per the wording of the departmental amendments, which are subject to Executive approval?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The Committee has just considered an amendment to change the clause by requesting that the word "may" be replaced with "must". The proposed amendment to the clause can be found in the tabled papers pack. Is the Committee content to amend clause 2 as per the wording of the departmental amendment?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The Committee has considered amendments so that a provision is added requiring the Minister to make an annual statement to the Assembly on the report compiled by the Department under clause 3(2) and that the report be published. The proposed amendments to clause 3 can be found in the tabled papers pack. Is the Committee content to amend clause 3 as per the wording of the departmental amendments?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The schedule is the subject of an amendment that lists the bodies that will fall under the remit of the Bill. We agreed this when we agreed the amendments to clause 1. Is the Committee content with the amendment to provide a schedule as per the wording of the departmental amendment?

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): The long title will be amended to reflect the amendments to clause 1 to remove "consider" and insert "have due regard to".

The Chairperson (Mr Irwin): That concludes the clause-by-clause scrutiny of the Rural Needs Bill. The Committee staff will now draft a Committee report for consideration and approval by the Committee on 19 January.