Official Report: Tuesday 08 October 2024

Mr Speaker: The usual rules apply.

Mr Gildernew: I draw to Members' attention a very important issue, on this week, which is Baby Loss Awareness Week, and, obviously, a heart-rending situation for many of our families. One particular angle that I want to address this morning is paediatric pathology; that is, post-mortems on children lost to miscarriage or stillbirth or in the immediate days after birth.

In February 2019, the last of our paediatric pathology consultants retired, leaving no service here. It was stated at the time that, as an interim measure, families would be able to take their children to Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool. While that has been something that families have had to avail themselves of, there has been no move to address the situation on a broader basis here in the North. It is estimated that up to 240 families a year could be making that horrendous journey across the water with their child's body.

Last year, I met the children's paediatric cardiology service in Dublin, which the Speaker was involved in instating. It was explained to me that, in order to run a full paediatric pathology service, you need four consultants. That is to allow people time for training, to fill rotas, to allow for leave and to cover emergency care. To run a rota of that extent requires a population of six million people. That will tell us clearly what the problem is and where the solution lies. I raised the issue at the North/South Inter-Parliamentary Association meeting, which some of my colleagues attended. To me, we must look at this as a matter of urgency now on an all-island basis.

One of my neighbours took that very sad journey last year. When she travelled across, she dreaded the thought of whether she would even be allowed to bring her child's body home with her: she did not even know that. At a time when families are at their lowest ebb, we are, essentially, forcing them on to planes if they want to find out what happened.

I will raise the issue with the Health Minister — I raised it repeatedly with the previous Minister of Health — and I will urge him and everyone here to consider how we can move the issue forward and prevent 1,200 — perhaps, approaching 1,500 — of our families having to make that unacceptable journey.

Mr Martin: The recent appointment of two senior members of the Alliance Party, Stephen Farry and Jodie Carson — who was formerly the special adviser to the AERA Minister — as Ulster University professors, to a newly created strategic policy unit, with salaries of circa £80,000 a year, has caused significant concern. Those posts were not advertised but, instead, were drawn from the university's exceptional talent pool (ETP). You may not have heard of the exceptional talent pool before. I had not and, in fact, before last week, neither had the Equality Commission.

I found a document that outlined the ETP. It states:

I will leave it to Members to decide whether they deem Dr Farry or Dr Carson to be "world-class" in the field of academia.

There are legitimate questions for a number of parties to answer, the first of which is for the Alliance Party. When did the conversations between those two senior Alliance Party members and Ulster University start, given the fact that, five months ago, one appointee was an Alliance MP and, one month ago, the other was the Alliance special adviser to the AERA Minister? Were any Alliance Party members involved in Ulster University's selection process? There are questions, too, for the university's vice-chancellor (VC), Paul Bartholomew, who, ultimately, signed off on those appointments. I asked for a meeting with the VC, but he declined. I thought that that was strange, given the fact that one of Ulster University's value statements is:

Personally, I think that you would need either an excavator or dynamite to find any transparency in this process.

Some of the questions that I would like to ask the VC are as follows. When were Dr Farry and Dr Carson added to the exceptional talent pool? Did anyone involved in the recruitment process declare a conflict of interest? What was the compelling case that no one else in Northern Ireland or the UK could fulfil those two roles? Who was involved in the final decision to employ those individuals? Given the fact that the VC's commitment to transparency does not seem to include meeting public representatives, I hope that he has a good FOI team, because I intend to keep it extraordinarily busy.

I encourage anyone in Northern Ireland or in the British Isles who feels that they would have liked to apply for those two positions but could not to contact the Equality Commission as soon as possible in order to lodge a complaint. I would certainly be more than willing to help them in that process. The lawfulness of the approach should concern everyone in the Chamber, because it runs a cart and horses through the merit principle.

Mr Mathison: All Members will be aware of the terrible incident yesterday involving a bus that overturned while travelling from Strangford Integrated College. I should put on record that I have a child who attends the school and was in the bus behind.

First, my thoughts are with all those who have been affected and with the wider school community at this extremely difficult time. It is a miracle that we are not dealing with a fatality or fatalities today in our reflections on the incident. When we all saw the news footage yesterday, we all feared the worst, so we should be very grateful that we are not dealing with an absolute tragedy this morning as we discuss the incident.

I put on record my thanks to all the emergency services — the PSNI, the Ambulance Service and the Fire and Rescue Service — which responded so quickly and professionally to a rapidly emerging major incident. From what I can understand, they dealt with students who were in severe distress with kindness, compassion and professionalism, ensuring that any serious injuries were dealt with as quickly as possible.

I also pay tribute to the pupils at the scene who exited other buses and comforted some of the pupils who were in distress. They really are a credit to their schools and families, and it is important to put that on the record. [Interruption.]

The coming days will be difficult for the school and all those associated with the school. The Education Authority (EA) will be there to provide support today and in the days to come. I urge any pupils who were impacted on by the incident to take up the offer of help and support. However, there are pupils still in hospital receiving treatment. I send my best wishes — I am sure that all Members would wish to join me in that — for a full recovery to them and anyone who sustained injuries. It is very welcome that we are not discussing life-threatening injuries, but we should keep those who are in hospital, and their worried families, in our thoughts.

The full background and context of what took place yesterday will be subject to investigation by the PSNI, Translink and, potentially, the EA, but that is not for our discussion today. The Assembly should be clear in expressing its solidarity with and support for all those who were impacted on. I also thank the school staff who worked tirelessly to late into the evening to set up a critical incident room and provide support for affected pupils and families. I reiterate that my thoughts and best wishes are with all those impacted on. I put on record my thanks to everybody, including the members of the public, who helped at the scene.

Mr Crawford: I congratulate my former colleagues at Wrightbus on securing a landmark deal to supply more than 1,000 buses to the Go-Ahead Group over the next three years. The deal, which is the largest in the company's 78-year history, will see hundreds of Go-Ahead buses built each year, for the next three years, at Wrightbus' Ballymena headquarters.

It is a deal marked by the hard work and commitment that will, undoubtedly, shape the future of the recently named fastest-growing bus manufacturer in the UK. That accomplishment is not just a testament to Wrightbus' exceptional products and services but a reflection of the relentless determination and passion that each member of its workforce puts forth every day. Winning the order is a testament to the trust and confidence that Wrightbus customers have in the company, and underscores the exceptional quality and innovation that Wrightbus consistently delivers. The major order is a win for not just Wrightbus; it is a win for everyone who believes in its vision and mission. The road to success is often filled with challenges but, with perseverance and teamwork, Wrightbus has triumphed. This achievement will not only enhance its reputation in the market but open doors to new opportunities, collaborations and growth.

Congratulations once again. The hard work has paid off, and I cannot wait to see what the future holds for Wrightbus.

Mr McGrath: Mr Speaker, apologies for my phone making noises during Nick's speech.

I would like to speak on BBC NI's regrettable decision to withdraw sign language from its lunchtime news broadcast. While no doubt well intentioned, the decision sends an adverse message to the nearly 110,000 people who are deaf or hearing impaired, many of whom rely on sign language to communicate. Those who are deaf or hearing impaired and continue to pay the licence fee no longer have the same opportunity to access news as those who do not rely on sign language.

Approximately 6% of our population are registered as deaf, with BSL as their primary language. As a result of the Communications Act 2003, broadcasters in the UK have a legal obligation to provide at least 5% of content in sign language, yet BBC NI has now set a precedent whereby those who are deaf or hearing impaired cannot access their news at the same time as hearing people can. I have written to the director of BBC NI to request that that decision be reversed and those 90 seconds of sign language be returned to the end of the BBC NI lunchtime news broadcast.

There is also a compelling argument to be made to the Communities Minister, who has yet to publish the long-awaited sign language Bill, which would enshrine into law the right of deaf and hearing-impaired people to access services in one's own language, whether British Sign Language or Irish Sign Language.

This place often apportions great volumes of time and energy to addressing matters of language and identity, yet we do not see that same time and energy go into supporting people who are deaf or hearing impaired. Those who are deaf or hearing impaired often face negative perceptions and inequalities as a result of the design of their environment. Surely we owe it to them not to place obstacles in their way. Rather, we should recognise their needs and respond to them so that they can enjoy as full and purposeful a life as possible. That begins with their ability to access the news of the day in their own language. I therefore urge the BBC to restore what is a vital service for the almost 110,000 deaf and hearing-impaired people across our society.

Mr Bradley: I congratulate Ballywillan Flute Band from just outside Portrush. It celebrated its 140th anniversary with a special event at the Lodge Hotel in Coleraine on Saturday evening. In recognition of its anniversary, the band presented commemorative medals to current and past members and lapel pins and key rings to their guests.

It is wonderful to see such a long-standing tradition, spanning 140 years, being celebrated. Ballywillan Flute Band has a rich history, dating back to its formation in 1884. Over the years, it has become a significant part of the local community, participating in numerous parades, concerts and community events. The band is known for its dedication to musical excellence and community service. It is a regular fixture during the SuperCupNI and other community events. The band's commitment to its community and its musical traditions has made it a beloved institution in the Portrush area and further afield.

It features a variety of instruments from the flute family — the piccolo, the G treble flute, the C flute, which is the most common in use in the band, the G alto flute, the C bass flute and the contrabass flute — to enhance the band's sound depth. Those instruments contribute to the band's rich and dynamic musical performances, in which it plays a diverse range of music, including traditional marches and classical pieces. The band also plays contemporary music and modern pieces, thus adding a fresh touch to its performances. Its music selection helps it to connect with a wide audience, from traditionalists to those who enjoy more contemporary sounds.

To the band officers, committee members and band members, I offer my congratulations on their vast musical repertoire and wish them continued success as they nudge closer to their 150th anniversary.

Mrs Guy: I will use my time to articulate on behalf of the residents of Dromara their frustration, anxiety and sense of simply having been forgotten about when it comes to flooding in the village.

Last night, I attended a community meeting with Sorcha Eastwood MP that was facilitated by Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council to establish, or rather re-establish, a resilience group to respond and react to any flooding event that may occur this year. That follows dreadful floods last year that saw raw sewage enter homes and businesses in the village. Confidence is low in the community that any meaningful preventative work has been carried out to protect them from a reoccurrence this year. I am grateful to NI Water officials for meeting me and a local business owner on Friday. It confirmed that there are capacity issues in the system, which is struggling to cope with new connections from housebuilding in the area.

The maintenance of the river is also a concern. Assessments and reports show flooding to have been an issue in Dromara as far back as 1997. The flooding risk is known. A commitment to upgrade and tackle those issues definitively has not been forthcoming, however. The idea that incidents can be written off as resulting from one-off or freak weather events is no longer tenable. A BBC article from July this year confirms that evidence shows:

That certainly reflects the experience in Dromara.

I know that all representatives for the area share my concern and that of residents that the village is being left in a vulnerable position. I know that they will join me in asking the Minister for Infrastructure to work with NI Water and DFI Rivers, first, to prioritise necessary short-term works to help manage flood risk in the area this winter and, secondly and more importantly, to commit to making the necessary capital investment in Dromara to ensure a long-term, sustainable solution to the problem.

Mr Brett: Following answers given by the First Minister in the House yesterday being contradicted by information that has been released by the Assembly authorities, I have serious questions that Sinn Féin can no longer duck. Those include questions on the possible misappropriation of public funds; the accuracy of official financial documentation and paperwork submitted to the Assembly; and, indeed, the possibility that the House was misled.

On the first question, the misappropriation of public of funds, the First Minister, in the House and in public statements, has consistently described Michael McMonagle as a Sinn Féin press officer. Information released yesterday by the Assembly contradicts that. To quote the Assembly spokesperson:

The rules for MLAs employing staff are very clear. All Members of the House are required to follow part 4 of the Assembly Members (Salaries and Expenses) Determination (Northern Ireland) 2016, as amended by the Assembly Members (Salaries and Expenses) (Amendment) Determination (Northern Ireland) 2020, which makes it clear that staff employed by MLAs cannot engage in party political activity and that our political parties cannot benefit from that funding. If Mr McMonagle was a Sinn Féin press officer as the First Minister claims that he was, while he was being paid as a full-time constituency worker, that would be a clear breach of Assembly rules.

Each year, all Members are required to sign the MF12 form, of which Members will be aware. That form clearly states that we, as MLAs, have abided by the determination. The First Minister, Michelle O'Neill, will have signed that form in April 2020 when she employed Mr McMonagle on a full-time basis. Jemma Dolan MLA will have signed it in April 2021 and April 2022 when Mr McMonagle was in her full-time employment. How could that form have been signed correctly if it was claimed that he was an MLA support staff worker, when, as the First Minister made clear to the House, he was a Sinn Féin press officer?

On the serious issue of misleading the House, the First Minister stated that Sinn Féin suspended Mr McMonagle from its employment. How could Sinn Féin suspend Mr McMonagle when he was not an employee of Sinn Féin? The Assembly record is clear that he was an employee of Jemma Dolan MLA. It would have been her job to suspend him, as political parties have no role in the appointment or dismissal of staff.

The First Minister was clearly not accurate in her answers to the House yesterday and needs to come forward immediately to correct the record.

Mr Stewart: I speak on behalf of the many thousands of people across Northern Ireland who currently live on unadopted roads, streets and developments. Across my constituency of East Antrim, and across Northern Ireland, thousands of people are stuck in limbo without the basic provisions that most of us take for granted. They are living in the absence of street lights, sewerage services, road repairs and, often, bin collection; the list goes on, and the frustration of those residents grows.

The reasons for that are often multifaceted but invariably involve housing developers either going bust or simply not completing work to the required standard before they move on. That leaves residents in a dreadful position, unable to access the basic services that they pay rates for and stuck in the middle of a convoluted legal process between the developer and the Department for Infrastructure. It also invariably impacts on the price of the house that they paid so much for and, often, on their ability to sell that property. Some owners in my constituency bought their houses in good faith over 15 years ago and are still without access to street lighting and functioning sewerage facilities. That story is replicated across Northern Ireland. Rather than getting better, the situation is getting worse. A 2012 report by the Regional Development Committee showed that there were over 2,500 instances. I understand that that has increased in the past decade, rather than having got better. Clearly, the system is not working, and people are paying the price.

The bond that DFI demands from a developer before work on a new housing development starts is meant to act as an incentive for developers to complete the work on time and to standard, but that incentive simply is not working or is not working enough. I raised the matter with the Infrastructure Minister at last week's meeting of the Infrastructure Committee. I am glad to see that he is looking into it, but I believe that we need a two-pronged approach. First, we need to look at all outstanding developments across Northern Ireland, create a plan to bring them up to standard and then adopt them. If that means taking legal action and being harsh with former developers, whatever their current situation, then so be it. That needs to be done in collaboration with departmental officials in Northern Ireland. Secondly, there needs to be a full review of the bond system to ensure that it will cover the works that need to be carried out should a developer not do them. Bonds are meant to be in place to do that, but, again, invariably that is not happening, and people are being left in limbo.

I also suggest that we look at banning developers who serially offend. For a homeowner who has bought a house from a developer and is unable to access services, there is nothing more annoying than seeing the same developer start a new project 100 yards down the road while they are left wondering when they will get access to the services that they are paying for through their rates. If that requires legislative change, I hope that the Minister will do something about that, but we need to do everything that we can in the House to represent those residents.

Ms Hunter: October 11 will mark the International Day of the Girl. So many children, girls and boys, in the Middle East do not have a childhood. They live every day in fear amid the ongoing conflict. Yesterday marked the one-year anniversary of the heinous atrocities on October 7 2023, when 1,200 people were violently murdered in utterly barbaric circumstances and 251 were taken hostage. Many of us across the House will stand in solidarity with those families who seek the immediate release of their loved ones. However, the scorched-earth strategy that has been unleashed by Israel since then is absolutely unforgivable, forcing Palestinians to run from death towards death in what is now a hopeless, post-apocalyptic landscape where the entire population has been displaced. Over 40,000 people are dead, which includes the slaughter of 16,000 innocent young children. It is a collective punishment on a population that has been demonised as "human animals".

Not satisfied with the misery that it has wreaked on the people of Gaza, Israel has opened up yet another war front. It has invaded the sovereign nation of Lebanon and now threatens an all-out war in the Middle East of biblical proportions. With over 1,000 rocket attacks a day, the bombing of densely populated civilian areas means that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have already claimed the lives of 2,000 people in the past week. The terror inflicted on Lebanon through lethal bunker bombs has traumatised a population; ended children's education; destroyed roads, thereby preventing evacuation to Syria; killed emergency service workers; and displaced over one million innocent people, with ordinary families sleeping on the streets in fear for their lives. Now, the IDF is threatening the safety of our Irish soldiers and other UN peacekeepers. That is categorically unacceptable. Enough truly is enough.

Under international law, punitive action against civilians is forbidden. I am appealing to the humanity of all Members across the House to condemn the actions of Israel, stand with the people of Gaza and stand with the ordinary people of Lebanon. We must push for a diplomatic solution, call for an immediate ceasefire and join President Macron's call to stop selling weapons to Israel. That must be honoured. If not, I fear that the continued actions of Israel threaten an all-out major war in the Middle East. In addition, the failure of Western politicians to adequately condemn and call out that behaviour risks the complete collapse of humanitarian norms and the sanctity of international law.

I have to reiterate the anger and resentment that I feel towards the US and UK politicians who have stayed silent and abstained on the matter out of narcissistic aims and self-interest. Although we are a devolved institution, I reiterate to all Members that we have a moral and ethical duty to call out those atrocities and put innocent children at the forefront of our minds when we are decision-making.

Mr Harvey: Members will have seen the events unfold yesterday evening on Ballyblack Road East near Carrowdore, where a major incident was declared following a crash involving a school bus.

A bus carrying over 40 pupils from Strangford Integrated College left the road shortly after 4.00 pm. All our thoughts are with the four pupils who were hospitalised following the incident and with their friends and families. We wish them all a speedy recovery following what will have been a horrifying ordeal for them. I pay tribute to all the first responders who attended the scene yesterday afternoon and mobilised the incident centre at the school.

The Education Minister will visit the school community today, and there will be a focus on ensuring that students can avail themselves of counselling services and trauma response services through the Education Authority's critical incident response team.

There will, obviously, need to be an investigation of the incident, but, in the meantime, our thoughts and prayers are with all those involved and the wider Strangford Integrated College community.

Mr Honeyford: I want to take a minute to highlight the success of another Lagan Valley sports team and congratulate Dromara GAC on its season. It won the league in the summer and is now through to the championship final on Friday night. Sport has the ability to unite our community like nothing else. When you add a bit of success to that, the excitement and hope that build in a community can be incredible. Dromara GAC encapsulates those inclusive values, and it is there for everyone to see. The club replicates the united community values of the majority who live around Finnis in the Dromara area. Thus, it offers a friendly welcome to anyone who wants to get involved in and play Gaelic games. I have close friends who, like me, were not born into the GAA tradition but have, like me, got involved in their local club in recent years. They have not only been welcomed but have become an integral part of the club, inviting other friends and building community. That is what a united community looks like.

Last Sunday, the club held a community breakfast that I had the privilege of attending. It was just brilliant. It was packed. Well done to everyone who made that happen. I thank the players, the committee and the volunteers who have put so much effort into building a thriving club on a day-to-day and week-to-week basis over many years. We talk about and debate issues in the Chamber: for example, we will question the Economy Minister later. It is really important, however, to remember whom this is all for and to have our local community at the front and centre of everything that we do. I congratulate Dromara GAC on its journey thus far this season. The Alliance team wishes you all the very best for Friday night.

Mr Speaker: You have one minute, Mr Brooks.

Mr Brooks: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I rise to mark 30 years of the Washington Ireland Program. What began three decades ago as an initiative to cultivate leaders for a brighter future in Northern Ireland has blossomed into a remarkable journey that has impacted on many lives and helped to foster many strong relationships across communities, across the border and across the Atlantic. For 30 years, the programme has provided young people with more than just an opportunity to learn. It has empowered young people to grow into leaders in a variety of fields with courage, vision and a great sense of what it is to serve.

What makes the programme so unique is its proven ability to bridge the divides between a spectrum of diverse upbringings and perspectives by recognising but not seeking to change diverging political aspirations for this place; rather, it builds relationships and understanding across those perspectives. It has given me and many others a far more diverse network of friends and contacts across these islands and beyond than I would otherwise have had at that stage in my life. It honed an ability to speak up for my community and articulate my beliefs whilst listening to those with a genuinely different story and perspective.

My time is short, and I had more to say, but I want to record my thanks and those of all the alumni to the host families, those who hosted internships for the programme and, most of all, the programme's founder, Carol Wheeler. Her impact on many hundreds, if not thousands, of lives through the programme is remarkable. We give thanks for that today.

Mr Speaker: I ask Members to take their ease while we move to the next item of business.

Ms Kimmins (The Chairperson of the Committee for Health): I beg to move

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for this debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and up to 10 minutes to making a winding-up speech. All other Members will have up to five minutes.

Ms Kimmins: Let me begin by first acknowledging that the scale and magnitude of the challenges in children's social care services are well rehearsed and widely accepted. The pressures and challenges that exist in the provision of children's social care services predate the damaging impact that the COVID pandemic has had. Indeed, in the independent review of children's social care services, Professor Ray Jones, who led the review, observed that the difficulties in children's social care services were both "systemic and endemic".

The report outlined that children's social care statistics showed that, on 31 March 2023, 22,875 children in the North were known to social services as a child in need; 2,171 children were listed on the child protection register; and 3,801 children and young people were in care. We understand from a recent written briefing from the Department that the latest unpublished figures show that the number of children in care has risen since March 2023, and the figure now sits at 4,134. That is an increase of almost 9% in just 18 months. Growing demand for services, increasing complexity of need and serious workforce-related pressures, including high levels of staff vacancy and high absence rates, all add pressure to an already struggling service, and, without a workforce, no plans will be deliverable.

At our meeting on 21 March this year, the Committee was extremely concerned to hear from Department of Health officials that, at the end of January 2024, there was a combined vacancy/absence rate of 358 social workers across the five trusts. One of the most alarming consequences of that is that a total of 1,479 cases were still waiting to be allocated to a social worker: that is 1,479 children. Following that, when the Committee met representatives of NIPSA in June this year, we heard harrowing reports of how matters had deteriorated further since the publication of the review report. That included reports of instances in trusts of no existing social work teams, children not having a social worker assigned to them and, in other trusts, social work teams operating with a less than 50% complement of staff. The Committee agreed that the situation puts children and staff at immense risk and cannot continue, and we subsequently wrote to the Health Minister to ask that that be addressed as a matter of urgency.

The Health Committee knows from its meetings and contact with children's stakeholders that our services are overwhelmed and struggle to meet the demand. It is therefore unsurprising that the independent review of children's social care services carried out by Professor Jones found that we have a higher rate of children being referred to children's services than England, Scotland and Wales; a higher proportion of children in need of help; a higher proportion of children with child protection plans in place; and a record number of children in care. None of that is anything to be proud of.

I put on record the Health Committee's appreciation for the work of Professor Jones, his advisory panel and the secretariat that was involved in carrying out the review of children's social care services. The report, which was published in June 2023, was the culmination of 16 months of endeavour that included wide consultation and engagement across the children's social care sector. It is very evident from the review report that the contribution of the children, young people, parents, carers and social care workers with whom Professor Jones engaged heavily shaped the review's conclusions and recommendations. Professor Jones and the children's organisations that we have heard from emphasised that children and young people want to be involved and engaged in the ongoing outworkings of the review. We ask the Minister to ensure that his Department makes that commitment going forward.

In June this year, Professor Jones briefed the Committee on the findings of the review. His passion to see the review recommendations taken forward to effect real change was evident to Committee members. The report contains 53 recommendations. Whilst the majority of the recommendations fall within the responsibility of the Department of Health, the Committee recognises that a number of recommendations cross into the policy responsibility of other Departments. A number of the recommendations are significant, including recommendation 7, which is to establish a region-wide children and families arm's-length body, and recommendation 39, which is to appoint a Minister for children and families.

The Department has acknowledged that the review report provides a robust road map that will facilitate improvement and deliver better outcomes for some of the most vulnerable children and young people in our society. The Department also accepts that change will create the conditions that encourage social workers and social care workers into a career in children's social care. The Committee agrees, and that is why we have made children's social care services a priority in and a focus of our work programme. As a Committee, we believe that we can use our role to maintain focus, emphasis and pressure to ensure that the reform that is needed is progressed by the Department. The Committee can think of no better priority than to support the changes that will improve the lives of our most vulnerable children and families. We welcome the establishment of the Department's children's social care services strategic reform programme and commend the Department for progressing that in advance of the review's conclusion in order to begin to strategically address the range of challenges that evidently exist in children's social care.

At our meeting on 26 September, the Committee noted the most recent update on the work that the reform programme has undertaken since its establishment in April last year, including actions that relate to nine programme work streams. However, as individual members and as a Committee, we have been advised by children's social care stakeholders that the impact of the programme of work is not yet being felt by those on the ground who work directly with children and their families. Professor Jones shared with the Committee his frustration at the slow rate of progress when he briefed us in June.

At last week's Committee meeting, we heard from representatives of the Reimagine Children's Collective. The collective is a collaboration of 10 charities working with children and young people and their families. Its goal is to advocate for the implementation of the independent review's recommendations. I thank the collective's representatives for attending last week's meeting and for laying out, in sometimes stark terms, the urgent need for transformation and reform.

It is important to emphasise that, despite the challenges described, the organisations that we heard from believe that transformation is possible and that it is possible to make lasting change. We ask the Minister to commit to driving forward the change that is needed with urgency. The most vulnerable children in our society deserve better. Delay has a profound impact, and change will come too late for many of the young people who need our support. That was heard loud and clear from the review findings.

I want to emphasise that the Health Committee does not underestimate the extent of the changes required to transform children's social care services, but the time for change is now. When Professor Jones briefed the Health Committee in June, he said something that resonated with the Committee about the need to drive forward real and tangible change:

We all know that reform is needed. Professor Jones's report makes that point clearly. We now need to progress that reform at pace.

In the motion, the Committee calls for the Minister to work collaboratively with the community and voluntary sector, which knows the needs of children and young people. Organisations and charities in the sector were the constant in the lives of those children and families. While social workers were challenged and overstretched and changed frequently, the community and voluntary sector was there in the difficult times. We need to utilise the expertise, innovation and agility of the community and voluntary sector to respond to the needs of our most vulnerable children and families.

The Health Committee implores the Minister to take the action that is needed to bring about meaningful and lasting change. As Professor Jones recommends in his report:

That action needs to be taken without drift or delay.

I look forward to the debate today. I commend the motion to the House.

Mr Robinson: I begin by thanking Professor Ray Jones, the author of the independent review of children's social services. It is also important to recognise the three experts who assisted: Marie Roulston OBE, Judge Patricia Smyth and Professor Pat Dolan. I commend the thorough work undertaken by the review team. Their efforts have provided a road map that contains 53 recommendations and has been informed by the lived experiences of children, young people, families, carers and those working in our care services. We thank them all for their input.

The welfare and protection of vulnerable children and families is certainly paramount. Those individuals rely on us and look to us for leadership, protection and action in the Chamber. It is a duty, both moral and legislative, to ensure that children are not left behind and that every family has access to the support it needs in times of difficulty.

The review of children's social care services report, published in June 2023, exposed the many challenges. It was a comprehensive evidence-based analysis that pointed to the weaknesses in our current system of services. Crucially, it also outlines a clear and actionable path forward. However, a report — there are many in our health service — no matter how well-written or researched, is only as effective as the actions that it inspires.

The Minister may view this as me challenging him unfairly, but I assure him that I do not; indeed, I welcome that it is recognised in his Department that the pace of reform needs to quicken. I also recognise that, ahead of the review being published, a strategic reform programme was established, a delivery plan is in place and that some additional funding has been made available to support the nine work streams in the plan. We welcome the quarterly updates to the Committee on this topic. However, as was said in the Health Committee recently, it feels as though another tier has been piled on another tier. Those at the heart of children's services just want the recommendations implemented. They want structural change because, as it stands, children are surviving but not thriving.

We hope that, today, we will receive a more detailed timeline for the implementation of the review's recommendations and specifically for those on waiting lists, fostering and workforce, which are heavily weighted among the 34 recommendations that the Department has accepted. It will be helpful to have a clear and accountable timeline that ensures that the reforms are enacted with adequate resources and funding.

I recognise that, without the necessary financial and human resources, any reform may remain aspirational at best. It is welcome that, so far in 2024, health trusts have recruited 200 new social workers. It is important that they are retained and not lost to other jurisdictions and that they have the skills mix to help address the wider issues in social care.

It is recognised that, whilst the review's recommendations fall within the Department of Health, this is not just a matter for that Department. A recent letter briefing to the Health Committee detailed that the Health Minister had written to the Education, Justice and First Ministers, highlighting the need for cross-departmental support. I will welcome the Minister's response to the outcome of that correspondence, and I would like to know when he expects to make a further announcement to the Assembly, especially around what many see as a key recommendation that calls for an arm's-length body for children and families. We have been told that, without that, the review becomes just a collection of recommendations. Effective reform of children's social care requires a collaborative cross-sector approach. We must remember that our ultimate goal is not merely to address systemic issues but to deliver improved, sustainable care for vulnerable children and families.

A child who is supported today becomes an adult who contributes to society tomorrow, but, when we fail, those consequences reverberate through generations. Therefore, it is imperative that the welfare and protection of children remain priorities, not just today but every day and in every decision that we make as a devolved Assembly. The children, the families and the supporting organisations count on all of us, and they deserve nothing less than a full commitment to a brighter, safer and more supportive future. We often hear in the House about the costs of reform: in this case, we need to hear more about the costs of not reforming.

Miss McAllister: I am so glad to get the opportunity to speak on the motion. Our children's social care services have been at crisis point for some time, and it is vital that they are given the platform that they rightly deserve. All children in Northern Ireland supported by the social care sector are our future. Every child deserves the very best in life, and, where that has not been possible, they deserve the very best support and response from the state. As the Chair of the Health Committee stated, there are over 4,100 children in care in Northern Ireland. My constituency of North Belfast is one of the worst-affected, with one in 20 young people in care in one ward in particular. That means that at least one child in every classroom in that area is in some form of care, whether it is residential, kinship or foster.

It has been over 400 days since Professor Jones published his review of the services. That is 400 days since we have had meaningful action on its implementation. This is a priority not only for me as an Alliance health spokesperson but for every spokesperson across the Committee. However, people have been working on the issue long before anyone on the Committee brought it to the Chamber today, and I pay special tribute to Professor Ray Jones. We had the privilege of hearing from him at the Committee, where he expressed concerns at the lack of movement since the 53 recommendations were published. Since then, we have also had the consultation and publication of the consultation responses.

As my Committee colleagues have done, I pay tribute to the work of the Reimagine Children's Collective for everything that it has done in amplifying the voices of young people and ensuring that evidence is heard on what is working and what is not. Voice Of Young People In Care (VOYPIC), Children in NI, Include Youth, the Fostering Network, Action for Children, Barnardo’s, the NSPCC and the British Association of Social Workers (BASW) also want to see reform implemented urgently.

Ms Mulholland: Will the Member take an intervention?

Miss McAllister: Yes.

Ms Mulholland: Does the Member agree that, so often, those amazing community and voluntary sector organisations have to plug the gaps where our statutory services fail?

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Member has an extra minute.

Miss McAllister: Absolutely. I agree. They do so on a shoestring budget at times, focusing on fundraising and, at the same time, making sure that the children are their priority.

Most importantly, I pay special tribute to VOYPIC, the Experts by Experience reference group and every young person who has provided evidence to Ray Jones, to me and to the Committee over the past few months. I had my speech written out by yesterday, but, last night, I received an email from a young person who has given me permission to name him today and who wanted his thoughts to be read out:

for the —

Those are not my words but the words of our young people who are living it, and they are the words of those who are able to speak up for themselves. We all know that there are others at a much younger age who enter the care system due to the failure of government to protect them and their families from the hardships that they face.

The Minister will get up here today and discuss the budget situation, which we completely understand, but many elements of Ray Jones's 53 recommendations can be implemented with little or no cost. I think about recommendation 25:

Recommendation 29 states:

I look forward to hearing from the Minister on that. Recommendation 30 states:

I hope that the Minister has watched the 'Spotlight' documentary from last week, and I look forward to hearing his thoughts on it.

Recommendation 50 states:

I am looking forward to the annual conference this year, which is something that Ray Jones proposed, to hear further about the progress made on the recommendations. There is, however, a review. It is here, it is being conducted in good faith, it has been consulted on, and decisions must now be taken. We need to ensure that the big policy areas, such as the policies on an arm's-length body and a single children and families social care division, are pushed forward. That responsibility is on all of us. Of course the entire Executive must work together, but the Minister of Health must lead. We must show leadership on the issue and work at pace to ensure that the life of every young person is a priority.

Mr Crawford: Much of today's debate has been and will be informed by the work of Professor Jones. Once again, I put on record my thanks and that of my party for the passion and commitment that he and his team displayed in conducting the review. The review also greatly benefited from all the young people, parents and carers engaging and sharing their lived experiences. Those experiences — the positive and the not so positive — so powerfully added to the review's final report.

Professor Jones's report was comprehensive and far-reaching, but we should not have expected anything less, because, by late 2021, it was becoming clear that children's social care services were starting to reach crisis point. At the time that the review commenced, record numbers of children and young people were in care. There were also very high rates of staff vacancies and overall increasing child protection workloads.

Unfortunately, young people, like others, were not always receiving the timely and quality support that they deserved. It was clear that something needed to be done. It was a case of either making changes or seeing services collapse, yet, for many of our young people, we simply cannot allow the safety net of children's social care services to fail. Sadly, the problems were not easing, and, crucially, demand was only continuing to grow. Professor Jones's review is a reliable and accurate benchmark against which we must measure future provision.

From looking at the final report, which was published last summer, it is clear to me that the review left no stone unturned. The recommendations are ambitious but ultimately achievable. As the motion makes clear, our vulnerable children and families need "sustained action". Short-term fixes will no longer cut it. It is the role of the Assembly to help deliver the necessary changes set out in the review. Thankfully, a number of them were accepted even in advance of the public consultation.

Although the vast majority of recommendations fall within the remit of the Department of Health, and I look forward to an update from the Minister, others are broader, reaching across more than just one Department. I hope that the Executive as a whole keep an open mind on the organisational and service changes recommended, because, although there are still challenges, there are also opportunities.

We have to be realistic, however, and recognise that some of the recommendations will require additional funding. If the Assembly is united in its desire to deliver improved services, it should also be mindful of just how difficult that task has been made as a result of the most recent funding allocations. Nevertheless, wherever improvements can be made, they must be made. Our young people deserve no less, and the review has shone a spotlight on what needs to be done.

Mr McGrath: We are here today to discuss a matter that is of the utmost importance: the well-being of some of our most vulnerable children and families. It is our task to ensure that every child has the opportunity to grow up in a safe, nurturing environment.

It is clear that immediate and sustained action is required to protect those who are at risk.

The independent review of Northern Ireland's children's social care services, which was published in June 2023, provides us with the critical road map for reform. The Ray Jones review, as has been mentioned, is a comprehensive piece of work. It not only identified the systemic issues in our social care framework but outlined a clear way forward. We must commend the thorough work that the review team and Professor Jones undertook, which shines a light on the challenges that our children and families face and which emphasises the urgent need for change.

Vulnerable children and families often navigate a complex web of social, economic and emotional challenges. We must act decisively to address their needs and ensure that they receive the care and protection that they need. To that end, the SDLP calls on the Health Minister to provide a detailed timeline for the implementation of the review's recommendations. It is only when we know when things will happen that we can adequately hold the Department to account and see the change that is needed. It is not enough to simply acknowledge the findings of the Ray Jones review: we must translate words into action. The timeline must be clear, it must be realistic and it has to be achievable. It is about ensuring that we do not lose the momentum that there is in that critical initiative at the moment.

Moreover, we must ensure that adequate resources and funding are allocated to ensure the effective reform of those services. I have to say that I do not have a massive amount of faith that we will do that. Since June of last year, we have continued to have lots of words from the Executive and lots of good feeling that things need to happen. It was mentioned that there were 53 recommendations. Some are easy to do; I think that they have started. There are a couple of big bruisers that would provide the fundamental review that is required, and they are not just as forthcoming. There is an obvious answer as to why they are not happening.

Reform cannot happen in a vacuum. It requires investment of both financial and human capital to create a system that is responsive, compassionate and effective. We need to equip our social care workforce with the tools and support that it needs to make a meaningful difference in the lives of children and families. Collaboration is the key to success. I urge the Minister to work closely with —.

Ms Bradshaw: I thank the Member for giving way. On his point about collaboration, does the Member agree that work needs to be taken forward on engaging our statutory youth workers, who are qualified individuals with a good role to play in that space?

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Member has an extra minute.

Mr McGrath: I commend the Member's eyesight. My next sentence is, literally, "I urge the Minister to work closely with statutory partners and relevant stakeholders". That includes youth workers and others, including in the community and voluntary sector, in order to create a holistic approach.

We also need an interdepartmental working group, if not a subgroup of the Executive, to take some of these moves forward. The changes that are recommended in the review go as far as the recommendations of the review of public administration years ago. They ask some Departments to give up massive agencies within their remit and pass them to an arm's-length body. Let us be clear about it: we know that Ministers, along with their civil servants, do not like to let go of and pass on big swathes of their Departments. If that is going to happen, we need to see commitment to it from all the Ministers involved.

It is not lost on me that eight of the nine members of the Health Committee belong to Executive parties. I hope that every Health Committee member who is a member of an Executive party encourages their Ministers to make sure that they work with the Health Minister to deliver the change. Otherwise, the Committee's motion could be accused of being simply warm words. For the sake of our young people, we cannot allow that to happen.

Mrs Dodds: I apologise for my late arrival in the Chamber.

One thing is clear from the contributions: the review of children's services and the debate that we are having will be meaningless and, as Mr McGrath said, just "warm words" if we do not hear from the Minister about the positive action that will come out of the debate. The review report was published about 18 months ago. The Department has been working on aspects of the review, but we really need to hear about decisions. Minister, the message from the Chamber today is about the importance of making decisions for some of the most vulnerable children and families in our community. Members have mentioned many aspects of the review, so I will highlight some issues, particularly those in my constituency that I have found harrowing and very difficult to deal with.

The independent review by Professor Jones found that referrals to children's social services are consistently higher in Northern Ireland than they are in England, the Republic of Ireland or Wales. Also, a higher proportion of Northern Ireland's child population are considered to be children in need and have a child protection plan. In recent years, there has been a proportionately greater growth in the number of children in care in Northern Ireland. That should be a stark warning to us all. High levels of staff vacancies are leading to large numbers of cases being unallocated and over 4,000 children and their families waiting after crossing an initial threshold for involvement with statutory children's social care.

I was particularly concerned about the review findings on fostering and, specifically, the recruitment of foster carers. Foster carers play a vital role in supporting vulnerable children and young people, and we commend those who provide high-quality care to our families and communities. Despite rising demand, there is, according to estimates compiled by the Fostering Network, a deficit of almost 300 foster carers locally. As I said, through my constituency service, I have seen some harrowing examples of families that are at crisis point and need foster care. The pressures on the service have knock-on effects on the pathways of the young people and their ability to succeed throughout their lives. People offer to help with emergency fostering when a young person has no other options available to them, but, having been good enough to take that step, the new emergency foster family is sometimes left helpless, unable to obtain the assistance or reassurance that it feels it needs because some of the social workers are, for whatever reason, continuously unavailable.

The gap in supply here has had huge consequences, given that four in five children who go into care are supported through fostering. A lack of available foster carers means that some children will experience multiple moves, leading to poorer outcomes for stability, personal health and well-being. It is welcome that the delivery plan for 2024-25 for the children's social care services strategic reform programme contains plans to, by April 2025, conclude a review of fostering service models to improve performance in foster care recruitment and retention and develop additional short breaks provision. That is not a long time, Minister, and we need action in that respect.

A lack of respite services is also placing a huge strain on many families, particularly the parents and carers of children with a disability or special educational needs.

Miss McAllister: I thank the Member for giving way. I met some of the mums who participated in the recent documentary. They disclosed to us that they — parents who are not able to get respite care — have been sent emails asking whether they could be foster carers. It goes back to your previous point about needing to ensure that there are more services. Do you agree that asking those who are already stretched to the limit is not the right way to go about getting more foster carers?

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Member has an extra minute.

Mrs Dodds: Thank you. The Member is absolutely right. Anyone who watched the programme on the BBC could not help but be affected by it. It is a shame on us all that so many families are left to cope on their own with so few short breaks. What I find really difficult about that is the difference between trusts in the services that they offer. Some trusts have very few or no programmes for short breaks; others manage quite well. When families move from one trust area to another, they find that their respite care is suddenly removed from them. I have said before and will continue to say that those are the strategic, inherent and inbuilt inequalities in the health system that we really need to tackle.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Member's time is up.

Ms Mulholland: I cannot help but feel an overwhelming sense of frustration and disappointment. It is 16 months since the publication of the independent review of children's social care services — the same length of time that it took Ray Jones to gather his evidence and compile that thorough report — yet here we are discussing the same issues with little or no tangible progress. The review's findings and recommendations were clear and painted a distressing picture of a system that intervenes too late, failing to offer support until a family is in crisis.

Recommendation 2 emphasised the critical need to address child poverty through changes in our welfare system. Tackling poverty is an essential step in preventing children from being placed into care: we know that. We cannot continue to allow families to face the burden of poverty without providing them with the financial support that they need to care for their children. If we tackle poverty upstream, we reduce the need for social services' involvement downstream.

Ray Jones's report emphasised that doing "the basics well" is a crucial foundation of any successful intervention. That means being reliable and respectful, thereby maintaining the trust in our social services. Unfortunately, many families interact with the system only when a crisis is imminent or under way. That is a fundamental failure of our current approach.

Mrs Dillon: I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that a good start would be to expand the Sure Start programme? We know that it works, we know that it is effective and we know that it can be done. The work is done in communities and is really impactful for families.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Member has an extra minute.

Ms Mulholland: Thank you. I will come on to Sure Start later.

The report called for cooperation between Departments and agencies to ensure that families do not fall through the cracks of a fragmented system. Sixteen months later, we are still waiting for that cooperation. We are still waiting for the early interventions across all Departments that can save families before they reach breaking point, and the lack of collaboration between agencies remains a significant barrier to delivering the effective and compassionate care that families so desperately need. That collaborative and supportive approach is key to creating a system that prioritises family welfare over crisis management.

Recommendation 4 called for:

That is more about assistance than confrontation. As Jones noted, "stability and continuity" are essential. Families should not have to deal with multiple social workers. They need consistent support to build a trusting relationship, something that is sorely lacking with the constant churn in personnel.

As Mrs Dillon pointed out, recommendation 23 reminds us of the crucial role that early support programmes such as Sure Start play in keeping families together. My party believes strongly in the expansion of Sure Start to include children aged from four to 10. Family support should not be limited to children under three years of age. We need a system that addresses the needs of children and families beyond those early years and ensures that no family is left behind due to postcode lotteries or geographical barriers, particularly in rural areas such as my constituency. We acknowledge the complexities involved in implementing that expansion, but the principle is clear and aligns with our guiding theme, which is that social services should be based on family support.

As we reflect on the challenges that children and families face across Northern Ireland, we must not lose sight of the crucial role that youth services play in preventing those crises. Youth services, especially those for care-experienced young people, such as Voice of Young People in Care (VOYPIC), must be a priority. Young people with care experience need access to services that are specifically tailored to their needs, services that provide stability, emotional support and guidance as they navigate the complexities of life without a stable family environment. We cannot allow those children to be left behind.

At the same time, we must address the gap in general youth services. There is an urgent need to provide structured supportive environments for all young people, not just those in care, so that they have a safe place where they can grow and develop.

Those services are vital in helping to prevent issues before they escalate; again, it is about nipping it in the bud before there is any escalation that requires intervention from social services.

Youth services for children in care, general youth services and family support are all essential elements of a compassionate and effective system. Families and children across Northern Ireland depend on us in the Chamber and you, Minister, to deliver those services. They cannot wait any longer, and nor should they.

Mr Martin: I begin by putting on record that I fully support the motion, and I thank the Chair of the Health Committee for tabling it. I also recognise the Northern Ireland review of children's social services report and the work of Ray Jones, which has been spoken about in the Chamber this morning. A number of years ago, I conducted a piece of research on adverse childhood experiences. As part of that process, I interviewed young people who had a care experience. I still recall vividly those interviews and the highly articulate and passionate young people who shared honestly with me their experiences of care. I will be frank and say that some of those were heartbreaking to hear.

I will make some points on a fairly specific aspect of the motion that the Member has just touched on. Research is clear that there is already a strong evidential base that early intervention in supporting children and families results in better and improved outcomes and happens to be more cost-effective. In England, for example, research has been carried out into the evidential impact of early interventions such as Sure Start, which was just talked about. It appears that, over a period of about 10 years, while spending on early interventions has reduced in England, spending on latter interventions, such as youth justice and safeguarding, has increased by a similar amount. I imagine that, if you are a policymaker in England, that is exactly the opposite of where you would want to be. It is, therefore, clear that we must continue to articulate in the House that we need to treat those issues upstream rather than downstream, and the best methodology for doing that is early intervention and prevention.

One of the key measures of the success of the reform programme should be an outcome where fewer children have to enter care, fewer children are subject to child protection arrangements and more children live healthily and happily with families. I do not underestimate the challenges in embedding the review findings, but, as other Members have said this morning and as I highlighted, we must know now where the Department is on the issue and the timescale for where it is going.

Mr Butler: I fully support the motion with, like the Member who just spoke, a particular emphasis on the value of prevention, early intervention and ongoing support for our children and young people. The motion should be more than just words: it should be about demonstrating in our words and, more importantly, our actions, that their lives matter. Regardless of the start that they have had in life and regardless of their circumstances and of how bereft of hope they have been made to feel, we are here to say that we care. However, it is not just about caring. We must care enough to act on the far-reaching recommendations set out in Professor Ray Jones's review of children's services. Let us make no bones about it: those circumstances existed more than 16 months ago; they existed more than 32 months ago; and they extended before my time in the Assembly.

As an Assembly, we stand at a great moment of scrutiny in our attitude to children and young people. However, I refer to when we walk off the pitch in political protest at failures, whether they are perceived or real. When we do that, we abandon the first and most crucial pillar of reform, transformation and change that a Minister can affect. I will continue to remind those in the House who still justify their three- and two-year absences that those five years of lost time will be measured in five years of lost progress and five years of lost transformative opportunities to bring and manifest changes in the life of those young people.

Please, when you speak about change and transformation, review what we have done and not done in the House. I will not get tired of reminding people in here of that, because those children, over that period, did not have advocacy in the House. It is time that we shook ourselves up and wobbled our heads. It is imperative that we stay committed to the work, as our absence removes the possibility of the very progress that we claim to seek. The Reimagine Children's Collective has been a shining example of collaborative advocacy for some of the most marginalised children in our society. Its work shows us the power of standing together to push for meaningful change.

Let us not forget the grim reality that we face: rising rates of child poverty; record numbers of children in care; a shortage of foster carers, which has been talked about; and the multiplicity of challenges faced by prospective adopters. Those children are not just statistics; they are lives in need of urgent care and compassion, as were the children who did not have advocacy here when we were not here for five years.

I pay tribute to those working in social services, who face overwhelming bureaucratic challenges, increasingly complex workforce issues and the difficult task of helping families to navigate complexities that are never easily untangled. I am sure that Members come across those examples. I pay tribute to the health professionals working in paediatric care, both physical and mental, and to those in the community and voluntary sector, in particular, to whom we owe our utmost gratitude. Their essential, life-breathing support is nothing short of amazing.

The recommendations in Professor Ray Jones's review are not just guidelines; they are a blueprint for the transformation that we desperately need. When we look at the rising rates of child poverty and the record numbers of children in care, we see that we really are failing too many of our young people. Each of those children deserves the opportunity to thrive, and the growing complexities of their needs cannot be ignored.

The key theme from Reimagine Children's Collective, which has tirelessly advocated for some of our most marginalised children, reminds us that progress is possible but only through collaboration. The collective has shown that we can bring about real change and that we can and do need to work together. That is something that, as an Assembly, we strive to do. In particular, the Minister of Health will need that intervention and help from the Minister of Education, the Minister of Justice, in particular, and the Minister for Communities. We all need to face in the same direction to deliver transformative change.

I will go back to it: to those who have previously felt compelled to walk off the political pitch in protest I say this: "When you do so, you remove a vital pillar of reform, a vital pillar of transformation, and you remove hope. If you ever feel compelled to do it again, remember that". If we abandon our responsibility, we leave behind the very children who need us most.

The motion calls for immediate, sustained action and demands collaboration across sectors. We must work together to ensure that the recommendations of the review are not just implemented but properly funded and resourced. Children and families across Northern Ireland depend on us to deliver. Let us not fail them again.

Ms Hunter: I welcome the comments of the Member who spoke previously. It is really important that we have this place up and running, seeking to deliver for our young people.

First, I thank Professor Ray Jones for his work on the issue and for his 53 recommendations. I will speak briefly in my capacity as my party's education spokesperson.

Our children's social care services are not fit for purpose, and our children are being failed. We have a responsibility to make this Government work for our people and deliver quality, functioning public services, and we have a responsibility to ensure the well-being and prosperity of our children here. Transformation is urgently needed to support our most vulnerable children, particularly those in care, who have faced some of life's greatest and most isolating challenges.

I also thank VOYPIC for giving a platform to our children and young people to share their journey and lived experience of life in care. On that topic, it links so closely with the fact that there are over 100,000 children in Northern Ireland living in poverty, with families who struggle to provide for their basic needs — a warm house, nutritious food and appropriate clothing — and to pay for childcare. With close to one in four children living in poverty in the North, I emphasise that that should be a priority for all Departments and our Executive.

Children living in poverty are twice as likely to leave school with fewer than five GCSEs and are twice as likely to receive a SEN diagnosis. We must do more to ensure that our services for them are well connected, that communication in Departments becomes more fluid and more flexible, particularly when discussing matters related to our vulnerable children, and that they work closely together for the best possible outcome for our young people.

Outside of this topic, I must also raise the challenge faced by vulnerable children and parents in my constituency with respite services, which are really dire. I do not need to echo that across the House because other Members know about it. Recently, I met stressed parents who are fantastic people and wonderful parents but simply cannot cope. They are being left without a break and without answers and support.

Minister, you have big challenges ahead when it comes to transforming services, but it is really important today that we do not forget the lived experience of vulnerable children and the parents and families who are wrapped around them and who rely on those services. The important thing is to ensure that vulnerable children are looked after by the state and live happy and healthy lives.

Mr Gaston: It is beyond ironic that, after yesterday's farce, the Assembly should find itself debating a motion recognising the need for immediate and sustained action to protect and support vulnerable children and families. Where was the concern for the vulnerable children who regularly visit the Building when the party that is leading on the motion on behalf of the Health Committee allowed a paedophile to have access to the Building that was revoked only last week? How can the House deliver lectures on the need for immediate action when some of the Members who are here, potentially, were so laissez-faire when it came to such a vital issue?

Where was the outcry from my fellow members of the Executive Office Committee when Ministers were shielded from questions last week? Where is the demand for immediate action against a Minister in the Executive who is supposedly accountable to the House and who, just a few days ago, gave the public inaccurate information about the duty of previous employers when it comes to passing on information about those who pose a threat to vulnerable children?

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): Mr Gaston, I ask you to return to the subject and the details of the motion, which are laid out clearly in the Order Paper.

Mr Gaston: Mr Deputy Speaker, I feel that this is very relevant to the topic, as I outlined at the start. If you allow me to continue, I will develop that further.

Where was the concern in the House yesterday, after I challenged the First Minister on when we can expect the party that brought us the Liam Adams scandal, the Máiría Cahill scandal, the Seamus Marley scandal and now the Michael McMonagle scandal to bring us another scandal? Where was the condemnation when the First Minister, on getting up to answer my question as to whether she could assure us that there will not be more paedophile scandals —.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): Mr Gaston, I ask you again to return and adhere — strictly adhere — to the reference of the motion, which is laid out clearly to all Members, including you.

Mr Gaston: Where I was getting to in this debate, Mr Deputy Speaker, was that, if the Executive and the Chamber are to have any shred of credibility on issues such as this, I encourage all Members to go to the Business Office and sign my motion of no confidence in the First Minister and Minister Murphy —.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): Mr Gaston, address the motion or resume your seat. The motion is clearly laid out.

Mr Gaston: Until the Executive and the Chamber take action on those matters, they cannot lecture anybody else.

Mr Carroll: The Chair of the Health Committee mentioned that services for children and young people are overwhelmed. A more accurate description, as it was described to me in recent days, is that the services are in complete meltdown. Obviously, staff are working as hard as they can, but they are effectively trying to move water in a bucket full of holes. It is worth saying that there are many holes and problems in the current system and that has an impact on children, looked-after children and young people in particular. If we cannot ensure that those people receive the support and protection that they so rightly deserve, what chance does everyone else have across our society?

It is also worth mentioning in the debate that it is pertinent that social workers have been and are still in dispute with several health trusts across the North. Let us just think about that for a second. The people whose job it is to support and protect looked-after children have had to take strike action and other industrial action because of the state of the sector and the lack of support for those who work in it and for young people. The workers and their unions have three main demands: a recognition payment for the work that they do; a career pathway for people in the sector; and an effective caseload ceiling, so that people are not covering a ridiculous number of cases.

I urge the Health Minister and his Department, along with the Executive, to cede to and implement those demands, otherwise the Minister, his Department and the Executive will oversee the further decline of those essential services.

How many more unallocated cases are too many — 100, 200, 300, 1,000? Are those numbers acceptable to the Minister or any Member in the House? We are talking about young people without a social worker. Who is measuring the impact on that young person? Those are valid and pertinent questions. To make an obvious point, there is no social work without social workers, so it is time that their conditions were sorted out. It is my understanding that talks between the trusts and the unions have broken down because of the attitude and approach of upper management. If that is indeed the case, a new attitude and a new approach towards social workers and their unions is needed.

The Treasury economics of obsessing about financial prudence needs to go completely out the window, especially when we are talking about supporting young people and protecting them from harm. That is what we are talking about: supporting young people and protecting them from harm. It is also about giving people who have had a difficult and challenging start in life another chance and a better shot. There should not be an attempt — it has been alluded to in the debate — to, through further processes, sneak privatisation or payment in through the back door or the front door, as the 'Power to People' report attempts to.

I have to mention, as has already been referred to, that there are no specialist facilities for children with severe disabilities and no respite services. Not only is that cruel, unfair and difficult for families and young people, but it is penny wise and pound foolish. Again, who is measuring the impact on families, young people and carers?

It would be unwise not to mention the fact that a pre-determining factor in whether someone is likely to need care or come into the care system is economic class. Those who cannot afford the essentials of life, who are ground down by exorbitant costs effected by a system that historically has huge levels of wealth but so much misery and difficulty, are more likely to be affected and impacted on by the care system. If we are not looking at that simultaneously, we are missing the bigger picture in this debate.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): I call the Minister of Health to respond to the debate. Minister, you have up to 15 minutes in which to speak.

Mr Nesbitt (The Minister of Health): Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate. I begin by recognising the need for immediate and sustained action — action — to protect and support vulnerable children and young people. I also acknowledge, as many Members have done, the excellent work of Professor Ray Jones in reviewing children's social care in Northern Ireland — not just the work of the report but his work since then, and his continued focus on ensuring meaningful change for children and families. I assure you that I share his determination to deliver that change. It is a fact, though — it will not be welcomed, I am sure, by Members — that the pace of change in some areas will be determined by factors beyond my control.

Children's social care services have experienced significant pressures over the past number of years, made worse by COVID-19, workforce issues such as high vacancy and turnover rates, and increasing family complexities. We know that there is a strong correlation between deprivation and the need for intervention in family life. Around 43% of children in care come from the 20% most-deprived areas in Northern Ireland compared with 5% from the least-deprived areas. Previous research identified that children in the 10% most-deprived small neighbourhoods here were nearly six times more likely to be on the child protection register. We also know that child poverty rates have been rising.

The review found that we have a higher rate of children being referred to children's social care services compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. We have a higher proportion of children in need of help, a higher proportion with child protection plans, and record numbers of children in care. The review, as Members will know, was commissioned in 2022, and reported in June 2023. The report made 53 recommendations along a continuum, ranging from the establishment of new ways of delivering and overseeing services through to hosting an annual conference. My Department consulted on 51 of the recommendations. We received 134 responses. Some recommendations were accepted in advance of that consultation, either on the basis that they were necessary things to do or on the basis that they reflected work that was already in train.

Of the 53 recommendations, I have accepted 34. Three are now considered closed, four have not been accepted, and two are beyond the scope of the review.

Miss McAllister: Will the Minister take an intervention?

Mr Nesbitt: I would like to make some progress.

Ten of the 53 recommendations are subject to ongoing consideration, because they either are the responsibility of other Departments or require cross-departmental support in order to progress. Those include the recommendations that relate to having a Minister for children and families, the expansion of the Sure Start programme and the implementation of the Gillen review of civil and family justice and seven recommendations that relate to what Professor Jones termed:

which was the recommendation for a region-wide children and families arm's-length body. I think that Members will accept that those are significant steps to take, and we need to be assured that they have real potential to deliver the change that is being sought and that they will not destabilise services.

Professor Jones concluded that there is a "systemic and endemic" children's social care crisis in Northern Ireland, caused not by individual failings but by the current children's social care structures, systems and processes. In August, I met Professor Jones, and it was clear that he had not changed his mind since the publication of his review report. It remains his view that the crisis needs to be addressed through changes in governance and organisational arrangements and through a renewed focus on supporting families, in line with the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. Members have mentioned that he deemed us to be heavy on activity and rather light on action. I agree with him that, as I have said often, government is not about inputs and outputs but about outcomes and whether we deliver better ones.

Members will understand that decision-making on those recommendations extends beyond my Department's remit. What is proposed is an arm's-length body that would incorporate not only children's social care services but potentially education welfare services, youth services and youth justice services.

Miss McAllister: I thank the Minister for taking an intervention. I completely understand that it is not just his responsibility. Has he prioritised bringing the issues of a Minister for children and families and an arm's-length body to the Executive for discussion with his colleagues?

Mr Nesbitt: I thank the Member for her intervention. To answer the direct question in a strict sense, I have not brought those issues to the Executive. I have taken the issue of the arm's-length body to the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Education, because they would be most involved with Health were an arm's-length body to be established. I took the issue of a Minister for children and families directly to the Executive Office, to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. For clarity, the Minister of Justice is supportive of the establishment of an arm's-length body. The Department of Education has engaged with my departmental officials to seek further clarification and to explore further the implications of an arm's-length body. I have not received a definitive response from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister on the issue of a Minister for children and families. I will say this to the Member: the appointment of a Minister for children and families could be repercussive. For example, why not then have a Minister for older people? Those are the considerations that I imagine are being discussed in the Executive Office.

There is scope for a new arm's-length body to be central to the implementation of the Children's Services Co-operation Act (Northern Ireland) 2015: a lead "children's authority", to use that Act's terminology. I pause at this point to pay tribute to former Member Steven Agnew, the man who brought the private Member's Bill to the Assembly that became that Act. My view is that a new ALB has to be more than the drawing together of children's social care from the five trusts. While Professor Jones proposed that the ALB should have a local footprint aligned to trust areas, I believe that we need to look at the regionalisation of some services, with them being provided in one place rather than five. That is consistent with my view that we must identify best practice where it exists and turn it into common practice across the five geographical trusts.

The decision on the arm's-length body will mostly impact on the Department of Education and the Department of Justice, so, as I said, I have asked those Ministers for their views. These are not minor decisions, and I appreciate that the Education Minister wants to consider this very carefully, as I do. However, I know that we cannot ponder forever, and I do not intend to. It is my intention to bring a paper to the Executive in the coming weeks to seek their consideration of the recommendation that calls for a children and families arm's-length body. I also intend to seek Executive support for additional funding to enable a shift away from statutory intervention in family life. I totally agree with Professor Jones that greater and earlier support for families is needed in order to keep them together. I also agree with him that making that shift will require additional funding, at least in the short to medium term. Once the Executive process concludes, I will make a statement to the Assembly.

Mr McGrath: I thank the Minister for giving way. To quote the incisive words of the poetic group ABBA, this is about, "Money, money, money". Have you had any indication from the Finance Minister that additional funding will be made available or that there is an opportunity for money to be made available? Do you have a sense, within your Department, that you will not be able to progress matters unless there is additional money? We know that it will not work if you are left to divert money from other parts of your Department, so Executive buy-in is needed.

Mr Nesbitt: I thank the Member for his question. There was an opening Budget position, and then there was the June monitoring round, which released significant funds to the Department. We are optimistic that we will receive Barnett consequentials between now and year end. That is not to say, however, that that will ease our budgetary pressures. We are finding it extremely difficult to balance the books, and that is without considering pay pressures, which will need to be met in some form. There is no easy answer or good news on the budget for this year, and I anticipate that the same may well be the case in the next financial year.

Work is in train to deliver against the 34 accepted recommendations, of which 27 have formally been assigned to the children's social care services strategic reform programme, including eight that we categorise as being guiding principles. The remaining seven recommendations are the responsibility of my Department to progress. That reform programme was established in April of last year and is overseen by senior leaders in children's social care within the Department, by the health and social care trusts and by other departmental arm's-length bodies. The Department of Education, the Department of Justice and trade union side are also represented. The voluntary and community sector is embedded at all levels of the reform programme, including in a dedicated work stream built around the Reimagine Children's Collective. I express my gratitude to the collective for the leadership that it has shown.

Among other things, the reform programme identifies effective practice in Northern Ireland and beyond, and plans to replicate that practice, where appropriate, to ensure that the best use is made of existing resources in order to achieve consistency across the region. For example, work is ongoing to identify the root causes of waiting lists across children's social care services and to test solutions. Models of best multi-agency, front door practice in children's services across the UK and internationally have also been reviewed. A children's residential care strategy is being developed and work is under way to enhance residential capacity in the immediate term, including looking to new models of residential care to enable trusts to respond more flexibly to meet need and to enable children with complex needs to remain in Northern Ireland.

We are also looking at the potential of introducing multi-site children's homes: homes with one manager and staff team that have the capacity to use space across multiple sites in order to better meet the needs of children by, for example, supporting time out or enabling children with acute needs to live in a smaller home environment.

Mrs Dillon: I thank the Minister for giving way; I appreciate that he has already given way a number of times. Can we get some reassurance that that provision will not be privatised and that it will be provided under your Department? The potential for privatisation is a real fear, particularly for the Reimagine Children's Collective. It is also a fear of mine, because starting to make money off the back of children's services is a dangerous place to go.

Mr Nesbitt: I thank the Member for her intervention. Professor Jones raised concerns about the private sector beginning to infiltrate the provision of residential care for children in Northern Ireland. The absence of the private provision of children's social care was identified by him in that review as a strength. We have a small number of independent sector providers of residential homes. At 11 April this year, there were 55 registered children's homes in Northern Ireland, seven of which — 12·7% — were run by independent sector providers. Only two of the seven were operated by for-profit providers. That having been said, the pressure on statutory sector provision points to the need to work differently to fill placement gaps. We need to plan for and develop a wider range of accommodation options for children and young people, but I assure the Member that the private sector is not top of my list.

Policy and legislative reform under the programme includes the continued implementation of the Adoption and Children Act and the A Life Deserved: Caring for Children and Young People in Northern Ireland strategy. Care-experienced children and young people are central to ongoing work to review care planning and looked-after child review arrangements, and a care pilot that aims to improve the quality and responsiveness of care planning is due to commence this month. Those are only examples; the time available does not permit me to do justice to the breadth of activity that is being undertaken. A paper that we prepared for the Health Committee, which was issued last week, gives a better sense of the ongoing work and the progress that is being made.

The reform programme and the implementation of the review recommendations are now firmly interconnected. Other programmes of work are also relevant, principally work related to the reform of the social work workforce, which is being led by the Chief Social Worker in the Department. The number of social work training places funded by the Department increased from 260 in 2020 to 325 in 2024, which is the highest number on record.

As I begin to run out of time, I want to touch on a couple of things. Mr Robinson was keen to know about the implementation programme. To do a whole-system reform, including the implementation of the review recommendations, will take not months; it will take years. I say that to be honest and practical about the timescales that are needed. One of the Members said that we should be boosting Sure Start. That belongs with the Department of Education. The Gillen review belongs with Justice, so, as I said, it is not just me.

Finally, I commend the BBC and Tara Mills for the excellent programme 'I Am Not Okay', which was a wonderful piece of journalism that has had a huge impact on my thinking.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): I call the Deputy Chair of the Committee for Health, Danny Donnelly, to conclude the debate and make a winding-up speech. He has up to 10 minutes.

Mr Donnelly (The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Health): On behalf of the Committee, I thank all the Members for their contributions and the Minister for his response. I look forward to continued engagement with the Minister and the Department on implementing the recommendations of the Ray Jones report.

I pay tribute to Professor Jones for his invaluable work on the review. He ensured that the report was centred on the best interests of children, young people and families. I thank those young people and families who were directly involved in the formulation of the report. My hope is that your work on producing the report and its recommendations will result in changes to policy, practice and procedure that will benefit people who are, or will be, in your position for decades to come. I thank the community and voluntary sector for all the work that it does in that area. We can clearly say that, without your ongoing work and support to children and families, we would be looking at a complete breakdown in the services provided. I ask that you continue to advocate on behalf of children, young people and families in that way.

Our Committee Chair, Liz Kimmins, said that pressures on social care are systemic and endemic. She noted the growing demand for services and the worrying vacancy rates in the service. Committee member Alan Robinson noted that it was a moral duty to legislate so that no children are left behind, and that families must have access to services. He stated that the pace of reform needs to quicken, and asked the Minister for a clear timeline for enacting the recommendations. Committee member Nuala McAllister noted the high rates of children in care in her constituency of North Belfast. She mentioned Shea Taylor, who is an expert by experience. He cited several issues that he wanted to be raised, including the Government's ignorance in creating a social care system and the lack of funding for youth organisations. Nuala also highlighted that many recommendations could be implemented without much cost and encouraged the Minister to look at those. She said that we must show leadership and work at pace.

Colin Crawford said that the report's recommendations are ambitious but achievable and that the Assembly must implement them.

Colin McGrath called for a detailed timeline for the implementation of the recommendations in the Ray Jones report and said that we must equip our social care workforce to care for children in care and work with youth leaders and particularly the community and voluntary sector to get a holistic approach to caring for children in care.

Committee member Diane Dodds said that the debate will be meaningless unless we hear of actions from the Minister. She referred to a deficit of 300 foster carers. She spoke of working locally with families in need in her constituency. She mentioned the pressures on foster families and said that, at times, children who are moved between them have poorer outcomes.

The lack of respite services came up again and was referenced in the BBC 'Spotlight' programme, ''I Am Not Okay'. I know that many Members and the Minister have met families. Members highlighted differences across trusts in Northern Ireland. Sian Mulholland mentioned that the system intervenes too late, waiting until families are in crisis, and that tackling poverty is an essential first step in order to support families. She said that we need a collaborative approach to provide support for families in need and that consistent support is needed to be able to build relationships with those families.

Sian also mentioned that Sure Start should be expanded. Linda Dillon also mentioned that in an intervention. Sian said that youth services are necessary to support young people in care and that we must fund general youth services in order to be able to go upstream and prevent problems from arising.

Peter Martin recalled his research on childhood experiences of children in care and said that there is a strong evidential basis that early intervention results in better outcomes for children and that such interventions are more cost-effective when we go upstream and provide them early.

Robbie Butler said that we stand at a great moment of scrutiny of how we treat children in care. He highlighted very strongly and repeatedly the fact that there were five years of lost opportunities when the Assembly was shut down and children lost out. He said that the Ray Jones report is a blueprint for transformation and that collaboration is necessary to deliver transformative change. Cara Hunter also mentioned the importance of having a functioning Assembly in order to deliver the recommendations and the change that is necessary. She referred to the impact of poverty on educational attainment. Having met families, she also mentioned respite services.

Timothy Gaston, as mentioned by the Speaker, spoke on an issue that was unrelated to the motion and was censored several times.

Gerry Carroll said that the services are overwhelmed and in complete meltdown. Some social workers are in dispute with the trusts, and he highlighted the breakdown of talks between the unions and the trusts. He also said that there are no specialist services for families with children with complex needs, which has come up again and again.

The Minister of Health addressed us and recognised the need for immediate and sustained action, which all Members will be very glad to hear. He mentioned the correlation between deprivation and the need for social care and acknowledged that childhood poverty rates are rising.

The Minister said that there is real potential to deliver the change that is being sought here and mentioned several of the recommendations, including, in particular, the arm's-length body that was proposed. He highlighted the point that such a body requires input from other Departments. The Minister updated us on discussions with other Ministers about having a Minister for children and an arm's-length body that could be the lead children's authority. He also mentioned the former MLA Steven Agnew as being responsible, via a previous private Member's Bill, for the 2015 Act.

The Minister mentioned that he intends to bring a paper to the Executive in a couple of weeks on the provision of an ALB, including a call for additional funding. He also outlined the work that his Department is doing to progress reform programmes. Following an intervention from Linda Dillon, he noted concerns highlighted in the report that the private sector is beginning to infiltrate the provision of children's services here in Northern Ireland.

Mr Nesbitt: I just want to clarify that I said that I will bring a paper to the Executive "in the coming weeks" rather than in the next couple of weeks.

Mr Donnelly: Thank you for that confirmation, Minister. I hope that "the coming weeks" means a short period.

One thing that was very clear in all the contributions was the need for us to go upstream and have important early interventions. Many Members noted that again and again. There is no denying the fact that the group of people about whom we are talking is one of the most vulnerable. We, as an Assembly and an Executive, should be judged on how we look after the most vulnerable. We can go over all the reasons and the context as outlined in the Ray Jones report and we can talk about the impact of COVID, the increasing numbers and complexity of cases and the decreasing budgets, but we have to be honest and say that we must do better.

We need to stop looking for all the reasons why we cannot move forward and start to identify ways to do better and support those families and their children. We need to make use of the experts in the area, and those are the children, young people and families who are going through the process. They are the people who know what support they need and where the gaps in services are. That is why Professor Jones's report hits the mark. Children, young people and families helped to shape that report and its recommendations. They are the experts. That is why we call on the Minister to work collaboratively with statutory partners and relevant stakeholders, including the community and voluntary sector and children and young people with lived experience, to deliver improved and sustainable care for vulnerable children and families and to prioritise the welfare and protection of children. Implementation of the report's recommendations must be co-designed and co-delivered with the community and voluntary sector and those with lived experience.

Children's social care services will remain a key priority over the coming period, and we look forward to engaging directly with young people and families over the coming months to hear at first hand their experiences and suggestions on how support could be better provided. The Committee has a programme of regular briefings over the coming session, and the Assembly can be assured that the Committee will hold the Minister and the Department to account on the implementation and delivery of the report's recommendations. As the Chair said in her contribution:

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): I ask Members to take their ease while we move on to the next item in the Order Paper.

Miss McAllister: I beg to move

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

Miss McAllister: Adult social care is a perfect example of how to relieve pressure on hospitals and secondary care. Investing in domiciliary and community care is an early intervention and prevention mechanism that reduces the need for people to go to A&E, use the Ambulance Service or stay in hospital beds that they no longer need. However, social care is about more than just easing pressure elsewhere in the healthcare system. Most importantly, it is a vital sector that, I am sure, everyone will have interactions with at some point in their life, either for themselves or a loved one. Such services give people independence and ensure that they can live their life where they want and on their own terms surrounded by loved ones in the place that they can call home. It is crucial that social care is properly supported and that the workforce is valued for the care that it provides.

Unfortunately, however, adult social care is a perfect example of how slow we can be in Northern Ireland to make progress — something that I have been highlighting as an issue impacting on a range of areas across Health. I understand that the 'Power to People' report in 2017 led to the Department consulting on reform of adult social care in Northern Ireland, which then led to the creation of the social care collaborative forum to implement the outcome of the consultation through a number of separate work streams. The Minister has since confirmed to me and many others through answers to questions for written answer that any specific changes recommended by the collaborative forum shall be subject to public consultation.

I want to focus on that for a moment. As many others do, I acknowledge the fact that consultation is important, as is co-production, but the Department of Health will be consulting on an issue that it has already consulted on again and again. Do not get me wrong: that collaboration is key, and we need to hear again from people in the sector, but I fear that we will now use this as a mechanism of delay rather than one of positive action. We are stuck in a labyrinth of bureaucracy, where change will be a never-ending discussion, while services on the ground continue to deteriorate in the face of growing demand and an ageing and sicker population. That has all been exacerbated by COVID and the instability in this place.

In recent months, many questions for written answer to the Minister about social care have been answered with reference to the ongoing work of the collaborative forum, which is due to continue into next year. My frustration is not with the people and organisations involved — they are doing valuable work — but with the fact that so little progress has been made on the recommendations from the consultation. It is disappointing that I am able to say the same thing that I said in today's earlier debate about children's social care services, and we have heard that from stakeholders involved in children's social care and adult social care.

I appreciate, though, that there are annual updates on the work of the collaborative forum through the end-of-year reports and delivery plans. However, the reality is that many queries and issues raised around social care reform receive the stock answer of, "The forum is looking at this". These key questions remain: when we will reach the point of action? When will service users benefit from outcomes on the ground? I am sure that the Minister will not be surprised to hear me say that, while, of course, I understand the difficult financial constraints that he and every Executive Minister currently face, I am keen to focus on how the current available budget can be used in a more strategic way by, in this case, looking at investing in measures that will have more impact in the long term: workforce, domiciliary care and early discharge, among others.

I am also keen to highlight that there are policy changes that can be made at little to no cost that would begin to have an impact on the ground in the social care sector. The issue of third-party contributions from family members of those in care homes has been raised by a number of constituents right across Northern Ireland, and I was shocked to discover that the Department's guidance dictating the charging of third-party contributions has not been updated since 2010. In addition, when I submitted questions to the Minister to dig deeper into the criteria of that guidance, I was told that the proximity to the individual's family, loved ones and support system is not taken into account when deciding which care home accommodation is appropriate. How can a care home be classed as appropriate if family members and loved ones live unreasonable distances away when the individual can no longer rely on their support system in times of need or has to pay extra money to stay close to that support system?

The Assembly has debated the issue of tackling loneliness countless times, yet we are embedding the threat of loneliness in this way by placing people in care homes that are far too far away from their loved ones.

Ms Kimmins: I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that the implementation of top-ups not only makes it even more difficult for families who are not in a position to pay those fees but restricts the choice for many people who do not have that family support or whose family simply cannot afford it?

Miss McAllister: Absolutely, I agree. I am sure that the Member has been in touch with constituents who have had responses such as, "Oh, you do have options". However, in reality, because of the cost, they do not have those options.

We must get the guidance updated to include proximity. That would not require upfront investment — we look forward to hearing whether that is the case — but would have a massive impact on ensuring that individuals feel more secure in the care home accommodation that is provided while reducing the burden of third-party contributions on families. It is for that reason that we welcome the DUP's amendment. The current charging arrangements are highly unfair and inconsistent. I look forward to seeing urgent progress on the review of those.

I note that the social care collaborative forum has committed to reviewing, updating and issuing revised nursing home and residential care home minimum standards by March next year. I am keen to receive from the Minister an update on that work and a commitment that those new minimum standards are on track to be issued, with care homes notified of the updates by the end of the financial year, in line with the commitment in the delivery plan. As I have said before, this is a plan, but we do not need more plans. We need action. We need to see change.

We all know, as it has been debated in the Chamber before, that there is no service without a sustainable workforce that has clear opportunities for career progression and fair pay and working conditions. Indeed, that was made clear in the review of adult social care and the consultations that followed it. While they highlight the crucial role that improved pay and conditions will play in improving recruitment, capacity and quality of service, there are other recommendations on improving the workforce that may not need major funding in order to be progressed, such as improving the requirements for the induction, support, development and supervision of the workforce, values-based recruitment and, crucially, ensuring that the workforce feels valued. Has the collaborative forum made any progress on improving staff inductions and the opportunities for staff development, and will that be implemented? I note that the forum also committed to publishing the finalised social care workforce strategy by December this year. Can the Minister give some comfort today to those workers in the social care sector, who far too often do not receive the recognition that they deserve, by confirming that that will be the case?

Another recommendation that the report states is crucial to all aspects of the reform and that will improve consistency and standardisation of services is a regional approach to data collection for all social care services. That will ensure consistency right across the sector. I know that there is a dedicated work stream in the collaborative forum for supporting unpaid carers. The most recent delivery plan commits to recommendations on the development of an expanded carers' register by September this year. However, we are already in October, so where are we with those recommendations? There was also a commitment to a complete review of the 2006 carers' strategy? Where are we with that? I commend the work of those in the sector who participate in the work streams, because they are dedicating their time and resources and are acting in good faith, hoping to see tangible outcomes for the sector and for people on the ground.

Carers NI published its policy document, 'A New Deal for unpaid carers in Northern Ireland', over a year ago. It contains a number of recommendations. I look forward to hearing the Minister's response.

Another aspect that I would like to touch on is the adult safeguarding Bill. We, as members of the Health Committee, are well aware that that is in transit through the Health Department, but we would welcome it coming to the Assembly in as reasonably timely a fashion as possible. That is because it is crucial that everyone has confidence and faith in the social care system.

I recognise that some of the work that I mentioned is cross-departmental. It is a massive task, and I do not underestimate that. However, the first consultation on adult social care reform was in 2012. It is now 12 years later. We need to see action and progress and to ensure that adults in the social care system, and the families who support them, get the right help.

Mrs Dodds: I beg to move the following amendment

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: Diane, you will have 10 minutes to propose the amendment and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All others Members will have five minutes. Diane, please open the debate on the amendment.

Mrs Dodds: Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker. I propose the amendment not to take anything away from the motion but merely to add to it an issue that has come to my constituency office and that Members may have experienced in their personal lives. I thank the proposer of the motion for supporting the amendment, because it is important.

I want to highlight a number of things, but, mainly, I want to focus on delayed discharges from hospitals. The amendment addresses the need to ensure that we have appropriate costs for care and VAT in care homes. Nothing highlights the link between health and social care better than the difficulties with delayed discharges from our hospitals: the obscenity of hundreds of beds being out of use for operations in acute care because people who are medically fit remain in hospital awaiting care packages.

Back in the spring, the Minister provided me with figures demonstrating that, on 15 March, 628 patients across Northern Ireland had a needless stay in hospital. The real figure might have been higher, as some trusts had only included in the calculation the beds on their largest acute sites, and that was well into the spring, when the annual winter surge of respiratory cases may well have subsided. Having more than 600 hospital beds unavailable is the equivalent of keeping the doors locked at one of our large acute hospitals and at another small one. It is the equivalent of locking the doors at the Royal Victoria Hospital and saying, "We can do no more admissions today." It is an issue that really must be tackled.

Hospital staff are forced to go to work each morning with one arm tied behind their back. It ought to be a key objective to free up more capacity and allow the system to operate. The loss of beds impacts on all parts of the system, including waiting times, emergency departments and hospital admissions. It is poor care, too, for those patients who are kept in hospital unnecessarily. Many argue that we do not have enough hospital beds in Northern Ireland in the first place, but we certainly cannot afford to lose 600 beds within the system at any one time. I recognise that there can be difficulties finding replacements for individuals, but the issue needs to be gripped from the centre. It is a straightforward opportunity to transform hospital provision. For anyone looking in from the outside, or from any other walk of life, it is a simple means of making a fundamental impact on the efficiency of the overall system.

The second issue that I want to highlight is regulation in the care sector. Too often, we hear that social care is not sufficiently valued. It is not helped by how it is funded. Down the years, providers of social care have had little confidence and, at times, uncertainty around that funding. The impression has always been that, when the financial envelope is squeezed, social care is one of the very last areas of the budget that will be considered. Whatever is left at the end of the budget process is what will be available to social care. Rather than being able to plan medium- and long-term care homes in domiciliary care, for example, the sector has had to put up with whatever the Department and the trust gives it. None of that assists in making the care sector an attractive one in which to work or seek to build a career. If the Government and the powers that be do not value social care, why should anyone else?

The idea of regulating care costs was raised as far back as the Transforming Your Care review led by John Compton. That was when Edwin Poots was the Health Minister, so it is a long time ago. On social care, 'Transforming Your Care' stated:

Department —

Proposal 20 of the review specifically recommended:

I mention that aspect and included it in the amendment because I know, as the Chair of the Committee said in her intervention, that many of us will have heard from families who are desperate because of the top-ups that are required from part of the independent sector. It is not a choice for families. Often, families just do not have the means to make those top-ups, and we really need to have some means of regulating them, particularly when they can reach extreme amounts very quickly. That is why we tabled the amendment.

Financial stability in the sector would be of immense benefit and would place a value on caring and the other work that those in the social care sector do. There also needs to be action to strengthen our domiciliary and social care workforce, such as making it more attractive by improving working conditions, establishing career pathways and providing support for staff. Mandatory training and professional development should be introduced with pay progression linked to skills, experience and qualifications.

Finally, is the Minister able to provide an update on VAT for care home operators? I tabled a number of questions for written answer, to which I received responses in June, on Northern Ireland care home operators not being able to reclaim VAT to the same extent as their counterparts in other parts of the United Kingdom. Health and social care trusts are permitted to reclaim VAT on non-business activities, under the provisions of the Value Added Tax Act 1994. The regional residential and nursing home specification and contract, however, which was issued to trusts in 2015, does not permit independent homes to do so. The Minister answered:

A further answer stated:

The Minister advised me in June that the VAT issue was being prioritised for early consideration by the commissioning and contracting work stream. Can the Minister provide the Assembly with an update on that and on whether the issues have been resolved? In mentioning that, it is clear to me that, if there is additional money that can stabilise it, we should help the care home sector avail itself of that additional money, because we would like to see it being ploughed back into additional provision and care for those who require it.

I am glad that the proposer of the motion is agreeable to our amendment, and I commend it to the House.

Ms Kimmins: I thank the Alliance Party for tabling the motion and the DUP for tabling the amendment, and we will support both. It is clear that the issue is critical to ensuring that our health and social care systems continue to function efficiently and effectively and deliver a much higher quality of life and better outcomes to people requiring care and to their families and carers. As with the subject of the previous debate, it is clear that the adult social care system requires significant transformation in order to deliver properly for some of the most vulnerable people in our communities. Having a fully functioning social care system will also ensure that our hospitals can sustain an efficient patient flow from the front door to the back door, as the Member who spoke previously outlined.

Just last Thursday, I, along with some other members of the Health Committee, visited the Ambulance Service dispatch headquarters, where we heard directly from the people in the control centre taking ambulance 999 calls and calls from paramedics working on the ground. We heard clearly about the precarious situation that the Ambulance Service often finds itself in and about the difficult calls that those staff have to take, which involve keeping people on the line for significant periods while they await an ambulance to attend to them. That is coupled with the prolonged waits outside our emergency departments, and it is shocking that those waits are often for longer than 24 hours, with patients seeing numerous shift changes as they stay in the ambulance until they can be transferred into the hospital. That is often due to the unavailability of beds, which is causing bottlenecks in our EDs. That can largely be attributed to the inability to source care packages and care home placements to discharge medically fit patients from hospital.

While the motion focuses on the need to make urgent progress on the work of the Social Care Collaborative Forum, it is important that we emphasise that not only is this impacting on individuals requiring care and their families and carers but the knock-on impact on others in need of urgent and unscheduled care is huge, as well as the additional pressure and distress for many staff — in hospitals and in the Ambulance Service — who often feel powerless as they wait to get patients into the hospital, often for a long time.

The failure of our system to deliver accessible, reliable and quality care for individuals and to support their carers and families cannot be allowed to continue. We need to see the changes that are needed implemented at pace to avoid the further deepening of the crisis unfolding before us. As someone who has worked in adult social care, I have never seen the scale of the challenges that we see now, with families waiting months to secure what would previously have been seen as a basic care package. That is simply not acceptable, and we should not normalise it, particularly as the onus then falls on unpaid carers, who are already giving everything to deliver care for their loved ones.

A number of things need to be addressed if we are to see the reform that is needed, but critical to this, first and foremost, is the workforce. I welcome the ongoing work of the Social Care Collaborative Forum in conjunction with other stakeholders — for example, the Northern Ireland Social Care Council and others — to make the caring profession more attractive but also to place appropriate value on carers as key people in our social care system, which will also allow for career progression and the development of skills. I look forward to hearing further information on the progress of workforce planning from the Minister.

I appreciate the huge challenges before the Minister and his Department. I do not think anyone here underestimates that, but, if we are serious about transforming our health service, a fit-for-purpose, high-quality social care system is key.

Mr McGrath: Today's motion addresses an urgent matter that affects the lives of countless individuals and families across the North: the transformation of our social care system. The topic has been discussed extensively, yet we find ourselves expressing frustration at the lack of meaningful progress since the publication of the 'Power to People' report in 2017. That report was meant to be a catalyst for change and a beacon of hope for those on social care services, but, nearly six years later, we still await the actions that are so desperately needed. The reality is stark: workforce shortages, care home capacity constraints and the long delays in accessing community care packages leave too many people without the high-quality services they require when they need them most. That is unacceptable. Our social care system is meant to provide support, dignity and care to those who are the most vulnerable, yet it is falling short. We must ask ourselves how many more families must struggle before we take decisive action.

I recognise the incredible contribution of our front-line staff, providers and community and voluntary sector bodies. Those individuals and organisations work tirelessly, often in challenging circumstances, to deliver care and support to those in need. They are the backbone of our social care system. However, admirable as their efforts are, we must acknowledge that they cannot compensate for a system that is in crisis. That is why the work of the Social Care Collaborative Forum is so vital. The forum has brought together key stakeholders to identify the challenges we face and to develop solutions that can lead us towards a better social care system. We are grateful for their contributions and insights, but we cannot afford to let the work sit on a shelf.

We need action, and we need to see it now. To that end, I call on the Minister of Health to bring forward the key policy development priorities from the collaborative forum without delay. That includes the Health and Social Care workforce strategy 2026, which is essential for addressing the workforce shortages that are crippling our services. As with all sections of our health service, we cannot provide quality care without a well-supported and adequately staffed workforce. It is time to prioritise the recruitment, retention and training of our social care professionals.

While the Department tells us that the vacancy rate in social work is 5·4%, the British Association of Social Workers has been informed of vacancy rates of 30% to 35% in family intervention teams and in excess of 40% in looked-after children's services. If we want to go into specifics, the Department needs to accept the reality that, if the adult protection Bill is to go ahead in this mandate, alongside the roll-out of multidisciplinary teams (MDTs), the Adoption and Children Act 2022 and the much-needed learning disability framework, we will need hundreds of new social workers. I ask the Minister this: where will they come from? How will we keep them? The entire system will need money.

I sound like a broken record, but, again, it is not lost on me that we have an Executive party motion and an Executive party amendment that ask a Minister from another Executive party to do something. It sometimes feels as though the conversations just go around in circles with people talking to themselves. You are the Executive, so, if you want to prioritise it, prioritise it, and let us stop talking about it.

We must revise care standards for nursing homes. Our elderly and vulnerable populations deserve to live in environments that meet their needs and ensure their dignity. Caring standards must reflect the realities of modern care and the expectations of the families who entrust their loved ones to those facilities. Furthermore, a review of the carers' strategy from 2006 is long overdue. Our carers are the unsung heroes of our social care system, often providing essential support without the recognition or resources that they deserve. We must ensure that they have access to the support, training and respite that they need to continue their vital work.

The time for talk is over. The people of the North are counting on us to act.

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: The Business Committee has arranged to meet at 1.00 pm today. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The debate will continue after Question Time, when the first Member to be called will be Diana Armstrong.

Mr C Murphy (The Minister for the Economy): I have engaged with the Minister for Infrastructure. He is committed to working with Executive colleagues to ensure that an appropriate investment is made. I am acutely aware of the constraints that infrastructure imposes on our economic resilience and capacity for growth. The reality is that this is a symptom of the systematic underfunding of the block grant over the past decade that the Executive now have to address. Despite those pressures, this year, the Minister for Infrastructure has allocated 40% of his Department’s total budget — almost half a billion pounds — to NI Water. Senior staff from Invest NI have had regular engagement with NI Water to understand the challenges and see how strategic investments can be aligned to benefit the economy.

Mr Dunne: I thank the Minister for his answer. The outdated and at-capacity sewerage network is stalling the construction of new homes, businesses and public buildings in 23 towns across Northern Ireland. Given the impact of that currently and in the future, what action will the Minister take to address those challenges, particularly with the pressures on housing? Does he fully recognise the scale of the issue? Is he prepared to offer more than just words and take action?

Mr C Murphy: Everyone in the Executive is conscious of the issue, and I have heard a number of Ministers say that it is the one allocation of capital that we all support. We recognise that we need the waste water infrastructure for all our plans. If we do not have the proper facilities to allow development, all the Executive's plans and associated capital builds will run into difficulties. Yes, we support it. The Finance Minister is leading the charge to find more funding to address the legacy of a decade of underinvestment. Other Ministers will fully support addressing the issue, because we know that it has the potential to upend plans across every Department.

Mr Boylan: Is Invest NI engaging with NI Water to ensure that investments are not impacted by water surge issues?

Mr C Murphy: Yes. The two organisations are engaged at that strategic level to make sure that we understand where Invest NI's development priorities are and that Northern Ireland Water's capital programmes reflect that it understands the economic priorities. It is important that the two organisations talk. The Member will be aware from his constituency, as I am from mine, that, if people are ready and willing to invest in the various business parks and land that Invest NI owns, we must ensure that the necessary infrastructure is there to support them. To grow our economy, it is important that we have resources for NI Water but also that there is alignment and understanding between the organisations developing the economy and the infrastructure.

Mr Chambers: The production tonnage of commercially farmed mussels in Belfast lough has fallen over recent years due to waste water pollution reducing the areas where it is safe to farm. Does the Minister have any concerns about the impact that that pollution may have on the future viability of a currently economically successful enterprise?

Mr C Murphy: I am concerned about anything that impacts on something that benefits and grows the economy. The resolution of such concerns lies with DAERA or the Department for Infrastructure, and I advise the Member to take up those concerns with them. However, from an economic perspective, we want to see all our industries continue to grow. We want to make sure that there are no barriers or obstacles put in the way of that. If, potentially, damage is being done to one of our industries, I share his concerns.

Mr Durkan: The Minister will be aware that water infrastructure in Derry is a key challenge facing the expansion of Magee, as referenced in the report by Stephen Kelly and the Magee task force. Has it been raised specifically in the Minister's conversations with his counterpart in the Department for Infrastructure?

Mr C Murphy: The Infrastructure Minister and all Ministers are aware in a general sense that we need to ensure that there is sufficient water and sewerage infrastructure to allow all the significant projects to which we are committed to go ahead. Department for Infrastructure officials will meet the task force in the near future, so the specific issues relating to the expansion of Magee can be put directly to them then.

Mr C Murphy: Tourism NI, on behalf of my Department, is committed to working with key partners to deliver even more benefits from the Open in 2025 than were generated in 2019. The previous event brought more than £100 million of combined economic and media benefit for the North, delivering huge global broadcast reach and PR coverage. Tourism NI is working closely with Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council, and both are on various multi-agency planning groups. The local business and community group, chaired by the council, is working with the Royal and Ancient Golf Club (R&A) and its suppliers on opportunities for jobs, training and volunteering for the local community, as well as on overall supply chain benefits. Work with partners is under way to deliver a local and international promotional campaign.

Mr Bradley: I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, the reason for the question was that there was a huge spin-off, which you mentioned, from the 2019 competition but Portrush was described as a "ghost town". There was very little footfall on the peninsula, and businesses and traders lost out in the overall economic benefit from the competition.

Mr C Murphy: That is why some of the work is about engaging with supply chains. That boosts not only the businesses in the town but the local economy and prosperity, which will have a longer effect. If people who live in the area benefit from such tournaments by supplying to and working with them, that prosperity is reflected in the footfall in local towns and shops.

Through Tourism NI and Tourism Ireland, part of our focus is to extend the season so that it is not linked simply to seaside towns in the summer season. Obviously, tournaments such as the Open bring a significant additional boost to whatever summer season activity there might be on the north coast. Part of our objective is to stretch the season so that we do get not the ghost town effect over the winter but more investment in businesses and, therefore, more attractions for people to visit over the winter months.

Mr McGuigan: Tourism and hospitality is obviously a key sector for the Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council area, which receives numerous visitors from overseas every year. What is the Minister doing to address the threat to tourism in the Causeway coast and glens area and across the North that is posed by the introduction of the British Government's electronic travel authorisation (ETA) scheme?

Mr C Murphy: I wrote to the Minister in the previous Government in Britain who was responsible for that and have consistently made clear my concerns about it. I concur with the sector and the industry's view that it will be potentially very damaging to us. I wrote to the Minister in the previous Administration in London, and, after the change in government, I wrote to the new Minister for Migration and Citizenship, Seema Malhotra, seeking an urgent meeting on the matter. I am pleased to say that she responded to me last week and has agreed to meet me when I am in London next month. I intend to raise the matter directly with her.

Ms Mulholland: Minister, will you give us your assessment of the impact that short-term lets and the likes of unregulated holiday homes and Airbnbs will have on tourism, particularly along the north coast, where we have such a difficulty with our housing crisis?

Mr C Murphy: Tourism NI has a responsibility for the certification of a range of tourism properties, including potential overnight stay properties. Beyond those, there is a proliferation of things like Airbnbs and other places that offer more casual stays. I know that that is impacting, because it has been raised with me in relation to the availability of homes for people in areas like the north coast. Tourism NI, along with the Department, is looking at the legislation that governs how it approaches the issue to see whether it can be reviewed and expanded into other areas in order to have some impact. At present, there is no ability to cap provision in any sector, so we intend to look at the issue. It has been raised with us increasingly in regard to the potential impact not just on other tourism providers but on home availability. It is something that we will want to look at in the time ahead.

Mr Crawford: Following on from Mr Bradley's question, what engagement has the Minister had with Executive colleagues about supporting local businesses to ensure maximum trading opportunities during the Open?

Mr C Murphy: Up in Royal Portrush Golf Club, the Minister of Finance and I met the local chamber of commerce and got a briefing on the tournament, how it is being organised and all the spin-offs that, it is hoped, will be achieved from it. Of course, our agencies are fully engaged in ensuring that it is as beneficial as it can be, not just in the coverage that it gets and the visitors that it attracts but in the spin-off to the local community from the supply chain and other opportunities that there might be. We will continue to engage on that.

All the Executive members are excited about the prospect of the Open coming here next year. I am sure that the First Minister and deputy First Minister will be involved in promoting it to make sure that it is the best tournament possible, but I am happy to work with all Executive colleagues to make sure that we get maximum benefit out of it.

Mr Gaston: I encourage the Minister to work with Mid and East Antrim Borough Council as well as Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council to promote and highlight two of our great assets on the north coast: our world heritage sites, namely the Giant's Causeway and the newly designated Moravian settlement at Gracehill. Can the Minister assure me that both of those world heritage sites will be included as part of the promotional package and marketing campaign that he talks about for Royal Portrush?

Mr C Murphy: The entire North will be covered in the marketing campaign for the tournament, because the visitors who come here do not come for just three or four days on the north coast. They will go across the region, and there will be a significant marketing effort to ensure that they come here, stay, enjoy it, spend money and, perhaps, spend longer than the duration of the tournament. If the Member watched the coverage of the Irish Open from County Down last month, he will have seen that the promotional material that was shown in the breaks from the golf highlighted all of our tourist attractions and landscapes across the North and across the island generally. There will be a significant push to make sure that we maximise the benefit across the board.

Mr O'Toole: I agree that golf events can be a driver of tourism — pun intended; I'm here all week. My question relates to the extension of the two tourism brands — Ireland's Ancient East and the Wild Atlantic Way — that cover areas close to Royal Portrush and Royal County Down. Last month, I was at the Irish Open and saw some Ireland's Ancient East branding. Minister, according to the business plan, your Department's target is to extend them to January 2025. Is that on target? When will we see it rolled out more widely?

Mr C Murphy: We are in dialogue. We set up a working group for the three tourism agencies — Fáilte Ireland, Tourism Northern Ireland and Tourism Ireland — and both Departments to work through the issues. We are making progress. Some of the branding might be quicker than other bits, but, as the Member will be aware, there is already a scheme funded through the Shared Island Fund in relation to the Fáilte brand and how it links with the north coast. I think that about €9 million is being spent there on supporting people to engage with that. Yes, it is something that we are focused on. I will meet Minister Martin at next month's North/South sectoral meeting. There has already been a meeting of the inter-agency group that is dealing with it, and we hope to make progress on that in the near future.

Mr C Murphy: The 'Digital Skills Action Plan 2024-2034' seeks to develop alternative pathways into the digital sector via upskilling and reskilling. The courses are delivered through the universities and subregional network of colleges with a focus on online provision. Enabling online delivery is particularly beneficial for people in rural areas. Project Stratum is improving broadband services for over 80,000 premises that were previously unable to access services of 30 megabits per second. Some 97% of those premises are in the open countryside or in settlements with populations of fewer than 1,000 people.

Project Gigabit will address premises that are unable to access gigabyte-capable broadband and that are not part of the suppliers' commercial plans.

Mr McGlone: Minister, as you know, Mid Ulster is a well-established manufacturing hub. It is also particularly vulnerable to automation, so the digital skills are particularly important to develop there. What specific digital skills plans does your Department have for the industry, and, particularly, what plans does your Department have in a wider area to maximise and optimise the best use of AI?

Mr C Murphy: We are engaging with that. Last week, I spoke at a conference on AI to make sure that it is part of our plan. There is a significant debate on the use of AI: some people see it as a threat; other people see it as an advantage. It is an effective tool that can be used in a beneficial way if it is used properly. We do need to engage with that. The purpose of Project Stratum and Project Gigabit was to ensure that people were connected, so that they have the ability to access online services and content, and to ensure that we develop courses and skilling opportunities in such a way that people can access those. There is a spread of courses across our regional network of colleges and delivered online to make sure that those are available to people.

We are increasingly getting into the use of AI and determining how that will be used. In the not-too-distant future, I intend to bring a paper to the Executive to discuss how the Executive, as a whole, engage in the whole area of AI. That is to make sure that we have policy in that regard, a clear understanding of what possible benefits it can bring and what use it can be in our own public-sector services and for the growth of economy.

Ms Nicholl: I am conscious that lifelong learning will be really important in delivering the digital skills pipeline. I am curious as to what plans the Minister has to address the cultural perception that learning stops when you enter the workplace. This will be so important. What plans and programmes does he have to enhance that?

Mr C Murphy: The plan for digital skills focuses on lifelong learning and access to that area, so it is about reskilling and upskilling. In addition, the £12 million that we set aside at the start of the summer for skills is focused on lifelong learning. That will be critical because, to have a fairly high level of employment, in order to try to continue to grow our businesses and our economy, we need to be able to access people who are not currently economically active and upskill people who are already in work and to create courses. That is why a lot of those courses have been created with, in particular, our small and medium-sized economy in mind, because it is difficult to release people from small companies, and to ensure that they are online and accessible, including to women, who may be returning from caring duties. There is as much a focus on reskilling as there is on bringing people into those areas of work at entry level.

Ms Á Murphy: Minister, can you detail where exactly the digital skills courses will be rolled out and delivered?

Mr C Murphy: As I said, it will be a mixture of online courses, largely focused through the regional colleges. South West College and all the regional colleges will be engaged in this. We have an excellent network of campuses, right across the North, and that estate has been added to. I had an opportunity to go to Coleraine to the opening of a new campus last week. It is a very effective way of delivering those courses to make sure that they get right into local communities and to make sure that people in rural communities can benefit from them.

I would advise people from the Member's constituency to engage with South West College to ensure that they are aware of what is available. As I say, the intention is to do a lot of this online so that travel, childcare and other issues, which, traditionally, reduce the opportunities for people to engage in learning, will, hopefully, be mitigated.

Mr C Murphy: The apprenticeship levy was imposed by the British Government on both our public and private sectors. The Independent Fiscal Commission concluded that there is a strong case for devolving the levy, not least because it complements the Executive's responsibility for economic development and skills. I will consider the implications of the new growth and skills levy, which the British Government recently announced to replace the apprenticeship levy. Having done that, and as necessary, I will liaise with my colleague the Finance Minister, who is responsible for leading on fiscal matters with the British Government.

Mrs Dodds: We all know that the apprenticeship levy, as was, caused significant consternation for businesses who feel that they contribute a lot but get nothing back. Will the Minister tell the House how much money is involved in that and whether doing it locally, but ring-fencing money for skills, would be of benefit to the economy?

Mr C Murphy: The latest figures show that approximately £73 million was raised by businesses here. The difficulty for us is that that is not ring-fenced; it comes as part of the block grant. I would gladly welcome £73 million coming into the Department to be put towards apprenticeships and skills, but that is a debate for the Executive as a whole because they would be taking it off other critical public services.

I get the frustration of businesses about their input when they do not see the value of the output coming back to them. We invest about £30 million in apprenticeship training annually, but, still, a consistent theme that I hear from businesses that I meet is that they do not see the value of their investment. I am sure that, when the Member meets businesses, she hears the same. I am interested to see what changes the current Government might make in relation to that. Of course, we will make representations like that to them, to say that we need to see the benefit coming back to us.

Mr Baker: How many apprentices are currently being funded by the Department?

Mr C Murphy: As I said, the Department invests about £30 million annually in apprenticeships: from level 2 apprentices who leave school at 16 to those who take up a higher level apprenticeship. Over 13,000 people are undertaking employment and learning through our apprenticeship programmes.

Mr C Murphy: I met the social enterprise co-design group recently to receive an update on its progress. The group’s initial focus is on strengthening the commercial base of social enterprises. Early recommendations include appointing champions in Invest NI, InterTradeIreland and local councils; building stronger leadership skills for social entrepreneurs and their board members; and better use of procurement frameworks. The initial action plan is being finalised, and I hope to publish it in the coming weeks.

Mr Kelly: Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas.

How will the work of the co-design group progress the recommendations in the independent report on community wealth building?

Mr C Murphy: The independent report on community wealth building recommended a strategy for the sector. The action plan will tackle the strategic issues that face the sector. By taking a more flexible approach, there will be a quicker impact on the ground for the sector as it seeks to grow and expand sustainable social businesses in the North.

Mr Brett: In the three-year action plan for your Department, Minister, you indicated that you would launch the social enterprise action plan and three-year work plan in September 2024. Can you give me an update as to where that is, as we are now in October?

Mr C Murphy: As I said, the co-design group has been working on that. As the Member will remember, one of the first initiatives that I took when I came into office was to up the funding to social enterprise and give it a higher profile in its contribution to the economy. We are developing an action plan; the social enterprise co-design group is working on that. I have met the group in recent times to hear from it. I expect to have that action plan delivered to me very soon. I will publish that and share it with the Committee in due course.

Mr Dickson: Minister, social enterprises and the broader social and economic community have an important role to play in regenerating our communities, particularly in building social capital. Will you update the House on your review of the scoring of social-value policy?

Mr C Murphy: As the Member will know, I introduced that when I was Minister of Finance. It sits at 10%, with the intent to move it to 20% in due course. From conversations with the current Minister of Finance, I understand that she is looking very closely at that. We want to ensure that the sector is ready to engage with that increase in business opportunities. Bodies such as the social enterprise co-design group are looking at strengthening the commercial side of social enterprises — their boards and leadership — so that they are much fitter to engage with the opportunities that will arise from a higher level of social value and procurement. I am sure that the Minister of Finance will be able to give the Member a time frame for that. I know that she is looking at it very seriously.

Mr C Murphy: Regional balance is a commitment in the draft Programme for Government. In line with that commitment, I announced a new approach to regional economic development last week. Invest NI subsequently launched its business strategy for consultation. In the strategy, the new regional operating model is prioritised.

The business strategy includes a commitment to increase the headcount of regional offices by an initial 40%. It also commits Invest NI to delivering 65% of its investments outside the Belfast metropolitan area by the end of the three-year period. It is the first time that Invest NI has set corporate regional targets. My Department and Invest NI are firmly committed to delivering greater regional economic balance.

Mr McAleer: I thank the Minister for his response. Will local enterprise agencies be involved in local economic partnerships?

Mr C Murphy: We will work through the detail in the time ahead. I have not been very specific, other than to say to councils that it has to be a genuine partnership. It is therefore not just money to supplement what councils had already intended to spend. We anticipate and expect people who have an economic input in local areas to be part of that. The enterprise agencies have played a critical role in start-ups and in business growth throughout the areas where they are based, so I would be very surprised if they do not form part of the local economic partnerships.

Mr Honeyford: Last week, the Minister announced the really welcome regional balance direction, saying that it will require recruitment of additional specialist staff. Setting aside those new staff, what further work will now be undertaken to ensure that Invest NI starts doing things differently and delivers a more efficient service, in line with the Lyons review?

Mr C Murphy: Part of the work that is being developed now is a consequence of the Lyons report on Invest NI, which found that it was much too Belfast-centric. It needed a stronger and more dynamic regional presence. Critical to that are the personnel that Invest NI has in its office and what they will do. That is the discussion that we have been having.

Invest NI presented its own business plan on the heels of my announcement of our regional development plan, so we expect significant and targeted growth in activity across regional offices and specific engagement of Invest NI staff with council staff. Where there is perhaps in some council areas not the same level of economic development capacity among council staff, we expect Invest NI to support and mentor in order to raise the level of economic activity and council staff's economic skills. Moreover, we expect it to work directly with local economic partnerships to make sure that they are as adept as they can be in advancing and articulating their economic needs and that those needs are delivered on in the time ahead.

Mr C Murphy: The interim report emphasises the need for a coordinated, cross-government approach to achieve the expansion of Magee. It identifies asks for various Departments, and I have written to my Executive colleagues to secure their commitment to achieving those.

Progress is being made on the asks. For example, I recently announced my intention to provide access to tuition fee loans to graduate-entry medical school students here, in collaboration with the Department of Health. Officials are finalising the membership and terms of reference for the cross-departmental group, building on ongoing engagement with Departments. The Department of Health is already a member of the task force, and Department for Infrastructure officials will be presenting to the task force this week. The task force is on course to produce the final action plan by the end of the year.

Ms McLaughlin: Minister, thank you for that answer. Will the oversight group publish regular progress updates, and will any barriers or blockages be brought directly to the Executive so that any issues can be overcome quickly?

Mr C Murphy: The commitment to 10,000 students at Magee is now part of the draft Programme for Government, which means that it is a whole-Executive commitment. As I said, it is my intention to raise the report and the asks within it with Executive colleagues and to ask that they engage. A lot of departmental officials are already engaging, and the work has been productive so far. If issues arise that present obstacles or barriers, we will want to address those as quickly as possible, and, if need be, I will look to Executive colleagues to support us in that.

Mr Delargy: Minister, how much funding has been committed to the Magee expansion so far?

Mr C Murphy: To date, £152 million has been committed to the Magee campus expansion. That includes £38 million from the Shared Island Fund for a new teaching block and investments from city deals, the Inclusive Future Fund and Ulster University's own reserves. Additionally, my Department's 2024-25 budget included £4 million in resource funding and £14·7 million in capital funding for Magee's expansion. Those funds are being used to support additional student places, enhance the physical environment, carry out communications and marketing activities, and acquire land and buildings.

Mr Speaker: That concludes the period for listed questions to the Minister for the Economy. We now move to topical questions.

Mr C Murphy: First, had you listened to the interview in full, you would have heard me say, on a number of occasions, that my party had no information on Mr McMonagle's whereabouts beyond the time when we suspended him, so I was not, in fact, in a position to advise the British Heart Foundation on his employment. The party leadership was not aware that he worked for that organisation at that time. I went on to offer an opinion on what the process might be if someone had information, and what jeopardy there might be in that regard. I am happy to accept the Chief Constable's view on that. I absolutely concur on the due diligence issue: I accept absolutely that I did not have all the information and that, therefore, I should not have commented on that. I am happy to share in the apology that the First Minister made and that which was offered by my party president yesterday.

Ms McLaughlin: I thank the Minister for that answer. At every point along this journey, it has been a safeguarding issue. There are innocent children and victims at the heart of the matter. Would you be happy to engage in a wider inquiry into the multiple aspects of the failure of due process and due diligence?

Mr C Murphy: My party will certainly conduct an inquiry into the processes that were applied, and we will seek outside assistance on that. I have to say that this matter is not unique to my party. Your party had issues with a councillor in South Down, which brought it into conflict with Rape Crisis when it refused to suspend him even after he had been charged. All of us have had lessons to learn over the years in how to deal with those issues, and all of us need to improve. My party is no different to any other in that regard. Of course, my party will look at the lessons to be learned from this. We will seek professional advice to ensure that our processes are as robust and safe as they can be. Safeguarding is our primary concern. We need to ensure that the processes reflect that.

Mr Kearney: Tá ceist agam ort, a Aire, maidir leis an dréacht-Bhille atá faoi chomhairliúchán agat i láthair na huaire.

Mr C Murphy: The Member may be aware that the consultation closed on 30 September. We had 192 responses to the consultation, which is quite significant. As I am sure that the Member is aware, we did a lot of pre-consultation, as well as the consultation during the process, and will continue the dialogue with those organisations, particularly business organisations and trade unions. Those have been productive conversations. Where we have managed, on many occasions now, to get trade unions into the room with business organisations, those have been productive conversations because they lead to a much greater understanding of the balance between protecting workers' rights and the needs of businesses at times. We will obviously assess the responses to the consultation, and we will begin the legislative process next year with the clear intent to bring the Bill through the Assembly processes before the mandate is out.

Mr Kearney: Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin.

I commend you, Minister, on the depth of your commitment to engaging with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and other social partners, and for your commitment to social dialogue, which is a critical model for how we move forward the development of economic policy in this region. Will you give an assurance that, beyond the consultation and the introduction of the Bill, you will continue to refine that engagement with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and other partners?

Mr C Murphy: I have made a commitment, in my previous ministerial posts and, certainly, in this one, to co-design as it is the best way to develop policy, be it on employment rights, with the trade unions and business organisations, or any of the areas in which we are trying to develop and grow the economy. That is why we set up a co-design group for social enterprise and have working groups on tourism and other matters: those engagements reflect the best. Policy is strongest when you engage with the people who are at the coalface and are on the receiving end of that policy. I am absolutely committed to that, and I very much value the input of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in that and in a range of areas that the Department has been dealing with. I look forward to continued engagement with it.

Mr C Murphy: I presume that the Member is referring to the tourism strategy.

Mr Mathison: A careers portal.

Mr Speaker: A careers portal.

Mr C Murphy: Sorry, I beg your pardon. I picked you up wrong.

The Minister of Education and I agreed, at the first Executive meeting following the restoration of the Assembly, I think, on the importance of developing consistent careers advice. We have worked together on that, and continue to do so, and are making substantial progress. We want to ensure that careers advice is consistent and delivered uniformly to every child to ensure that every school has access to it. That has not been the case in the past and it is not the case now. We want to make sure that that advice is as up to date as it can be in a very fast-moving technological world. Part of that will be a careers portal that will allow parents to access the same information, rather than having to rely on what is delivered through the schools. We have been working on that diligently, and I hope that we will be able to make some announcements on it in the not-too-distant future.

Mr Mathison: I thank the Minister for that update and am sorry if my question was not delivered clearly. Will the Minister provide information on what engagement he has had with businesses in Northern Ireland on the development of the careers portal to ensure that it will be fit for purpose?

Mr C Murphy: We have a careers advisory council, so all those matters are interlinked. Business organisations and people with senior business experience are involved in that council. Ongoing contact on careers between ourselves, businesses, trade unions and others is critical, because we have a very fast-moving and growing technological sector.

Our reputation is strongest on skills. When we talk to people internationally about investing here, the number-one factor for them is skills. We need to work collaboratively with businesses, colleges, universities and other training providers to make sure that we are as up to date and flexible as we can be on what particular skills are required at any given time. That is why we continue to operate skills academies and other bespoke skills training support for specific areas of need, such as in manufacturing in Mid Ulster and fintech in areas of Belfast. We continue to work on that. Dialogue with businesses is critical to making sure that we are clear about the kind of careers pipeline that is needed to grow the economy and the businesses that are already well placed to deliver that.

Mr C Murphy: As I said in response to a previous question, had you listened to the full interview, you would understand that I made it clear that I had no information about Mr McMonagle. I then went on to have a theoretical discussion with the journalist about what the responsibility of an employing organisation would be in those circumstances. I accept the Chief Constable's take on that and am happy to bow to his greater knowledge of the law on such matters. I am content with that.

Mr Dunne: What due diligence did you, as Economy Minister, carry out before making those inaccurate comments? Will you correct the public record and apologise clearly?

Mr C Murphy: As I said, I offered an opinion. That opinion has been corrected by the Chief Constable's view that, if someone had information — it is very clear that I did not, nor did my party leadership — it would not be inappropriate to pass it on to a subsequent potential employer. I am very happy for that to be corrected. If that is the view of the Chief Constable, I am very happy to accept that.

Mr C Murphy: The total amount allocated to the Department for the Economy for flood support is £9·7 million. That includes £1·1 million for the £7,500 flood support scheme and up to £8·6 million to cover costs associated with the enhanced flood support scheme, business hardship schemes and the reimbursement of council clean-up costs. As the councils are still administering those schemes, it is not possible to provide an accurate estimate of the projected underspend.

Mrs Mason: I thank the Minister for his response. Businesses in Downpatrick have really welcomed the scheme as a lifeline as they try to get back on their feet, but, as you will know, many of them are still struggling. There are also a number of sports clubs in the areas that have been impacted on, and they have received no support at all. Can you provide any detail of plans for any surplus finances and whether that money could go towards further supporting businesses and sporting organisations in Downpatrick?

Mr C Murphy: Newry, Mourne and Down District Council intends to write to me shortly to set out how it believes that any underspend could be utilised. On the basis of discussion with council officials, it is anticipated that it will suggest that the money be reallocated elsewhere, such as some being reallocated to the Department for Infrastructure to administer a flood mitigation scheme. We are very happy to receive those propositions, look at areas that perhaps have not received support and try to ensure that the entirety of that money is spent on flood mitigation and support in that area.

Mr C Murphy: The university is an autonomous body when it comes to its appointments and recruitment. That question has been sent to me in written form, and the response that was delivered to people is that that is the university's responsibility. I saw a public statement somewhere in which it outlined the appointments process for the, I think, two posts that it created for Dr Farry and another person. The university has responsibility for that: it is not a responsibility for the Department. The university has autonomy in how it makes appointments.

Mr K Buchanan: Thank you for your answer, Minister. You, obviously, hold responsibility for higher education and employment rights. A recent communication from the Equality Commission mentions equality of opportunity. Was there equality of opportunity in that process? Will you commit to tasking your officials with conducting an investigation and reporting back to the House on their findings?

Mr C Murphy: As I said, the university has autonomy. It may well be the case that your colleague beside you on the Committee invites it up here to have a discussion about the issue. The Department is not involved in the university's recruitment processes. I am very happy to ask questions and seek information from the university, but, as I said, it is responsible for its own recruitment processes. The university has outlined how it appointed in accordance with the rules and regulations that govern it — I saw a public response that it provided. However, if others wish to interrogate that further, that is a matter for them.

Mr C Murphy: First, the foundation has not been slurred by me. Secondly, although a person was informed, we learned of that only last Thursday. The party leadership, which was responsible for dealing with Mr McMonagle, was not aware of his movements, engagements or employment after he was suspended from our party.

We were not aware that two people had given him references until the Wednesday before our ard-fheis, which was at the end of September, and we were not aware until last Thursday that that had been verified by a person from HR.

Corporately, the party, which was dealing with the issue, was not aware of any of the actions of any of those three people. Therefore, we were not in a position to advise the British Heart Foundation of any matter in relation to his employment. That has been put out by the First Minister as a matter of record, and I concur with it. I also concur with all her sentiments in relation to the British Heart Foundation and those of my party president.

Mrs Erskine: Minister, I asked this: will you directly apologise to the British Heart Foundation?

Mr C Murphy: If she had listened to my previous answers, she would find that I have done so directly. I am happy to repeat it for her so that she can understand. I apologise for not engaging in all the facts in relation to the due diligence issues that we talked about in some of the interviews. Had I known all the facts, I certainly would not have made those comments.

Mr Speaker: That concludes questions to the Minister for the Economy. Members may take their ease for a moment before we resume our business.

Ms D Armstrong: I welcome the chance to talk about one of the most important issues facing Northern Ireland: the future of social care. There is no doubt that the system that we have is far from perfect. In fact, with still rapidly growing demand being increased by a rapidly ageing population, it is imperative that we take action now to get ahead of that while we can. Thankfully, when looking at the 48 proposals for reform that were revealed as part of the 2022 public consultation, I was glad to see the emphasis that is being placed on increasing not only the quantity of social care but the quality.

Without our social care workers, we simply would not have any provision. That is why our social care workforce is and remains one of the most important groups of all. That workforce allows our older people to remain at home. For those who cannot, social care workers are essential in supporting them to live well with their non-clinical needs. Any one of us who has had family members receive that care will have seen at first hand just how tirelessly our social care staff work day and night to provide quality care to many of the most vulnerable. That is especially true in constituencies such as mine, Fermanagh and South Tyrone. Every day huge numbers of people are assisted, regardless of whether they live in towns or at the bottom of any of our long and meandering farm lanes.

Of course, there is also a very important crossover between working in health and working in social care. Without the providers and workforce that we have, our hospitals simply could not or would not function. Whilst patient flow through our hospitals is often a problem, the situation would be even worse were it not for our social care system, which often goes above and beyond. That is why I very much support the key proposals to improve pay and terms and conditions for the social care workforce.

Yet, none of us, I am sure, are oblivious to the remaining challenges that are weighing down the sector. That is why I was glad that, earlier this year, a further cash injection was made. Unfortunately, however, despite the growing demand for social care, the Health budget that was agreed earlier this year fell far short of the recognised levels of need. Nevertheless, I absolutely recognise that the solutions are not dependent solely on funding.

We know that some aspects of the current system do not work in the way that we need them to. To address that, we need to look more widely at how social care is organised, commissioned, delivered and led. In addition, I especially welcome the previous consultation's focus on including greater powers to regulate and inspect independent sector providers of care. Every year, the role of independent sector provision becomes more important. Those powers must be seen not as a detriment to that provision but as something that works in the interests of everyone, including service users, providers and, fundamentally, those who pay for the service, be that individuals, families or the state.

I return to the fundamental issue of the workforce, because, without it, we would have nothing. That is why that issue is so important for the long-term sustainability of the sector and why it has to be tackled. I hope that the House sends a unanimous message today that social care is a good, rewarding and incredibly important career. I look forward to seeing reforms in the time ahead that further strengthen and stabilise our social care workforce and the sector as a whole.

Mrs Dillon: I thank the Members who tabled the motion. I support the motion and the amendment.

We know the problems that face countless families across the North who are being failed by the current social care system. It is overstretched and underfunded. The issues affect everyone from our elderly and the most vulnerable to the workers who care for them. It has been seven years since the 'Power to People' report was commissioned, and we still face the same challenges: persistent workforce shortages, care home capacity constraints and long waits for community care packages. Those issues were only made worse by the COVID pandemic and the number of people who came out of the caring profession at that time.

In rural areas, such as my constituency of Mid Ulster, the challenges are even more severe. Families wait far too long for care packages, and care workers face travelling long distances and inadequate support. They are not funded to drive those distances or to provide the care that they provide; we know that. The Minister is well aware of that. The Department is looking at all those issues. I attended a meeting with Carers NI and carers from rural communities last week. They told me nothing that, unfortunately, I did not already know as a representative of a rural constituency. We know that the challenges for those in our rural communities are much more difficult.

The Reimagine Children's Collective, which we spoke about this morning, brings together 10 major charities, and it has echoed those concerns in its recent briefing on children's social care. It highlighted all the struggles that we will have without urgent reforms. I note that some commentary in the debate this morning was about collaboration: I absolutely agree with that. We need collaboration across Departments, but we need it mostly with our communities and the community and voluntary sector, because they really can deliver the services at good value. We need to ensure that that collaboration happens.

The amendment also brings an important issue to the forefront: unfair and inconsistent charging for adult social care. In areas such as Mid Ulster, where incomes are often lower and services more difficult to access, those inconsistencies hit families hardest. Independent price regulation is essential to ensure fairness. No family should have to choose between paying for care and other basic necessities.

Additionally, I emphasise the need for early intervention and prevention in both adult and children's care. Again, that point was covered in the debate on the motion this morning. We know that early intervention can make a real difference. I spoke about Sure Start, but many programmes deliver early intervention. I know that tackling health inequalities is a priority for the Minister. We will be able to do that only through early intervention programmes. I look forward to hearing what the Minister will say on that.

The community and voluntary sector, as I said, plays a vital role. We must ensure that it is properly resourced. It is not just about the amount of money that it gets — I know that the sector has made the Minister well aware of that point and that it is being looked at — it is about how the sector is funded and how the groups can work together on funding, instead of doing what we have done for years, where everybody looks at one pot and thinks, "How can I get some out of that?". They want to work together, and we need to fund them in a way that allows them to work together.

We must listen to the people whom we serve. We must listen to the families who are struggling in our rural areas. We must listen to the children and young people who require our services. We need a family charter that is co-designed with young people and parents. That would ensure that families know what to expect from the system and have recourse if standards are not met.

This is about equity, dignity and fairness. Social care reform cannot wait any longer. We have been presented with the tools to address the issues, and we now need to take the issue in hand and work with people such as the Reimagine Children's Collective and others to deliver on that. For our elderly, our carers and our children in Mid Ulster and in rural constituencies across the North, there can be no more delays. We need to work together to create a social care system that reflects the values of fairness and compassion and serves all citizens of the North equally, no matter where they live.

Ms K Armstrong: I declare an interest today because I have been a carer for most of my adult life: first, for my brother Michael, who has sadly passed away, and now for my father. My father is in receipt of social care support twice a day.

Care in the community depends on an effective social care system, but, from day one, the problem has been that the need for care in the community was set out and the plans were put in place but there was no preparatory work done to ensure that appropriate care was available in the community to support it.

Today, I want to talk about the older population. Northern Ireland has an older population, and we will see that demographic increase over the next number of years. While people live longer and many are healthier in old age, an increasing number of people are not in good health in their old age and will need support to continue to live at home. Too many have not received chronic pain support; too many have their mobility severely limited because of hip or knee replacement waiting lists; and the number of older people living with life-changing health conditions has increased. Many live in fear, the fear of how much it will cost in their old age, if they need residential care. That is why we will support the DUP amendment to our motion.

I have spoken to many older people who do not believe that their needs are being met by the health service. They feel that they are a problem for the health service. The care that they receive is limited and takes too long to access, and those comments were made specifically in respect of domiciliary care, particularly when the older person lives in a rural area. They have also told me that they apologise regularly to ambulance drivers if they are having to hold up an ambulance, as they see it, outside a hospital while waiting for a bed. That is not good enough.
According to the Alzheimer's Association, the social care system is not set up properly to deliver care that meets the needs of people, from the association's point of view, with dementia. In fact, many people living with dementia continue to be reliant on the social care system to help manage their symptoms. They will continue to require accessible, high-quality, affordable, personalised care, and it is therefore vital that the current and future care system is fit for purpose. That could be achieved through a fairly paid and sufficiently resourced workforce that is trained to understand the specialist needs associated with old age and dementia.

Social care systems must also recognise the value of unpaid care provided by families and loved ones. Local systems must proactively assess unpaid carers' needs, as per the statutory duty, on, at least, an annual basis and meet those needs through support and access to respite care to allow sufficient breaks from caring. Unpaid carers save the health service an absolute fortune. They prevent the health service from being bankrupt, but the pressure on them is crippling them.

Addressing the current insufficient and fragmented funding model must be a priority, and, as Ms Dillon has just mentioned, that fragmented funding model leads to silo working as opposed to joined-up working. It shifts the responsibility of care to individuals and families to achieve the vision of care in the community.

As a sector, adult social care contributes significantly to the economy in Northern Ireland. It is estimated to be worth around £1 billion, and that is in Northern Ireland. Cost savings are being met on the backs of unpaid carers, and, as others said earlier, a carers register is definitely needed.

I go back to dementia. People living with dementia make up around 60% of the people who draw on care at home in the UK, and 70% of those in residential care live with dementia. People living with or impacted by dementia often face catastrophic care costs. An individual with dementia spends, on average, around £100,000 on care in their lifetime. Therefore, it is important that we have a long-term social care workforce strategy. It should be mandatory for all GPs and care staff to undertake high-quality dementia training that is mapped to the dementia training standards framework or an equivalent standard. That recommendation was also made in the UK's Skills for Care workforce strategy, which was brought out in July 2024.

There needs to be a sustainable funding model for quality personal care that is centred on achieving affordable care for everyone living with dementia and other conditions. There also needs to be improved support for unpaid carers through proactively offered needs assessments and access to appropriate respite care. Today's motion, hopefully, sets out to the Minister the support that there is in the House for an improved social care system.

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: I call the Minister of Health, Mr Mike Nesbitt, to respond to the debate. Minister, you will have 15 minutes.

Mr Nesbitt (The Minister of Health): Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I thank the mover of the motion and the mover of the amendment.

I understand the frustration that many have expressed regarding the pace of reform in our social care system since 'Power to People' was published in 2017. I take this moment to emphasise that progress has been made, particularly in the context of significant external pressures and challenges that have impacted on the pace of reform.

Since the publication of the report, there has been sustained commitment to transforming our social care system. Several initiatives to address the systemic issues identified in the 'Power to People' report have moved forward. First, my predecessor, Robin Swann, consulted on proposals to deliver the vision outlined in 'Power to People'. The public consultation took place during 2022. It set out proposals to address the issues facing social care and to put in place tangible actions to create change that would significantly improve services. The post-consultation report was published last year. That consultation was by no means the end point; rather, it represented the groundwork necessary to ensure that the reform process was both sustainable and transformative in the longer term.

As Members have noted, one of the most significant developments since that consultation has been the establishment of the social care collaborative forum. The forum has provided a vital space to bring together a wide range of stakeholders, including front-line staff, care providers, policymakers, union representatives, regulators, representative bodies and service users. The forum's aim is to develop short-term solutions to alleviate immediate pressures and longer-term strategies for sustainable reform. Through that collaborative effort, key policy development priorities have been identified, and work is under way to address some of the most pressing challenges.

One of the first actions taken forward by the forum was to map the reform of adult social care consultation proposals against the forum work streams to ensure that, where we can, the reforms are delivered. Some of them will be delivered more quickly than others. Some will require legislative change. The vast majority will require additional and sustained investment to ensure that they make the transformational changes envisaged by the 'Power to People' report.

Through the work of the forum in 2023-24, we have implemented early review teams in the trusts, with a view to developing a regional model to monitor and review service users' home care needs and packages of home care, with almost 1,100 home care hours being recovered and allocated to cases of unmet need. We have also implemented improved digital solutions in trusts to more effectively manage the change in home care packages. We have sought to better promote social care as a valuable career choice by delivering the Making a Difference promotional campaign to showcase the value and diversity of social care, which includes the podcast series, 'Care to chat?', video stories showcasing the value of social care and digital posts about social care. Work in 2024-25 will focus on building a sustainable workforce, on improving commissioning and contracting arrangements and on developing improved partnership working.

One of the critical recommendations in 'Power to People' was the urgent need to address the social care workforce crisis, and significant steps have been taken to prioritise that. Although we continue to experience challenges, the sector has been prioritised for funding in recent years. The development of the social care workforce strategy also marks a considerable achievement by laying the foundations for addressing recruitment and retention issues in the sector. The strategy is central to resolving many of the workforce challenges that we face. It sets out a clear path to attract, train and retain the skilled staff necessary to deliver high-quality social care. The strategy focuses not just on immediate recruitment but on long-term development, offering a framework that recognises the importance of ongoing development and career progression for social care staff. Those measures are crucial, given the critical role that the workforce plays in delivering front-line care and in supporting those in need across the health and social care spectrum.

Some Members have said that not enough is being done on delivery and that we continue to consult rather than implement. The implementation of the workforce strategy will commence by the beginning of next year, and I am confident that the strategy will address many of the concerns that Members have raised about recruitment, retention, recognition and, indeed, remuneration. Additionally, initiatives to improve staff well-being and to ensure fair pay are ongoing, and those initiatives will undoubtedly have a positive impact on addressing staff shortages over time.

Work is ongoing through the social care fair work forum to build a case for change that seeks to highlight the potential impacts and benefits to be realised by raising wages in the social care sector to a real living wage. Although significant challenges remain, the collaborative work involving the Department of Health, the social care collaborative forum and workforce representatives has been instrumental in bringing us closer to a more sustainable workforce model. The forum's supporting carers work stream is currently commissioning a regional evaluation of the outcomes of the implementation of the Caring for Carers strategy from 2006. Work is due to begin shortly, and, on completion, my officials will identify relevant learning and key findings to inform the future strategic direction.

Cross-departmental work is also ongoing to consider how we can work collaboratively across government to address the issues identified in 'A New Deal for unpaid carers in Northern Ireland' from 2023. The current 'Care Standards for Nursing Homes' and the 'Residential Care Homes Minimum Standards' documents set out the requirements for registration and inspection of providers by the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA) to ensure that there is a consistency of approach and that residents, families and providers have a clear understanding of the standards that they can expect to receive or provide. People living in nursing homes have specific and sometimes complex needs, which usually arise from their own healthcare requirements. It is therefore important that the standards reflect the most recent developments, guidance, policy and procedures in order to ensure the provision of a safe and effective service with the appropriate quality of care.

I accept that the standards need a comprehensive review to ensure that they are fully reflective of best practice, learning and guidance and that they are relevant to the current environment in which the care sector operates. A working group, chaired by my officials, has been established to undertake a review of those standards. That review will involve ongoing collaboration and engagement with relevant social care stakeholders to ensure that there is clarity between what is considered to be best practice and what will be measured under the inspection frameworks. An initial exercise has been completed to identify potential gaps and revisions that may be necessary. My officials are considering next steps to revise the standards. Those revised standards will require consultation, and Members will have the opportunity to consider them in due course.

Members have also raised the issue of VAT recovery, and, as I have said previously, significant work is under way to consider the nature of that change, any potential operational, legal and regulatory implications and associated resources that may be required to allow for the recovery of VAT by independent care homes in Northern Ireland. A project manager and dedicated legal resources have now been appointed to drive that work forward as part of the wider review of the care homes contract. Legal colleagues have advised that it is not going to be possible to separate the issues of VAT reclamation from the wider review of the contract. Concerns have also been raised about the potential impact on smaller care homes, which may not be in a position to reclaim VAT, and that is being considered as part of the review. Officials also continue to liaise with counterparts in Great Britain, at departmental and local authority level, to gain a better understanding of the implementation and outworking of the VAT reclamation. It is paramount that any changes to the contractual arrangements between trusts and providers be reflected in the HSC care homes contract. The current HSC care homes contract that sets out the terms and conditions under which trusts commission services from care home providers has been in place for several years now and requires substantial revision.

As we move forward, I remain committed to tackling health inequalities and ensuring that social care reform remains a priority. By addressing these iniquities, we can build a system that not only provides high-quality care but does so in a way that is fair and equitable, ensuring that all individuals, regardless of their circumstances, have access to the services that they need when they need them.

My Department annually reviews the regional tariff rate for residents placed in residential care and in nursing home care, and the regional tariff rate is compiled on the basis of a breakdown of the costs of care. The amount that the rates are uplifted by each year takes account of increases to statutory uplifts to the national living wage and a range of other factors. It is important to note that, separate to establishing the regional tariff rate, independent care providers are responsible for setting their own care home fees. Top-up fees, also known as third-party charges, are set by the independent care home providers at a level that they deem to be appropriate to reflect market prices. Neither my Department nor the health and social care trusts have any role in setting or calculating those fees. I do, however, recognise that the tariff rates may not be fully reflective of the true cost of care, and work is under way within the social care collaborative forum to consider how the commissioning and contracting of care home provision across Northern Ireland is currently delivered. Finally, a finance task and finish group has been established within that work stream to review existing finance issues. As part of that work, consideration is being given to the regional tariff, third-party top-up fees and enhanced care rates. The group will also consider the inclusion of clauses provided for enhanced care within the tariff.

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Minister. I call Alan Robinson to wind up on the amendment. Alan, you have five minutes.

Mr Robinson: Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. This is a very broad topic, so I will keep my comments very broad. It is one of the most important topics in the health structure, and it is a key pillar. How many times have we heard that if you fix social care, you begin to fix the wider health service?

We very much support the thrust of the motion in calling for action to transform our social care system since the 'Power to People' report was published back in 2017, but we were keen to submit an amendment for the reasons that my colleague Diane Dodds outlined. It has been seven long years since the report's 16 proposals were made, but critical issues outlined in that report and others thereafter remain unresolved. The expert advisory panel sought to make the case for transforming the way that the adult care and support system operates by way of 16 proposals, including valuing the professional and strengthening the support available to carers.

Our social care system is the backbone of our society, caring for the elderly, the vulnerable and those in need. However, as the motion states, workforce shortages, limited capacity in care homes and unacceptably long delays in accessing community care packages are leaving too many of our people without the high-quality care services that they need and deserve. It is safe to say that many unpaid carers are at breaking point, with one in four describing their mental health as bad or very bad. Several reports — some refer to review fatigue — state that we cannot continue to allow those gaps to persist.

In light of the ongoing challenges, I want to take a moment to recognise the incredible contributions of our front-line staff providers in community and voluntary sector organisations, particularly those who are unpaid, to whom I have just referred.

The system is under increasing pressure, with demand continuing to rise, which is due, in part, to an ageing population. However, social care is not just about older people; it is about the young man or woman with a learning disability who needs to move from a school setting into adult services; the elderly person who needs a care package to return home; and the person with mental health issues who requires support to move into supported living.

We can all give examples of cases from our constituency offices in which we have had to intervene. No family at the point of despair should have to come to our constituency offices and beg us to intervene. One case that stands out for me is from some years ago when I was a councillor. The daughter of an elderly lady had no respite and was so stressed, so broken and so guilty for feeling the way that she did that she attempted to take her own life. The daughter ended up requiring support, which put further pressure on the health service. That is the circle of despair that I have referred to in previous debates.

I am conscious of time, but I will turn to some of the comments from the debate. The proposer of the motion, Nuala McAllister, said that it was crucial that social care was properly supported. She also said that consultations were being used as mechanisms of delay. My colleague, Diane Dodds, in proposing our amendment, said that over 600 patients had had a needless stay in hospital, which was akin to locking the doors of the Royal Victoria Hospital. She referenced the need for better working conditions for domiciliary carers. The Chair of the Health Committee, Liz Kimmins, said that the unavailability of beds was creating a bottleneck in emergency departments. She said that she had never seen the scale of the challenges that are currently in the system.

Colin McGrath highlighted how the system is in crisis and said that we need action now. Diana Armstrong, whom I very much welcome to her new role, said that the system is far from perfect and that we need to get ahead of the game. Linda Dillon said that we face the same challenges since the 'Power to People' report was commissioned and that no family should have to choose between paying for care and paying for everyday items. Kellie Armstrong talked about her personal circumstances. It adds to the quality of debate in the Chamber when we talk about our own circumstances. She talked about the fear that older people live with and how they see themselves as a burden on the health service.

I thank the Minister for his contributions. He said that he understands the frustration at the pace of reform, and we all share that. He also referenced the importance of partnership working, recruitment and retention, and I thank him for that.

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: I call Danny Donnelly to conclude and make his winding-up speech on the debate. Danny, you have 10 minutes.

Mr Donnelly: Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank all those who spoke in the debate. We can agree that it was a constructive discussion on a very important issue. I will touch on the contributions of other Members shortly.

We have spent much time discussing the many pressures facing our health and social care services, and social care, specifically, is facing unprecedented pressures. That is a consequence of increasing demand and constraints around funding and workforce. Short- and long-term vacancies are increasing across all aspects of social care. One particular concern is the uncertain future facing many workers who have come from EU nations, following the UK's departure from the EU.

Funding shortages remain a significant concern, which provides another example of the unsustainability of our current funding model, as we have discussed on previous occasions in this place. We also need to acknowledge that more people live longer, which, while it is undoubtedly a good thing, increases demand on social care services. We need to adjust how we approach social care to accommodate that. It is estimated that, over the next 20 years, the number of people in Northern Ireland aged 65 and over will grow by nearly 50% and overtake the number of children in Northern Ireland for the first time. To tackle those challenges, we need to see the urgent prioritisation of the recommendations from the social care collaborative forum. That includes maximising capacity by testing new models and rolling out innovative digital solutions.

We also need urgent progress on the social care workforce strategy, the social care career pathways and the continuous learning framework. We must provide specific support to unpaid carers who, along with paid staff, provide an invaluable service to those most in need. The collaborative forum recommended an expanded carers register for Northern Ireland to provide more information for unpaid carers and to help to improve their outcomes. That should involve consideration of the complete review of the 2006 carers' strategy that our motion calls for, ensuring that the strategy's aims and objectives continue to deliver the necessary decisions to improve the lives and conditions of our carers.

Greater research into and investment in supported living are another priority outlined by the collaborative forum. A clear definition is needed, along with clarification of the services provided by HSC and community and voluntary services, with the intention of ensuring an interdependent approach to maximise the planning and delivery of social care services.

All of that must be urgently progressed. Unfortunately, we have not seen such progress from the Department of Health, as has been pointed out. Other Members raised the risk of the Department and the Minister focusing too much on consultation rather than delivery. In some respects, that has been a problem in the work of the Department and the collaborative forum.

I welcome the DUP amendment, which we will support. As other Members and I have outlined, the current funding arrangements are unfair and require urgent review.

I will now move on to Members' comments.

Nuala McAllister proposed the motion, noting that investing in domiciliary and community care is an early intervention action and that our social care workers must be supported. Noting the 2017 'Power to People' report, she said that little has changed since and suggested that consultation is delaying change. She asked, "When will we reach the point of action, and when will people see the benefits?". She mentioned third-party contributions and the impact on families of the outdated guidance. She also highlighted the need for a regional approach to data collection.

Diane Dodds moved the amendment, raising an issue that has come to her constituency office: delayed discharges and appropriate costs of care. She called the number of beds that are out of action for acute care an "obscenity", highlighting the fact that, in March of this year, 628 patients were needlessly in hospital, in some cases for long stays, which is equivalent to one large hospital and one small hospital closing their doors. She said that, if the Government and the powers that be do not value social care, why should anyone else? She also highlighted the potential for a price regulator, noting that families who are trying to pay top-ups are in desperation, and the need to improve carers' career opportunities. She asked the Minister for an update on the ability of independent care homes to reclaim VAT on expenditure in the same way as care homes elsewhere in the UK, which he delivered.

Liz Kimmins, Chair of the Health Committee, noted that the debate was similar to that on children's social care this morning. She referenced a recent visit to Northern Ireland Ambulance Service headquarters, highlighting the bottleneck in the system that results in failure to deliver safe and reliable care. Liz also pointed out that families wait months for care packages, which puts incredible strain on unpaid carers.

Colin McGrath talked about the lack of meaningful progress since the 'Power to People' report in 2017. He highlighted workforce shortages and long waits for support, stating that the system is in crisis and that the work of the social care collaborative forum is vital. He called on the Minister to bring forward key priorities and highlighted vacancy rates in social care. He asked where the new social workers would come from and called for a review of the 2006 carers' strategy.

Diana Armstrong talked about the importance of social care staff to older people and their families and to patient flow in hospitals. She noted that reforms are needed but that solutions are not solely dependent on funding, and she highlighted the importance of regulation of the independent sector.

Linda Dillon noted that the system is overstretched and underfunded and that, again, seven years since 'Power to People', the problems remain and are even worse in rural areas in Northern Ireland like her constituency of Mid Ulster. She highlighted the importance of collaboration in the community and voluntary sector and of a review of how it is funded, saying that independent price regulation is essential.

My colleague Kellie Armstrong gave us her personal history as a carer for her late brother and her father, and, as Alan noted, that strengthened the debate. She said that the population of older people in Northern Ireland who will need support is increasing. People are impacted by spending long times on waiting lists, particularly for things like hips and knees, and they are suffering unnecessarily. She also highlighted the fact that the Alzheimer's Association said that the social care system is not set up to care for people with dementia. She noted that unpaid carers save the health service a fortune but are struggling under extreme stresses and must be supported. She also pointed out that we need a carers register, which came up a few times.

Minister Nesbitt responded by saying that he understands the frustrations with the pace of reform and that the Department has established a social care collaborative forum that works on short-term solutions and long-term strategies. He spoke of the importance of improving social care as a career, and he mentioned the 'Care to chat?' podcast. He talked about how he is working towards our need to get to a sustainable workforce model. He highlighted the importance of ongoing cross-departmental work to support unpaid carers and talked of a review of social care standards that will be consulted on in due course. The Minister stated that social care reform remains a priority for him, and, on tariff rates, he said that work is under way to establish how social care is delivered.

In his winding-up speech, Alan Robinson made quite a statement when he said that, when you fix social care, you begin to fix the entire healthcare system. He talked about unpaid carers being at breaking point — again, that is familiar to most people across the Chamber and recalled the sad case of a constituent who had tried to take her own life.

Before being elected to this place, I worked in the health service as a nurse, and I have seen at first hand the effect of the overcrowding in hospital wards and A&E departments that results when patient flow is reduced. Wards that can be understaffed end up with extra patients being cared for in inappropriate corridor beds, where there is no emergency equipment and little dignity. Healthcare staff are unable to deliver the care that, they know, their patients need, and that causes undue stress and burnout.

A&E departments become so full of patients requiring admission to wards that they cannot take any more, and ambulances end up stacked outside for many hours with paramedics in the back caring for patients for sometimes their whole shift rather than being on the road attending calls. That results in long waits for ambulances in our communities. Members of the Health Committee who visited the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service will have spoken to paramedics. I was impressed by the paramedics' professionalism but concerned to see the extreme pressures on the service.

I will highlight research from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that suggests that there is strong evidence that, in 2022, 1,434 people died as a result of delays in Northern Ireland's emergency departments. That claim is backed up by evidence in the 'Emergency Medicine Journal' that suggests that, if you are waiting in an emergency room, you have a much higher chance of dying. Those 1,434 excess deaths in 2022 represent a shocking figure, and I am sure that we can all agree on that.

In conclusion, I encourage all Members to support our motion. We need to address the crisis facing our social care services. Everyone deserves the best outcomes, regardless of their background. The policy priorities have been outlined in previous reports and by other Members throughout the debate. We know what needs to be done, and it is time for action from the Department of Health.

Madam Principal Deputy Speaker: I ask Members to take their ease.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): I have received notice from the Minister for Communities that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that they must be concise in asking their questions. This is not an opportunity for debate, and long introductions will not be allowed.

Mr Lyons (The Minister for Communities): I wish to make a statement on the creation of additional jobs in Northern Ireland following an agreement to expand the services that the Department for Communities delivers in Great Britain on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. I am delighted to announce 1,000 new jobs that will bring a massive boost to the local economy. They are a testament to the quality of service being delivered by my Department.

This is a vote of confidence by the UK Government in the Department for Communities. It is a vote of confidence in the quality of people whom we are all proud to represent. Most importantly, it is a vote of confidence in Northern Ireland from the UK Government. The jobs will expand the workforce, delivering vital roles in areas such as universal credit, child maintenance and disability and retirement services. As many in the Chamber will know, the economic impact of that job creation will be felt most by our local economies. There will be better footfall in town centres, busier cafes and shops and more people using our public transport services.

Another successful outcome of this job announcement is that we will be able to fill underutilised office space. That will not only help with the sustainability and efficiency of our Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) assets but will allow us to hit the ground running on delivery without the need for significant upfront capital expenditure.

I am committed to greater regional balance. Rather than just talk about it, I have ensured that my Department delivers. I have ensured that we spread as many of the jobs as possible throughout Northern Ireland, and I am pleased to announce that over 40% of them will be outside Belfast — in Londonderry, Ballykelly and Ballymena. In Belfast, there will be 595 additional jobs; in Londonderry, an additional 270; in Ballymena, 116; and in Ballykelly, 27. When I came into office, I made clear my priority of supporting the work that my Department delivers in helping people into employment. That is a primary duty, a fundamental principle in tackling poverty and a cornerstone for any functioning society, and I am pleased to play my part in supporting it with the creation of these quality jobs.

Over 3,600 people in my Department are engaged in delivering services for the Department for Work and Pensions. That number will rise to 4,634 and represents an annual investment of £138 million. Those staff are making and will make an invaluable contribution daily, supporting citizens across the United Kingdom to access welfare, pensions and child maintenance services. My Department has a long-standing relationship with the Department for Work and Pensions, and I am pleased to announce the strengthening of that relationship with the creation of these jobs over the coming months.

I place on record my thanks for the sterling work of my senior management team and all front-line staff, who have ensured that we are the best equipped to deliver the services. In what has been a challenging number of months, I am delighted to deliver some positive news to the Assembly with these additional jobs. This is an unrivalled opportunity to provide skills and jobs for people in all parts of Northern Ireland, and I commend the statement to the House.

Mr Durkan: I thank the Minister for that refreshingly positive statement. How confident is he that we can fill all the posts, given that, according to the latest answer that we have received, there are nearly 700 vacancies in the Department for Communities? Have lessons been learned from a recent recruitment process that saw applicants locked out of online interviews?

Mr Lyons: First, I make the point that the jobs are being delivered by the Department for Communities on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. They are funded by the Department for Work and Pensions. The difficulty that we have had in Northern Ireland relates to budgetary issues. I do not think that I would have a problem filling the vacancies otherwise. It is not that the people are not there to fill the vacancies; they are not filled because we do not have the funding. This will be a separate funding stream from Westminster to deliver work on behalf of people elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

I am aware of the issues that have previously been of concern to those who applied. A significant number of candidates were unsuccessful, having experienced video or sound issues during the pre-recorded interview process. I know that those issues were raised with the Finance Minister, who, obviously, has responsibility in that area. I hope that we will not have the same logistical challenges this time round and that these jobs will benefit people in all the parts of Northern Ireland that I mentioned.

Mr Gildernew: I thank the Minister for his statement. The Minister has announced 1,000 jobs — I very much welcome that — but not one of those jobs is based in Tyrone, Fermanagh or Armagh. In my view, the Minister has missed a golden opportunity to create a more regionally balanced economy, which is an Executive commitment, and to open up Civil Service work to many rural areas west of the Bann. Will the Minister outline what factors he considered when deciding where to locate the jobs? At any stage, did he consider any locations in the three counties that I mentioned?

Mr Lyons: I welcome the fact that the Member has acknowledged that these are significant job numbers, that they are not all in the one location and that they are in different parts of Northern Ireland. I accept that many other places in Northern Ireland have not received jobs, yet. I might get a few more questions on that this afternoon, and I might hear more constituencies mentioned. However, in this process, we needed to find locations where there was underutilised office space that was in close proximity to existing service centres and had the capacity to stand up to the operational capacity that we are talking about.

I know that the people in Northern Ireland do a very good job, and I know that DWP is impressed with what we have been able to deliver so far. I hope that there will be opportunities for further expansion in the future, and I will do everything that I can to ensure that there are those sites available elsewhere. I hope that everyone in the Chamber will welcome this as a start.

Mrs Erskine: I thank the Minister for his statement. This is a starting opportunity. I appreciate what the Member across the Chamber has just said: I feel strongly about Fermanagh and South Tyrone, as well. I have mentioned the loss of the 300 BT jobs to the Minister. It is important that we have investment and employment opportunities. Will he consider and ensure that there will be further opportunities for Fermanagh and South Tyrone? What barriers do we need to work on removing to alleviate any problems and help him attract jobs to Fermanagh and South Tyrone?

Mr Lyons: I am grateful to the Member for her question, and for the fact that she also welcomes the announcement that has been made today. She is a dogged and determined representative for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and I knew that she would ask a question on this. She will have heard the answer that I gave to the Chair of the Committee in relation to locations. She also asked about the future. Absolutely. I hope that we will secure further jobs and that some will be able to go to Fermanagh and South Tyrone. The most important issue will be to ensure that we have the capacity for the jobs to be able to go there. There is also a wider piece of work for us to do throughout the Northern Ireland Civil Service to make sure that there is a fair distribution of jobs.

I will be more than happy to work with the Member and others to ensure that all areas of Northern Ireland can benefit from not just jobs in the Northern Ireland Civil Service that deliver for people in Northern Ireland but the provision of more and more services in Northern Ireland for people across the United Kingdom.

Ms Mulholland: I thank the Minister. I am delighted that he is bringing jobs to the best of the Antrim constituencies — it is great to see — but I take on board some of the other comments. What length of contracts are we talking about? Are they fixed term? Are they permanent? Do you know whether they will be a mix of part-time, full-time and zero-hour contracts? Is there a breakdown of those jobs?

Mr Lyons: First of all, I could not possibly agree with her first comment in relation to the best of the Antrim constituencies, but we will leave that conversation for another day.

I can confirm to the Member that there will be a mix of jobs: 70% will be permanent, and, because of the flexibility that is required, there will be some agency posts in there as well. I hope that the application process can start as soon as possible and we can get those jobs filled.

Mr Allen: I join the Minister and colleagues in welcoming this positive announcement. Minister, can you perhaps place on record for any of our constituents who may be watching what assistance your Department can provide to under-represented groups in our society — in particular, those with disabilities — who may want to apply for those jobs?

Mr Lyons: I am grateful to the Member for raising that issue. I was able to see at first-hand how the JobStart scheme has helped people to come into the Civil Service. Through that additional help and the work coaches that we were able to provide, we now have people working in the Civil Service who did not see it as a career option for them and thought that they would not have the ability or opportunity to do that. I am determined to ensure that we do everything that we can to make sure that people feel welcome to apply and that they have the help that they need to apply. The Member will be aware, as we have discussed this before, of my concern about the huge gap that exists in employment between those who are disabled and those who are not. We are working through that in the disability and work strategy. We will certainly do everything that we can, when the competition goes out, to ensure that people are aware of the jobs that are available and feel able to apply.

Mr McAleer: I welcome the announcement of £138 million per year to the local economy and an extra 1,000 jobs. That is great news and I welcome it, albeit I would like to see some of the jobs created for the west, for example, in Omagh, the county town of Tyrone. If you could keep that on your radar as well, it would be welcome.

Minister, you mentioned that the positions will be funded by DWP. Will there be any cost to your departmental budget in the creation of those 1,000 jobs?

Mr Lyons: No.

Mr Middleton: I thank the Minister for this positive announcement, and for his commitment to addressing the regional imbalance and to the Foyle constituency. I welcome the 270 jobs for Londonderry, which brings the number of jobs at Lisahally to 800. What will those jobs mean for the economy? What benefits will they bring to the wider north-west region?

Mr Lyons: I am grateful to the Member for his question. As he knows, 530 jobs exist there already, and that number will rise to 800. That will bring benefit to the economy. There are already people there bringing that benefit. Some additional capital work may be required to improve those sites. The money for that will come from DWP — there will not be any further cost to the Department — so there is some economic benefit in that regard. However, the greatest economic benefit will be the additional £30 million of salaries coming into the local economy. That will rise to around £150 million a year throughout Northern Ireland. That will be of significant benefit to his constituency, in particular, and we should all welcome that.

Ms K Armstrong: Thank you, Minister. I agree with Mr Allen and would like to see positive action for people with disabilities, care-leavers and the over-55s. Minister, will you clarify how many of the 1,000 jobs will replace agency workers? You know that the Committee has been concerned about that matter.

Mr Lyons: As I have said, we will have, roughly, a 70% permanent and 30% agency worker ratio, but those are exclusively in the DWP delivery. Some of the concerns that she and other Committee members raised were in relation to the wider DFC workforce that delivers in Northern Ireland for Northern Ireland. There will be a different figure for that. I know that some Members will not be happy that there are any agency workers at all, but a degree of flexibility is needed in the delivery of those services, which will, of course, be reviewed based on need. It would obviously be the preference to have more people in permanent roles, but that flexibility will be required.

Mr McHugh: Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas.

Minister, are you able to reassure me that this is not a case of "Live, horse, and you'll get oats" for the people of West Tyrone? In particular, when it comes to those new jobs Province-wide, is it the case that there will be less reliance on part-time and agency staff?

Mr Lyons: As I have said already, we need to have flexibility, so there will be agency staff, but there will also be some part-time roles. That is simply because it is what some of the workers will want, so it is important that we have that flexibility. There will be a full competition process, and people will be able to choose what suits them best, whether that be a permanent or part-time position. It is also the case that some people appreciate the work that they can get through agencies, because that provides them with flexibility. I recognise the concerns that people have raised, however.

Mr Robinson: I thank the Minister for his statement. I particularly welcome the 27 jobs that he has announced for Ballykelly, which is in my constituency of East Londonderry.

You will be aware, Minister, that Jubilee House in Ballykelly has significant capacity and boasts modern and cutting-edge technology. Are you able to give a commitment that you will work with Executive colleagues to ensure that that building is used to its full potential in order to give the region the maximum economic benefit?

Mr Lyons: That is absolutely what we want to see. There was significant investment in that site, and we want to make sure that it is utilised. There are currently 284 DFC employees delivering services on behalf of DWP, and that number will rise to 311. That is welcome, but, of course, we want to see the decentralisation of jobs where that is possible, and I will certainly be advocating that around the Executive table.

Mr Chambers: Minister, this is really good news today. Will the majority of posts to be recruited be at the basic Civil Service grades? Will the exercise create promotion opportunities amongst your current departmental staff?

Mr Lyons: Yes, there will always be the opportunity for people to progress, and Civil Service careers allow routes for progression. I do not have an exact breakdown of each grade, but the posts will create opportunities from administrative officer (AO) grade to grade 6, representing significant opportunities for people to get involved in the Civil Service.

Ms Á Murphy: Minister, are you able to outline how the new jobs will affect vacancy rates in your Department?

Mr Lyons: The jobs will not affect vacancy rates in the Department for Communities, because staff will be delivering services that will be paid for by DWP on its behalf to people in Great Britain. There will therefore be no impact on the vacancy rates in my Department. It is not that DFC vacancy rates are affected by a lack of staff but rather they are affected by a lack of money to hire those staff.

Mr Harvey: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I welcome today's jobs announcement. Every new job is always very welcome. Do you have any plans to seek further job opportunities, not least in my constituency of Strangford?

Mr Lyons: Absolutely. For the record, I will do my best for all 18 constituencies in Northern Ireland. There is an important point to make here, however. This morning, I had a meeting with Andrew Western, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transformation in the Department for Work and Pensions. He was very excited about coming here, because he had been told so many good things about Northern Ireland and its people. He told me that all he hears is that we are brilliant at those jobs. It is therefore very clear from officials and Ministers in the Department for Work and Pensions that Northern Ireland is the place to go in order to get staff who will do the jobs well. He said that DWP is really happy with the partnership. I hope that it is only the start and that we will get more jobs, and more jobs right across Northern Ireland, including in Strangford.

Mrs Dillon: Minister, I welcome these jobs and the fact that they are being dispersed, but many, particularly women in the Civil Service at those grades, are working to keep their jobs, particularly when their families are young. We are looking at reducing the cost of childcare. Is there the potential for people to work from home to reduce their childcare costs and make it worthwhile to work for the Civil Service? I speak as someone who was in that position for a long number of years.

Mr Lyons: I hope that it is worthwhile working for the Civil Service. Many feel that way. It is certainly what my private office staff tell me, anyway. [Laughter.]

It is important that we are as flexible as possible with our staff. Obviously, for training purposes in the beginning there might be a greater requirement, but these are hybrid roles as well and I recognise the flexibility that that brings, and we want to see that continuing.

Mr Bradley: Minister, a very welcome announcement indeed, especially in recognition of addressing regional imbalance. However, as the Minister is aware, I have highlighted the space available for his and other Departments in County Hall, Coleraine, to host circa 500 places in the building, not wanting to be left out in the constituency lobby that is prevalent around the Chamber. Will the Minister consider bringing new jobs to that site within the town curtilage in his next tranche of announcements?

Mr Lyons: I will make a special note for East Londonderry on my list. I am aware of the space that is available in County Hall. It is my understanding that there were a few difficulties with the layout, which meant that it was not possible this time around for the jobs that were available. I will certainly keep East Londonderry and Coleraine on the list for next time, and hopefully we will use that space. However, the Member, rightly, touches on the wider issue of making sure that we use the public-sector estate wisely. If there are other options and possibilities for other jobs in NICS, those should be pursued, and I am sure that the Member will do that.

Ms D Armstrong: Like others, I support and welcome the announcement of these jobs today. It is another good news story, which we need. However, in the same vein as my fellow MLAs from Fermanagh and South Tyrone, I ask the Minister about the recent loss of 300 skilled advisory jobs at BT in Enniskillen. That workforce had been recognised within BT as belonging to the best-performing region in the United Kingdom. Was there crossover engagement with Invest NI in identifying the location of those jobs, given that Invest NI assured my former colleagues on Fermanagh and Omagh District Council that it was working hard to find jobs for those who had been affected by the job losses at BT?

Mr Lyons: I do not believe that any conversation took place with Invest NI. I believe that the primary factors for location were underutilised office space and sites with sufficient capacity close to existing service centres. However, the Member, like Deborah Erskine, has rightly raised the issue of those staff and the many talented people in that constituency. I will do all that I can, along with Executive colleagues, to make sure that we have those jobs available for people in the Member's constituency and throughout Northern Ireland.

Mr Kingston: This is excellent news, and I congratulate the Minister and his officials for securing 1,000 jobs for Northern Ireland. It is excellent not just for those who will get those jobs but, as he said, for office rental and our local economy generally. Will the Minister give us an idea of the timescale? When is recruitment for these jobs likely to commence?

Mr Lyons: The recruitment processes will commence over the coming months. A number of recruitment processes have been launched by the Northern Ireland Civil Service within the past year, including an AO competition on 19 August. That will support the recruitment requirements for this expansion.

Mr Brett: I thank the Minister for his ongoing commitment to making Northern Ireland work and ensuring that Northern Ireland works for everyone. Can he give any further detail on the location of those jobs, particularly in Belfast? The location of those jobs is important, but many of the inner-city communities and constituents whom I represent, while they play host to the large office blocks, tend not to benefit from the employment opportunities. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that those from less-well-off backgrounds or socio-economically challenged areas have equal opportunity when it comes to those jobs?

Mr Lyons: Yes: absolutely, I can. The Member is a passionate representative for his constituency and, particularly, for dealing with deprivation. We know that one of the ways in which we can deal with deprivation and poverty is to get people into secure long-term employment. I want to ensure that those jobs and any others that come forward in Northern Ireland are available to all those who need them. I will certainly play my part in that. We will make sure that we do everything that we can so that people are aware of those jobs, are able to apply for them, and, where necessary, are given help or have reasonable adjustments made for them.

The jobs in Belfast will be based at Great Northern Tower, Castle Court and Goodwood House. That will bring the number of jobs in Belfast from 2,556 to 3,151. Overall, that means that, in Northern Ireland, we will go from having 3,626 DWP jobs to having 4,634 jobs. Those numbers represent people from Northern Ireland in Northern Ireland delivering benefits and welfare to people in other parts of the United Kingdom. We are doing that because we are good at it. That is why I believe that we will have more employment in the future.

Mr McMurray: Does the Minister have any indication as to how long the contract with the Department for Work and Pensions will last for those jobs?

Mr Lyons: There will be, at a minimum, a five-year contract of commitment by DWP. It is worth noting, however, that we have been delivering services for DWP since 1993. That says something about the expertise and skills of the people whom we have here in Northern Ireland. I can assure the Member that, now that we have those jobs, we will not let them go. I will do everything that I can to ensure that they stay and that we get more; maybe even some for South Down.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): I thought that you were going to say South Antrim there, Minister.

Mr Gaston: Minister, I welcome the significant announcement of 1,000 jobs for Northern Ireland. I particularly welcome that 116 new jobs are coming to Ballymena. One of the most common complaints that I get from constituents is about the lack of a face-to-face service when they are dealing with those who administer benefits. Will you confirm whether any of the new jobs that are being created will increase face-to-face interactions with service users?

Mr Lyons: You will have to give me a moment, Mr Deputy Speaker, because, in the decade that I have known Mr Gaston, I do not think that I have ever received a compliment from him. [Laughter.]

Should we all just take a moment to acknowledge and cheer that? I am glad that he has recognised that it is good news and that it is good news for his constituency.

Obviously, in this circumstance, where we are delivering jobs in Northern Ireland to provide a service for people in other parts of the United Kingdom, it will probably be a little difficult for people to travel from Burnley, London or Glasgow for the face-to-face time that the Member mentioned. The most important thing is that, when people need those services, they are as accessible as possible. Today, I visited people who are doing those jobs at the Great Northern Tower. They were talking directly to people on the phone, not just on a computer screen. Obviously, we want to get people online as much as possible, because it is cheaper, easier and quicker to deliver services in that way, but there will be telephone support as well. Certainly, when DFC is delivering additional help to people in Northern Ireland, we must make that as accessible as possible. That happens in jobs and benefits offices, but, for the specific jobs that we are discussing today, it not likely or possible that we will have the face-to-face contact that the Member described. We should, however, celebrate and welcome the fact that those jobs are coming to Northern Ireland.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): That concludes questions on the statement.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): In conjunction with the Business Committee, the Speaker has given leave to Carál Ní Chuilín to raise the matter of social service vacancies in North Belfast and West Belfast. Carál, you have up to 15 minutes.

Ms Ní Chuilín: Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

At the outset, I acknowledge that the Minister has had a day of talking about social care, but he is up for it, so he will be grand.

This debate is not about criticising social services. If anything, I am trying to make a case for getting additional workers into both constituencies. It is also about trying to get answers to how the recruitment and retention of social workers to fill the gaps in North Belfast and West Belfast will be achieved. I am sure that, having prepared for the debate, Members may have some of the information that I will set out.

In February, I asked the Department how many vacant posts there were for child and family social workers, disability social workers and out-of-hours social workers in North Belfast and West Belfast. The response from the Department was that there were 72 vacancies for child and family social workers; seven for disability social workers in children's services; two for disability social workers in adult services; and none for out-of-hours social workers. That was a total of 81 vacant posts.

In May, I asked a further question of the Minister, which was that he detail his Department's plans to recruit, given that there were 81 gaps in February. The Department responded by saying that health and social care trusts had undertaken a large recruitment exercise to recruit 200 newly qualified social workers and that the Belfast Trust intended to appoint approximately 60 newly qualified social workers throughout the summer. Minister, I ask that, in responding to the debate, you say whether those 60 posts have been filled. If they have been filled, can you say in which field they have been filled? If you cannot, I am sure that you can provide any additional information in writing. I appreciate that you do not always have these things to hand.

The Minister has said that he wants to end inequalities in health and social care. The topic of the debate is an example of where some of the biggest inequalities have persisted. Some of our most vulnerable families face additional pressure due to not having access to much-needed expertise and support when they need it most. One example that is persistently raised with me is unallocated cases. That concern is constantly raised with me by my constituents. For example — I will touch on this further later — during COVID, people worked steadily and at pace. When kids went back to school following that, however, the number of children who were brought forward and deemed as being at risk had severely increased. For a lot of those children and families, cases had not been allocated simply because the staff were not there in sufficient numbers.

As the Minister and all Members will appreciate, when families are contacted by social services, it causes fear and panic. Some may expect it, but most do not. That is a fact. When that contact is made and the case has not proceeded, it places additional pressure on the people who made the referral in particular, but also on the social workers. For most cases, there is a resolution, which is worked out in conjunction with the families, social services and others who provide support. The delay in getting an allocated social worker causes an awful lot of stress. That is not down to the social workers: it is down to workforce planning.

The Minister will be aware that, in May and June, social workers were out on strike. Some were on strike because of the pressure, but some were on strike because of issues around safe staffing and safeguarding legislation, which we desperately need. For the most part, their main concern was that they felt vulnerable. A lot of the stuff, such as other issues around terms and conditions and workforce planning, was, largely, unresolved due to staff shortages, sickness and the lack of pace in recruitment and, even more so, with retention.

I remind us all that the work that our community and voluntary sector undertakes to support some of the most vulnerable families is an integral part of the overall support. I would be shocked if you did not hear that during today's debates. As mentioned, since COVID and the return to school proper, there was an increase in support, which shows that safeguarding is working. Again, however, the system is trying to catch up. The community and voluntary sector worked in partnership with child and family teams to support families by providing fuel, food, counselling, emotional support and some short-term stopgaps. That was not always done through family support hubs, but they were critical. The issue needs to be sorted.

I know from my experience in North Belfast that the complexity of the issues that families are dealing with are deepening. You could have an elderly parent, alcohol and addiction issues or issues with waiting for children to be assessed. The list goes on. Therefore, the wrap-around support that is needed is more complex. Social workers, in my experience in North Belfast, have been integral in helping with that multi-agency approach, but I can see that they are exhausted. I see people who are already stretched trying to do their very best. Regrettably, throughout the summer in our constituency, as well as in West Belfast, we witnessed some very young children and young people getting involved in rioting and antisocial behaviour. It is regrettable that some of those children will go through the criminal justice system. When children are brought together through that multi-agency approach, that is normally when those interventions work. Some of those families are also involved in kinship arrangements, or they care for family members or provide, as I mentioned, care and support for vulnerable people. That is critical. The social worker is the linchpin in all that success.

You have heard about the lack of respite and support generally for families with children with disabilities. We all know that that is unacceptable. There is a lack of support for them when they are getting the initial social services contact and support thereafter, and they feel unsupported and alone. We need to talk about that when we look at the issue, and I know that that has been at the centre of debates today.

The issue for us is that children and families in North Belfast and West Belfast are living in persistently high levels of deprivation and inequality. The additional inequality is compounding the sense that there is a need for a whole-system approach and that, unless we get that fixed, there is just a constant cycle of misery. Nobody wants that at all.

There are unintended consequences. For example, providing sponsored day-care places is an initiative where social services, in partnership with day-care providers, try to help families to get children minded so that some of the parents or carers can get some support, counselling, parenting skills or whatever. There were not enough staff to make the referrals, so those children did not get the day-care places that they needed. The day-care places that were secured for social services went amiss, which has resulted in the day-care providers having to almost block-book because they cannot afford to lose those places. That was all because of staff sickness and people who were genuinely sick and perhaps even burnt out. It was not that there was no engagement: it was that that essential cog was missing.

There is another example of unintended consequences that have a direct impact on the vulnerable. When they are not there and there are concerns about children who are vulnerable or are at risk, what happens to that vulnerability and risk? Even working with the PSNI, the community and voluntary sector, youth services and social services, it is really hard to get people engaged, but, once they are engaged, there is normally a positive outcome. I would like to know how the gaps — the 81 vacant social worker posts — have been filled. If they have not been filled, what is the plan?

I take the opportunity to commend our youth services in particular and our family support hubs. They go above and beyond in North Belfast, and I know that it is the same for West Belfast, because they all work across the community and help each other out. They are keeping kids safe but keeping them well. They are the agencies that have advocated, along with social services, to have better outcomes for the kids, because that is what it is all about. It is about having better outcomes.

I will finish by repeating that our social services and our social workers need our support. They do not need us to pay tribute to them. They need us to pay them; they need us to look after them; they need us to introduce the legislation, guidance and protection that will ensure that they will be looked after. I am really concerned and surprised that there have not been any serious adverse incidents (SAIs) up until now, not because of any mistakes that they have made but because of the pressure that they are under. The pressure is increasing, and the supply of workers is not there. We need that to be resolved.

I pay tribute not just to social workers but to people who, as we speak, will be out, going above and beyond to make sure that those who are the most vulnerable are safe and protected and get the support that they need. While it is about gaps in social services in North Belfast and West Belfast, in the end, it is all about making sure that our residents, constituents and families and friends will have better outcomes than they currently have.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): Thank you very much. All subsequent Members who are called to speak will have up to four minutes.

Mr Kingston: I thank Carál Ní Chuilín for bringing the matter to the House, and I thank the Minister for his attendance. I have been liaising with the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust on the matter and asking questions to get a true picture of the situation. I am not here to be a spokesperson, but I will relay some of the information that it has supplied to me. It said that the trust continues to be challenged in the recruitment and retention of social workers in the main and that that is due to a deficit in supply regionally. We will all want to say how much we appreciate the challenging work that social workers undertake in many complex situations.

In the Belfast constituencies, it was not clear that there was a particular deficit of workers in North and West, compared with South and East. The figures that I received were not conclusive, but the trust accepts that vacancies are an issue, with workforce pressures, including long-term absence, compounded by demand and capacity issues in the social work workforce. The trust referred to a Department of Health workforce review, which indicated the need to commission an extra 60 student social work places in Northern Ireland universities. I understand that the Department has agreed to fund an additional 40 university places for the 2024 intake to the social work degree. Out of 238 social work degree graduates in Northern Ireland in 2024, 200 have been appointed across the five healthcare trusts in Northern Ireland, and 59 are in Belfast. That includes five who studied outside Northern Ireland and Great Britain and have returned to Northern Ireland. They are encouraging our students who go elsewhere to return.

Despite significant efforts and investment in bespoke recruitment, the trust continues to have a significant number of vacancies that remain unfilled, most of which are in critical children's community teams, as the Member indicated. Other than a small number coming through the Open University pathway this autumn, it acknowledged that there will be no significant additional supply of social workers in Northern Ireland until the next cohort of graduates in 2025. That presents a significant challenge.

The five health trusts are seeking approval from the Department to pay an exceptional recognition payment to all band 5, 6 and 7 social work staff who deliver gateway, family interventions and looked-after children's services across the five trust areas, recognising the complex work that is being undertaken.

I turn to what is being done. Again, I am told that the trust has established a social work recruitment and retention strategic group. The trust is maintaining compliance with the Department of Health's directive to cease all use of agency social workers. Other efforts are increasing supply, but that is limited. The trust is seeking to invest in staff well-being initiatives and to promote a flexible working policy. Obviously, it supports staff advancement and post-qualifying training programmes, and it recognises that retention is an issue. Children's services has recently established a specific recruitment and retention group chaired by a senior divisional social worker. It is looking at additional Open University places.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): Will the Member draw his remarks to a close, please?

Mr Kingston: Trust representatives attended the Manchester Jobs Fair to encourage applications from social workers who qualify in Great Britain. The trust also seeks to recruit social workers by looking internationally and among those living in Northern Ireland who have qualifications from elsewhere that could be recognised locally.

Miss McAllister: I thank the Member for securing the Adjournment debate. I read the two questions that the Member submitted, and I was in contact with the Belfast Trust, like many of the North Belfast and, no doubt, West Belfast MLAs who are here.

Today has been a day of discussions about health and social care, but we need to be particular in this debate about the reasons for vacancies in North and West Belfast. Members have discussed the poverty rates, and it is obvious that, where poverty rates increase, we will have more complex needs. That also makes us think that increasing the workforce in those areas should be a focused priority. Yes, those areas may require more social workers than other areas, but they also require greater focus on fixing the problems.

Ahead of the debate today and as part of ongoing engagement, we have had correspondence from the British Association of Social Workers. It provided a briefing. I will read out something that it said:

I highlight that because it is really important that we are explicit about the differences across Northern Ireland due to the links to poverty. Although I recognise that the Health Minister is here, it is not just his responsibility; it is the Communities Minister's responsibility as well. A number of weeks ago, we had an Adjournment debate on tackling poverty in North Belfast. It gives further weight to the argument that North and West Belfast need to be prioritised.

In the previous debate, the Minister recognised and highlighted the increase in training places. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be enough. Through engagement in our constituency offices, we hear that social workers who have had just one or two years' experience are now leading teams, particularly in certain divisions. That is not their fault; it is simply because they have no choice and cannot simply walk away. Some social workers now choose to work in the private sector, because doing so is more appealing and family-friendly. I do not doubt that a massive amount of effort and work is put in by individual social workers, but they are beyond capacity.

I will touch on Operation Encompass, which was rolled out by police. When a child has been present at a domestic violence incident, the police contact the school to let it know, so that it can put wrap-around care in place. Some contact that we have had with schools in North Belfast, particularly in working-class areas, suggests that, in many of those cases, the school does not know what happens beyond school because, again, there are unallocated places for social workers.

More burdens are placed on the educational system as well. I hear from teachers who have to ensure that those kids are, for example, not given homework because they do not want to cause tensions in the home. They are also bringing in extra food for those kids. They are aware that even some of those children do not have allocated social workers. Again, that is not the fault of individuals, but it brings further weight to the idea that North Belfast and West Belfast need a specific priority and focus. It has been the focus in the past few weeks when it comes to social care, and I look forward to hearing from the Minister about that area of prioritisation and what plans could be put in place.

Ms Flynn: I thank the Minister for coming to this afternoon's debate. I am conscious that we spent a couple of hours earlier debating children's social care services, and all the points that were made in the Chamber earlier are, of course, relevant now.

As Carál and Nuala outlined and as you know, Minister, North Belfast and West Belfast, the areas that we represent, sadly have some of the highest levels of deprivation in the North. Carál also mentioned the 81 vacancies that the Belfast Trust had as of summer 2024. I know that the Department was putting in place a recruitment process, and the hope was to recruit 60 new social workers. When the Minister responds to the debate, it would be great to get any update that he may have on that.

Regrettably, the feedback that we receive from social workers and families — I can speak only for West Belfast, but Carál and Gerry are here and others can speak for North Belfast — is that the situation is getting worse, hence the need for this afternoon's debate. It is really worrying that we hear directly from the mouths of social workers that "services are no longer safe". I do not think that warnings get any starker than that. It is really worrying. There was feedback related to the strikes that were held just before the summer, with social workers from the Belfast area saying that children's lives were being put at risk in the current circumstances. That is really worrying for all of us in the Chamber, and, hopefully, we can make some progress.

Given the situation that we are in and given all the limitations on the budget, there is definitely a role for cross-departmental working, and I know that the Department is looking into that. We need to seriously look at every option in the immediate term, given that social workers think that children's lives are at risk. Carál made the point: what are we waiting for? Are we waiting for the next SAI and something terrible happening to a child? We know that the system is broken. It is about how we can rectify the problem.

Carál mentioned that, like the rest of the health and social care system, social workers face burnout. We know that they work 50 to 60 hours per week and have additional stress, but, when I have spoken to social workers locally, they have told me that one of the biggest mental burdens is not even the additional hours and the excessive workload; it is the guilt and regret that they feel because they know that they are not meeting the needs of the people in the constituency who need help. They carry the mental burden that they are potentially not helping the people, families and kids who need help.

I will finish with some of the cases that I have been dealing with in my constituency. Some kids — some of them are really young — are dealing with really bad mental health issues and addiction issues. I am talking about kids who are really young. The social workers who work with them are, again, in fear that they are not able to give the cases involving those kids and those families the time that they want to give them. The other example is the families with children with learning disabilities whom you mentioned, and we must give credit to that BBC programme. One of those mothers is in my constituency of West Belfast. I wrote to the Minister about her and her son's case previously. Again, it is about how all those flaws in the system impact on the most vulnerable families and on the kids who need the help and support. I look forward to hearing the Minister's response.

Mr Carroll: I thank the Member for tabling the debate. The fact that the gap is 81 staff in North Belfast and West Belfast is pretty shocking. One gap is one too many, obviously. The fact that the gap is so large — close to 100 staff — shows that working-class communities in North Belfast and West Belfast are once again being failed, left behind and denied the services that they need to help them navigate the complexities and difficulties of life. I had not seen the answer to the Member's question for written answer beforehand, so I was shocked to hear those figures.

Given that social workers are overloaded with work, it probably amounts to hundreds of children and young people who are not getting the services and the support that they should get and to which they are entitled. Again, one young person not getting access to services is one too many, but, if hundreds of young people in North Belfast and West Belfast are not getting access to them, that is really concerning and troubling and something on which we should all be focused.

My concern is this: how many young people are falling through the cracks in the system? What is the knock-on effect on those who have been denied services, a social worker and support, with everything that that support entails? The Minister always talks about the importance of mental health: what is the knock-on impact on the mental health of young people, if they are denied services because of the high number of staff vacancies? Young people's development and that kind of stuff will be impacted on as well.

I share the Member's concerns about a possible SAI, if one has not happened already. Given that gaping hole in the number of staff working with vulnerable people and given that, as I said, people are falling through the cracks, I am concerned about a potential scandal or SAI emerging down the line. That really should focus minds.

As I said earlier, social workers have been out on strike over the past year and longer. I have stood with them in the Whiterock and Shankill areas. To repeat, they are in dispute with the trusts. They demand a recognition payment, a career pathway and a caseload ceiling. All of that is relevant to what we are talking about now. Some people feel that the sector is not appropriate for them, given the pressure that they are under. The Minister also needs to look at the domiciliary care sector and at the fact that so much domiciliary care is privately, not publicly, provided. People should not make money and profit from the provision of care.

Finally, we need to tie the Budget into all of this. The Minister's party has raised points and concerns about the Budget not being appropriate. The Budget also does not meet the needs of working-class communities more generally. It exacerbates deprivation, which will lead to more people needing social workers and using the care and support sectors. We therefore need to talk about what the Budget does not do for social work and about the knock-on pressures and problems that it will create for North Belfast and West Belfast in particular.

Mr McGrath: Obviously, I am from South Down, but, if there is any Adjournment debate in which I feel that I can participate, I will do so. As the son of a Clonard woman and an Ardoyne man, I think that I get to speak on an issue in North Belfast and West Belfast.

The SDLP supports the Adjournment topic and the issues that have been highlighted. We recognise that there are a massive number of vacancies, which Members have mentioned. I will highlight the fact that such a high level of vacancies across social services in the area can create a continuing problem. The fewer staff there are, the more pressure there is on those who are there. Those jobs become less attractive, and people then leave.

It would be good to hear whether the Minister has a human resource plan to respond to a staffing crisis. A crisis will beget a crisis that will continue to impact on the area. Having worked for many years in diocesan-based youth services that have youth centres across North Belfast and West Belfast, I am aware from those staff — I continue to hear this from them — of the problems and the scale of the issues for the young people with whom they work. There is a real issue on the ground and a real problem in responding to it. That is the sort of cocktail that will lead to problems. As Mr Carroll said, it could ultimately lead to some very dangerous outcomes, and it will be some of our vulnerable young people or our elderly people who will be impacted on.

I also want to raise the fact, given that it has been mentioned, that we have had a number of debates today on similar issues, so the issues are a bit repetitive. This is something that I mentioned earlier: if we are going to move into a phase where we have an adult protection Bill, multidisciplinary teams (MDTs) continuing to roll out, the Adoption and Children Act and learning and disability frameworks, there is going to be an even greater emphasis on the recruitment of social workers and that is, inevitably, going to divert some away from the roles that they are in at the minute, because there are just not enough social workers to cover the patches as it is. If we have this greater need for even more social workers, they are going to be spread even thinner on the ground, and it is the more stressful roles that social workers are going to want to exit from to take up the new roles. The British Association of Social Workers, as an example, constantly says that there are not enough people in training and there are not enough funded places for the training of social workers, which means that we are not actually replacing a depleted workforce. All roads lead to the fact that there are going to be continuing pressures and we really need to see some sort of resolution.

I look forward to hearing from the Minister who, I am sure, will be aware of the issues and no doubt will be able to give us an update on what the Department is doing.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): Minister, you have up to 10 minutes.

Mr Nesbitt (The Minister of Health): Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. I thank Carál Ní Chuilín for bringing forward this matter. It is important, particularly for that geographical area. She challenged me about the 81 vacancies and 60 being put in place. I am going to try to meet it, but we might need to speak off-line because I might not be comparing like with like.

First, by way of context or background, there are around 6,600 registered social workers in Northern Ireland. The trusts are, of course, by far the largest employers: they have 4,800. The Belfast Trust has the highest number in post, and that is around 1,120 more generally. To come to the question that Carál Ní Chuilín has put to me: I signed off a letter to her earlier today. It is about a response on the number of vacant social worker posts for child and family, disability and mental health for North Belfast and West Belfast. In band 6 social worker vacancies, the Belfast Trust says that — it is very specific — in mental health, there is one; in disability, there is one; in children's community services, in whole-time equivalents, there are 19·3; and in children's homes, there are 13. My maths suggests that that is 24, and if we take that off the 81, it suggests that 57 vacancies have been filled. However, I accept that I might not be comparing like with like, and I am very happy to discuss it in a moment.

I understand and very much appreciate that all the trusts have been experiencing high levels of vacancies and other types of absences in recent years. Members have correctly identified the chief reasons for that. However, due to a range of actions taken already, some of which I will outline, the regional vacancy rate for all social worker posts has, thankfully, been falling, but that does not mean that the problem is resolved. I will set out the context, because it is important to note that, due to the way in which social work services are delivered, which is mostly in small local teams, any absences from those teams, whether through illness or long-term leave or because of vacancies, mean that there is a much greater burden on the staff who remain at work. I acknowledge that fact and pay tribute to all our social workers who deliver services to adults, families and children every day, but I also accept what Carál was saying. They do not want people to pay tribute: they want people to pay them and give them the correct terms and conditions of employment, which include a certain work-life balance and a recognition that there are appropriate and inappropriate stress levels, and that we ask too much of people. As I have said repeatedly, our health and social care services are delivered by dedicated and committed staff, and we should be proud of them.

With regard to Belfast in particular, I can inform Members that there are currently 41 vacant social work posts in the trust, of which 32 are in children's services and a further nine in adult services. That is for the trust in particular. There are also 21 social work posts in teams providing services to children with a disability, and six of these are vacant. I am assured by the Belfast Trust that it is actively seeking to fill all its current vacancies. However, we know that there is a limited pool of potential candidates available. My Department recognises that we need to train more social workers in Northern Ireland, and, to that end, we have been steadily increasing the number of commissioned student places in recent years. The baseline in 2021 was 260 places. That went to 285 in 2023 and to 325 this year. I secured the funding for those additional 40 places this year in response to the need for more social workers, but I should say that that increase is for one additional cohort only. So, given the increasing demand for social workers, particularly as new services develop and legislation is introduced, I hope that I can make a strong case for recurrent funding.

That brings me to the actions that have been, and are being, taken to stabilise the social work workforce, which is as important as increasing overall capacity. In 2020, the Department commissioned a review of the social work workforce in Northern Ireland, which reported in 2022. The Department now has in place a social work workforce implementation board, which was established following the publication of the social work workforce review. Led by the Chief Social Worker, the membership of the board includes key stakeholders in social work, and its aim is to provide the leadership and accountability that is needed to ensure the development and stabilisation of the social work workforce. Reform plans in place for social work include, for example, the production of a 10-year attract, recruit and retain plan that is aimed at maximising attraction into social work training; the implementation of an effective recruitment process; the development of strategies to improve the rates of retention; a growth in the number of social work training places by as much as funding allows; a continuation of the fast-track recruitment route for future cohorts of newly qualified social workers; and the establishment of an evidence base for safer staffing to develop regional guidance.

The social work workforce review made several key recommendations that are now being actioned. In December 2022, as a first and highly significant step towards reform, the Department, in collaboration with the trusts, took the decision to cease the use of recruitment agencies to fill trust vacancies by the end of June 2023. At that point, there were in excess of 200 recruitment agency social workers employed in the trusts, some of whom had been working that way for years. That growing trend of agency usage caused a degree of instability in the workforce. It also hampered the building of meaningful relationships, which, of course, is the essence of good social work. All the social workers who were employed by recruitment agencies were then given the opportunity to apply for substantive posts, and the vast majority did so. I am glad to say that no social workers in the trusts are now employed by a recruitment agency, which has been key to allowing the other reform measures to go ahead.

At the same time, early in 2023, the Department sought to introduce a much more streamlined approach to recruiting the 240 to 250 newly qualified social workers who graduate from our universities each year. I am pleased to say that, in 2023, that resulted in 208 newly qualified social workers joining the trusts. So far this year, 206 have taken up permanent contracts in trusts. A further 14 newly qualified social workers are going through pre-employment checks, and I hope that they will start in the coming weeks. In 2023, the Belfast Trust recruited 59 of the overall cohort of newly qualified social workers: 36 went to posts in children's services, 26 of whom went to children's teams in North Belfast and West Belfast. This year, the total intake in Belfast was slightly lower, with 50 newly qualified social workers: 34 went into children's services, with 28 of those going into children's teams in North Belfast and West Belfast. So, in the past two years, the Belfast Trust has managed to attract 109 newly qualified social workers into post: 70 are employed in children's services, of whom 54 have gone into vacancies in North Belfast and West Belfast.

Mr Brett: I thank the Minister for giving way and providing those details. As the Minister may be aware, North Belfast is also covered heavily by the Northern Trust. Does the Minister have any information about vacancies in the Northern Trust, which also covers part of the North Belfast constituency?

Mr Nesbitt: I am afraid that I do not have the information that the Member is seeking, but we will certainly try to get that for him in the days ahead.

In the limited time that I have remaining, I will move on to the issue of industrial action, which some Members referred to. Productive discussions have been ongoing, but some issues remain unresolved. I recognise the workforce and the workload pressures in social work services, which, as Carál Ní Chuilín suggested, may be connected to safe staffing. The Chief Social Worker has published an initial report, 'Safe Staffing in Social Work Research and Policy Development', and, between September and November, discussions are taking place about that.

The key issues that I want to address are particularly, for example, the composition of social work caseloads in relation to the levels of staff experience. As I said, there are acceptable levels of stress in any job, but there are also unacceptable levels of stress. If social workers feel that they are not competent, well-trained and experienced enough to tackle the caseload that they are being asked to take on, that is counter-strategic. It is not good for the delivery or the individual.

Finally, I was in North Belfast earlier today. I started the day at the Girdwood hub where I again made the point that, if you take a map of the Troubles hotspots and overlap it with a contemporaneous map of health issues, particularly mental health and well-being, you have a match. The match is in places such as North Belfast, and I am committed and determined to do something about that.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Dr Aiken): Thank you, Minister, and thank you to everyone who participated in the debate.